Submitted 1 year ago by L4s@lemmy.world [bot] to technology@lemmy.world
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/scientists-develop-mega-thin-solar-111500487.html
Scientists develop mega-thin solar cells that could be shockingly easy to produce: ‘As rapid as printing a newspaper’::These cells could be laminated onto various kinds of surfaces, such as the sails of a boat to provide power while at sea.
“mega-thin”? Is that like “micro-large”?
Pepperidge Farm remembers when journalists had a grasp of the language.
They should have just used “hella-thin”.
Or “wicked thin” for the New England audience.
Lol I thought the same thing on first read. Then again “micro thin” skins redundant…
“It has a large amount of thinness” Mega-thin is fine lol. I do like hella-thin though
This kind of affordable tech has been promised as “about to hit the market” since 2003. I’ll believe it when I see it on the market.
Since 1975, which is as far back as I can remember with this stuff.
I’m sure my parents would say the same.
bro i can run LED lights by putting wires inside my body
Kinky.
was thinking the same thing. this printing press solar has been demoed and showed off for literial decades. and yet it just never seems to materialise in any meaningful fashion.
This has its own applications but I can’t say I’ve ever heard anyone complain about thickness of solar panels. Efficiency, power generated, etc. Sure.
I don’t think it’s so much about thickness, but being super thin presumably means it requires less of a manufacturing process and also less raw materials. Could bring costs down on panels and make them more financially viable for projects.
On top of that, could make them viable for other surfaces that might not have been a good fit for them with current tech
Indeed, 44 lbs for an 8kw installation is very light.
Although the cells can only generate half the energy per unit area compared to traditional silicon panels, they can generate 18 times more power per kilogram, Fast Company reported.
For most users, I’d guess that unit area is more important. But for satellites, I suppose that as long as they can unfold, space isn’t really an issue. You’ve got all of outer space to spread out into. But weight determines a lot of the cost of putting the thing up in space, so you’d like that to be low.
If they’re cheap enough, you can just slap them on any available surface that gets a marginal amount of light. Doubly so if they’re flexible.
For anything other than house roof solar price per kw is going to be the deciding factor. Rural land is very cheap compared to solar panels - we’re talking about a 100:1 cost ratio.
Weight does play a huge role for satellites and to be honest I have very little knowledge of solar panels they use. However since solar sail is a thing, I’d argue surface is indeed a factor with satellites. But perhaps they managed to get some use there. There might be even other use cases I just didn’t think about. My original comment was mostly pointing out that thickness was rarely as big of an issue as it was efficiency.
Also I can’t imagine you’d want to add too much extra weight to a skyscraper
Use cases increase if they are thin. Instead of limited to rooftops. For example, take a look at what Aptera is doing.
Burning imvestor money on a DOA meme product just like Lightyear One did?
Clearly you’ve never owned an air fryer wanted a solar powered car.
Those all sound like efficiency issues still. Covering any form of transportation with solar panels is primarily pointless because of how little power that would generate. Even if you covered every available inch with the most efficient panels invented, it would take over two weeks of sitting in full, direct sunlight to charge a solar-powered car, which you would drain in four hours of driving.
solar farm on a stick
Also known as a “flag”
First, the thickness factor plays into flexibility. Just imagine surfaces of every shape being covered in solar cells. Flexible panels could also be less prone to breakage.
Second, with “as rapid as printing a newspaper”, this might be a major cost-reduction thing, even on top of the process needing less high-pure Si material.
This might make solar power generation more attractive even if the efficiency would be lower than other methods, because this would drive the ratio $/kw down.
Kind of like these? Flexible solar panels are not a problem. And no, being newspaper thin will never be stronger than mounted on rigid surface. If it bends it has a definite limit in number of times you can bend it.
As for “printing a newspaper” and rapid production, when I see it I’ll believe it. At the moment it’s nothing more than speculation as they themselves have not made it yet. Every manufacturing process starts slow and then speeds up as process is optimized. The problem is whether there is a financial incentive to start producing in the first place.
Bulky, heavy, stiff, …
Which would all be a valid concern if you had to carry them all the time or bend them. There are flexible solar panels which you can glue on roof of your boat or car though.
AFAIK this was previously developed about 5 years ago in Australia at the University of Newcastle Engineering Dept.
Not sure why this lot is claiming credit for it.
It’s a different process. Multiple processes with varied applications are absolutely essential to making this style of solar the norm
It’s a great thing that this particular field continues to see innovation.
New process
Scientists used electronic printable inks, using a technique similar to how designs are printed on t-shirts. As these thin solar cells are difficult to handle and can tear easily, scientists searched for a lightweight, flexible, and resilient material that could adhere to those solar cells. The fabric they chose was Dyneema Composite Fabric, a material known for its incredible strength.
After printing the electrodes on a flat sheet of plastic, they glued the sheet of plastic on Dyneema. Lastly, they peeled away the fabric, which has picked up the electrodes, leaving a clean sheet of plastic behind.
Your linked process:
The organic solar cells being deployed have been printed on laminated polyethylene terephthalate (PET) plastic by a printer formerly used for wine labels.
The 18 metre long ultralight and ultraflexible strips are similar in thickness and appearance to a chip packet, the university team have said.
Ok thanks. I see the difference. It was a late night knee-jerk defensive post.
The fabric they chose was Dyneema Composite Fabric
As a fabric geek with a cut/sew shop working on marine canvas, this gives me a raging boner. The panel making process might be cheap but I’ll tell you dyneema fabric isn’t. Bet there’s great mark-up on it though! 🤑
We do love “discovering” other peoples things and claiming they’re “the new _____”
An Edison tradition.
I’ll believe it when I see it.
You guys realize that this is a significant step towards having moving pictures like in Harry Potter right?
please elaborate
I too have a bridge to sell you!
I love when people act like progress never happens, we’re in a world where developments happen so fast it’s impossible to keep up with a single field of development because so much new stuff is happening but sure anyone interested in the emergence of printable pv is a rube…
I see the same in ai discussion, I use it when coding all the time but every article about a new development has someone saying it’s useless and a gimmick.
Rapid deployment solar is happening whether you like it or not, the science has been building for a couple of decades and every interesting new study and development opens up new avenues of possibility. This will be a game changer in many situations and it’s something we can see getting closer, studies like this are so interesting because we can see which avenues things are likely to take and consider how it would affect things.
We have a tendency to think of science as someone waking up and inventing something and then it’s ready to hit the shelves but it’s never worked like that. If you’d been reading the news when photography was new you’d see endless news stories about progress towards colour photography, about potential methods and means of a making a single plate colour image - famously you’d have also seen discussions in the letters section of the Times between some of the chemists that’d go on to actually solve it.
Progress happens, science happens - sure you don’t care that they found a way of transferring printed solar onto fabric which avoids the need for the fabric to be able to endure the entire fabrication process but it’s actually a pretty cool thing. The article is kinda dumb I really don’t think this process will hold up to the intense sea air and mechanical stress of being a sail but for simpler uses such as an awning cover over carparks or even better train lines its likely to be very useful - imagine being able to generate the power for electric vehicle charging or train travel simply from a fabric roof which also shades the area from hot sun.
A process that makes the current chemistry cheap and fast to print onto a useful material is a big thing, not as huge as extending the working life of the materials but by being easier to make and replace we might find that there are a lot of uses for rapid temporary deployment of PV in situations like disaster zones but also in seasonal infrastructure which is especially important for things like music festivals, holiday locations (which see power usage vastly increased when tourists are in town), and travel routes.
Yeah, you’re missing the point that this is a shouting headline that I’ve read about 50 times in the past ten years at least. Progress happens, I’m sure, I neo t say it doesn’t. This, however, is sensationalist bullshit, not progress.
I would imagine it could only be useful for 30 minutes before the cell would be unusable. Arent solar cells just P-N junctions where if it is really thin it would just run out of holes to fill?
By your logic all solar panels would run out of these holes after a certain period of use?
They might be right for other reasons though. I once worked at a lab where they were doing r&d on this sort of thin solar cells, and their stability and longevity was the #1 biggest problem. They worked great inside those anaerobic box thingies in the lab, but they degraded to nothing very quickly upon first contact with real atmosphere.
I like them thicc
What? Newspapers not rapid. They are printed only once per day because of all the writing and editing that’s required. Do it any faster and you’ll end up with lot’s of typos and factual errors.
The printing is fast.
masterspace@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
If it’s shockingly easy to produce then just do it and write a declarative headline that doesn’t need to use the word “could”.
NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I mean, even if it’s easy to do, that doesn’t mean a manufacturing process is easy to ramp up. You need equipment to produce it, and people to do it. Logistics of that isn’t like just turning on/off a light switch.
frezik@midwest.social 1 year ago
Some people have never tried getting a product to market before, and it shows.
masterspace@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
Yes, my point is that I’m tired of these bullshit headlines that are implying that we have some great breakthrough, unless their scientific discovery also accounts for everything you listed, it’s not a breakthrough and we the public don’t need to hear about it.
BearOfaTime@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I love shows like How It’s Made, you get to see the Rube Goldbergian systems that produce stuff we take for granted.
KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
To echo the other individual who replied, it’s shockingly easy to make injection molded parts, but there is usually a long process before you bring the final product to market. And that’s with all the manufacturing processes already existing at scale.
In this case, the processes need to be fleshed out from scratch, which adds even more time to the ramp up. So even if the headline is 100% accurate, and there are no other roadblocks, it would still take a significant chunk of time to bring to market.
BearOfaTime@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Time, money, man hours, etc, etc. All while still figuring out how to make it at scale and be able to sell it a a price that enables you to continue the business.
It’s hard stuff, for sure.
Meowoem@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Yeah, how dare they report on science and technology - I’ve barely seen a dozen articles about Will Smith’s personal life today, we don’t have resources to waste talking about successful research projects from MIT!
When MIT get in a salacious romance scandal then they can have a bit of our precious media space but get the fuck out of here with your science bullshit nerds.
PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
For a while I was celebrating when I didn’t see Taylor Swift’s name in either the sports or entertainment heading on google news. And each heading only showed three headlines.
masterspace@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
This isn’t science, this is engineering, and it’s crappy engineering at that.