I’ve just realised, I can’t post anything in lemmy.ml
So, I checked lemmy.ml/modlog, there’s a new moderator.
All posts and comments talking about China, Jinping, Russia, and Putin have been deleted and users banned
[deleted]
Is lemmy.ml turn into authoritarian?
Submitted 9 months ago by throws_lemy@lemmy.nz to fediverse@lemmy.world
Comments
skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl 9 months ago
jscummy@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
A meme I just saw mentioned Tiananmen Square on lemmy.ml, the comments were an absolute dumpster fire
ClumZy@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
Fuck these tankies man. I’m as leftist as they come and I HATE what these people are doing to the cause. We want healthcare and equal rights, and these loonies are dragging us all down with their fascination for those horrible fascist regimes (it takes 2 braincells to realize the CCP is 1984 incarnate).
OpenPassageways@lemmy.zip 9 months ago
I’m at the same time horrified and fascinated by them. I saw a comment that accused NATO of causing he war to “drag on”. When I brought up that Russia could just leave, I got people unironically replying that Ukraine was the aggressor in the war and that it was Ukraine committing genocide and attacks on civilians. I understand that I could be trapped in a western bubble… but really? I didn’t bother asking for a source because I’m sure the only source for that misinformation is the Kremlin. What’s crazy is that you would think the Russian shills would be spread out trying to infect other communities with disinformation, instead they all flock to this echo chamber apparently, so it seems likely that they genuinely believe this stuff.
Eldritch@lemmy.world 9 months ago
They know it’s bullshit. The United States in this instance is doing the largely correct thing. However historically that hasn’t always been the case. Were usually the ones attacking and destabilizing other countries. South America, Hawaii, the middle east, Korea, Vietnam and on and on. Anyone that opposed US homogene as pushed by wealthy oligarchic fascist throughout American history. Has historically met and unfortunate end.
Realistically in this instance Russia is much closer to what the United States has been historically. Than they are any Ally of leninist regimes. But to leninists. They are the enemy of their enemy and an ally of convenience. Because overall outside of World War II etc. The United States has been the biggest constant enemy to much the rest of the world.
orrk@lemmy.world 9 months ago
1984 was based on the Soviet Union
LeChapeau@lemmy.world 9 months ago
that and Nazi Germany. Or as Orwell said it was… Totalitarianism.
uis@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Modern capitalist Russia is closer to 1984 than Soviet Union. Fuck Putin.
szczuroarturo@programming.dev 9 months ago
Except russians are russians and they eventualy somehow fuck up everything they touch. God forbid they go full on democracy.
KillAllPoorPeople@lemmy.world 9 months ago
You ironically have a post saying that Muslims are culturally terrorists and all Muslims need to fall in line with French cultural authoritarianism. Totally not tankie behavior, just regular normal, “leftist as they come” behavior, right?
You sound like another run of the mill racist, bigoted liberal who wants to smear the leftist label by LARP’ing as one for the sole purpose of attacking leftists.
jcit878@lemmy.world 9 months ago
this thread is just you stalking people and copying their comments. can you do me? maybe the one where i enjoy watching mobiks getting blown up in drone videos, that seemed to upset a few tankies
Buffalox@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Muslim is not a race, just as Fascism is not a race. The idea that religion deserves special treatment needs to die.
assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I’m a progressive who thought I was moderate for the longest time because tankie rhetoric on the left. I fully recognize now though that the tankies are a laughable minority. They’re just a bunch of loud people on the Internet.
wit@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I think this is bad for Lemmy as a whole, as a community. People are doing to equate the “censorship” on lemmy.ml as censorship on Lemmy as a platform. That is just NOT THE CASE. Please, whenever someone mentions lemmy.ml and its censorship or the likes, be fast to mention that that is a specific lemmy server and the beauty of lemmy is its decentralization. There are plenty of other servers.
I fear that this kind of thing drives people away from Lemmy, when it should not.
gelberhut@lemdro.id 9 months ago
Well, the situation is a bit more complex. Admins of this “specific Lemmy Server” are creators and main maintainers of the Lemmy project as such.
So, generalization you are afraid of makes some sense.
wit@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I have replied to someone else further down with my opinion on this topic. I think it also fits in a reply to you, so I will just copy paste it here:
Yes, it might sound worrisome, but I dont think you are pushing authoritarian ideology by using Lemmy. The code itself is fine. The code is not authoritarian. The server which hosts your account is also not authoritarian.
Lemmy is, right now, the best alternative for a reddit-like platform. It is something created for the users, by the users. By using lemmy, you are not enriching the wallets of the shareholders. By using something like reddit, you provide content and a select few get to buy a new yacht.
Also, plenty of people are contributing code to lemmy. It is no longer just these 2. The code is also Open-Source. Anyone can fork it and create a new version of lemmy, with compatibility with the current version of lemmy. By using lemmy, you are allowing the possibility that, at any time in the future, someone else comes and says “I have some ideas to improve lemmy, let’s do this on my own terms”, forks it and continues the work without massively spliting the community.
HKayn@dormi.zone 9 months ago
Only if it’s actually having an effect on the Lemmy project.
From what I’ve seen, the Lemmy devs recognize that their opinions aren’t welcome everywhere, and that Lemmy should not have any biases.
Socsa@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
It also has the largest worldnews community, which bans you for discussing a literal war in Europe
Buffalox@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Obviously a bit thin skinned, but IMO lemmy.ml can do what they want with their moderation. It is not anybody else’s decision how they moderate, except of course keeping it legal.
Seems to me almost all those comments are somewhat offensive, for instance calling people tankies, I’m guessing rule 2 is something about not being rude. Personally I find that perfectly OK not to allow.
OP should “read the room” better, then maybe they could have a proper debate.
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Lemmy dot ml is like, one step away from becoming another Lemmygrad.
and I think thats probably by design, Since lemmygrad is defederated from a lot of the better instances, what better way to get back into them than to take over a federated instance.
Especially when the admins and lemmy creators are down with your tankie ideology and support you taking over the instance.
ram@bookwormstory.social 9 months ago
lemmy.ml defederated lemmygrad.com ages ago
gelberhut@lemdro.id 9 months ago
except of course keeping it legal This is also up to them. If the admins are ok to get corresponding consequences - they can do this.
Posts like this posted here from time to time.
And I think the main problem is: the fact that an instance has a very strong political view and even a censorship becomes a big surprise for people using this exact instance.
It looks like an instance and community policies must be somehow better visible.
Buffalox@lemmy.world 9 months ago
This is also up to them.
No it’s not, they may walk the line, but if they cross it, the law will ultimately be enforced. So in the long run, a service can only exist if it is kept legal.
Posts like this posted here from time to time.
I’m not sure what you mean, but yes there are repeated attacks on lemmy.ml, and it’s getting tiring, because it always turns out bullshit.
an instance has a very strong political view and even a censorship
They are moderating according to their own rules. Rule 2: “Be respectful, especially when disagreeing. Everyone should feel welcome here.” Clearly the above poster violated this rule over and over.
It looks like an instance and community policies must be somehow better visible.
That’s a completely different debate.
thoro@lemmy.world 9 months ago
This is the only good take I’ve read on this thread so far. People are mad their opinions, vitriol, and/or FUD aren’t tacitly approved by the mods of another instance.
Buffalox@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Thank you. I find it sad that so many people don’t seem to understand that their right to free speech, is not a right to dictate other people, or force themselves on whatever forum they want.
Socsa@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
Yeah the first ban I got was warranted, but this time it was just using the word “genocide” consistently with the UN definition. That’s chilling as fuck and goes way beyond simple “stated moderation standards.” That’s straight up information warfare.
Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 9 months ago
“Don’t worry, if you correctly call this a genocide, hexbear will ban you for genocide denial without a hint of irony.”
If you were already on thin ice, this shouldn’t have really been a surprise. Like most internet dwellers who get banned somewhere you’re dressing up your offending comment to make it seem like persecution, but while it’s not a heinous comment on its own, but if you have history I can absolutely see a mod not wanting to deal with you trolling the hexbears. And it certainly wasn’t just “using the word genocide”.
Sodis@feddit.de 9 months ago
But they are taking away free speech!!! \s
Buffalox@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Truly sad to see a majority is down voting this, meaning they believe free speech includes how a lemmy instance is moderated?!
Corgana@startrek.website 9 months ago
About 30% of the people here from Reddit had a problem with mods having too much freedom granted to them by Spez. There is an irony that such people would be attracted to a decentralized network where instances have even more freedom to shape their communities, but as you said- it doesn’t really matter what people think when anyone can go start their own.
ram@bookwormstory.social 9 months ago
Genuine question, is that a real number with a source?
Cryophilia@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I prefer looser mod powers
Reddit mods were capricious and drunk with petty power
Silejonu@kbin.social 9 months ago
It was always a tankie den. The Lemmy developers are very openly tankies.
They held their heads relatively low during the whole Reddit exodus, but that's about it.Here are some examples: https://raddle.me/f/lobby/159606/is-lemmy-still-a-tankie-platform-or-are-there-actual
Haui@discuss.tchncs.de 9 months ago
Reading this really troubles me. I don’t like the implication that using lemmy is pushing authoritarian ideology.
If I was born 50 yrs earlier I would literally have been put in the gas chamber. I tick several qualifiers for it.
wit@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Yes, it might sound worrisome, but I dont think you are pushing authoritarian ideology by using Lemmy. The code itself is fine. The code is not authoritarian. The server which hosts your account is also not authoritarian.
Lemmy is, right now, the best alternative for a reddit-like platform. It is something created for the users, by the users. By using lemmy, you are not enriching the wallets of the shareholders. By using something like reddit, you provide content and a select few get to buy a new yacht.
Also, plenty of people are contributing code to lemmy. It is no longer just these 2. The code is also Open-Source. Anyone can fork it and create a new version of lemmy, with compatibility with the current version of lemmy. By using lemmy, you are allowing the possibility that, at any time in the future, someone else comes and says “I have some ideas to improve lemmy, let’s do this on my own terms”, forks it and continues the work without massively spliting the community.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I think you mean 80 years. Unless there were genociding gas chambers in 1973 I haven’t heard about.
(And I would have been put in one too, just not in 1973.)
MataVatnik@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Fuck I had no idea, why can’t we just have nice things.
Socsa@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
Hah I’m in that screenshot. I just caught my second ban for suggesting that mass deportation of children might qualify as genocide.
It’s infuriating, because if you talk to actual survivors of genocide, they use words like “vigilance” and “never again.” Meanwhile, tankies literally just want to gatekeep the word to protect their ability to simp for tyrants.
hypelightfly@kbin.social 9 months ago
Mass deportation of children is literally (one of) the dictionary definitions of genocide.
Aux@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Not if done by Communists. According to tankies.
figaro@lemdro.id 9 months ago
Power to you. I feel like whenever I say anything trying to inject some form of “genocide is bad” into one of their conversations, I get about 20 comments telling me I’m a shitty person for saying that. Or like, a copy and pasted book that they want me to read and then I’ll understand why genocide is “justified.”
It’s fucked.
So yeah, thanks for your effort, you aren’t alone 😅
assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 9 months ago
They don’t seem to understand that genocide, as a term, does not exclusively mean a violent purge nor Holocaust. The erasure of a group of people can happen with minimal violence too.
It’s hardly surprising though, considering the USSR regularly practiced genocide with “Russification”. This wasn’t so much the violent kind, but more trying to erase a people’s culture and make them assimilate into Russia’s.
To tankies, that’s not genocide, even though it is erasing a culture to impose your own.
Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 9 months ago
Your removed post does talk about genocide, but it also talks shit about Hexbear users. Which I get, I won’t join instances that federate with them, but it’s not exactly comporting with their Rule 2 of “Be respectful, especially when disagreeing. Everyone should feel welcome here.”
Like to some extent yeah, tankies kind of provoke it because apologia for oppressive regimes actively invading their neighbors is itself offensive, but you’re conveniently spinning this to be about genocide rather than the aspect of the comment that would run risks of removal in most communities trying to not foster flame wars. And since you’ve been banned before, it’s hard to believe this isn’t your first time doing it.
sj_zero 9 months ago
Always has been.
It's one of the reasons why lemmy never really took off until the great reddit migration despite having a decent software product.
ndsvw@feddit.de 9 months ago
[deleted]gelberhut@lemdro.id 9 months ago
Yes. People who just consume content can easily switch. But for people who create content this is not that easy, especially for users who created communities there.
minnix@lemux.minnix.dev 9 months ago
I agree it sucks but at least you have that option considering the nature of the Lemmy project.
throws_lemy@lemmy.nz 9 months ago
I’m trying to fill small communities including on lemmy.ml and it feels like I’m the only one filling in.
This’s a bad move for the small community on lemmy.ml
phillaholic@lemm.ee 9 months ago
I’ve already done that twice. It’s annoying, and a pain in the ass to reset subscriptions and blocks. If I am forced to do so again, I don’t know if I will. I doubt I’m alone in this feeling.
trafficnab@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
For me, 4th time’s hopefully the charm
fubo@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Fascists aren’t morally healthy humans. Authoritarians can’t cope with social reality, where different people can have different opinions and loyalties and yet support each other. They always seem to end up succumbing to patriarchal cults, where Lenin-Hitler-Mao gets to do whatever he wants to your sons and your daughters.
KillAllPoorPeople@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Remember children, anything authoritarian (especially when talking about the left) is now fascist. This totally isn’t a maneuver in the right-wing fascist playbook to water down the term “fascist” to push for greater acceptance in the idea of fascism in the general public that we’re seeing today.
HelixDab2@lemm.ee 9 months ago
…Dude. Do you want to, I dunno, read about the purges of loyal communists by Stalin in the 30s and 40s? Can you explain to me how that’s significantly different from the Night of Long Knives?
Lightor@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Dude, you’re just as transparent as you are shallow.
coltorl@programming.dev 9 months ago
You’re acting like this is a right wing play, but the tactic of using fascism as an insult toward left wing parties actually has precedent even within left wing politics. [Before world war 2, even.](en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_fascism#:~:text=So…
dangblingus@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Replying to everyone’s comments, comment history stalking, being a tankie, bro, literally go touch grass.
calavera@lemm.ee 9 months ago
From my experience it was the leftists who started to call everybody and their mother fascist.
So there could be no different outcome from this.
Jargus@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Wouldn’t surprise me. Lemmy.ml was always garbage and I blocked almost every community there because most of their posts are about capitalism or landlords.
vsis@feddit.cl 9 months ago
tankies + fedidrama = classic lemmy
Etterra@lemmy.world 9 months ago
This is where I learned the word tankies. It sounds like British slang honestly.
Invertedouroboros@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Think that’s where it started actually.
TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee 9 months ago
Curious to see how this develops
CosmoNova@feddit.de 9 months ago
The creators are known to lean towards tankie rhetotic and I‘ve read they chose .ml because of Marx and Lenin before. That rose concerns from the beginning so it‘s hardly surprising a moderator there would do this. It is very concerning nonetheless and threatens to throw the creators‘ work into jeopardy because at that point you might as well use twixxer or whatever it‘s called now.
explodicle@local106.com 9 months ago
In typical internet fashion, rather than read these mod logs and decide who was right, I’m just going to say “down with the CCP” a bunch of times there and see if I get banned.
YeetPics@mander.xyz 9 months ago
typical internet fash
Cryophilia@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I laughed
thoro@lemmy.world 9 months ago
The real, cool, interesting content that isn’t worthy of deletion at all
explodicle@local106.com 9 months ago
Obviously I’m going to post it when relevant, not in reply to beef stroganoff recipes.
TheBlue22@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 months ago
Noticed that majority of tankie and genocide defending users are from lemmy.ml, grad of hexbear.
goat@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
Lemmy.ml and Grad are the same
figaro@lemdro.id 9 months ago
I am all for a temporary defederation.
.world has power. It has the people and the content. Flexing a little in support of human rights is 100% a good thing.
Stamets@startrek.website 9 months ago
Defederation is not a cudgel to wield so casually. There’s a lot of power behind it. There are a number of other paths to take before getting to that extreme. If everyone defederated constantly the entirety of lemmy would fall apart over bickering.
mojo@lemm.ee 9 months ago
This is great news. It’s their way if encouraging you to swap instances! You shouldn’t stay on the main popular instance, it defeats the entire point of decentralization.
AustralianSimon@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I had no idea what a tankie was until I read the comments here.
random65837@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Lemmy’s been known for them for years.
spikespaz@programming.dev 9 months ago
I can’t Ctrl+F on my phone, can you tell me?
Rentlar@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
Their “anti-Orientalism” (read as pro-tankie) policy has been known for a good while.
assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Hang on what. Could you expand on this?
KSPAtlas@sopuli.xyz 9 months ago
Never thought the official lemmy instance itself would have to be part of a temporary defed
NotSkynet@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
Go to !worldnews@lemmy.world for less censorship
SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Lemmy seems to have drifted to the fringes of the spectrum politically over time.
arin@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Ironically sus of lemmy.ml since they defederated from nsfw instances
bouh@lemmy.world 9 months ago
In my country we have antifa for antifascists. Are you here some kind of anti-tankies? Because I see far, far more posts about antitankies fighting supposed tankies than I see people fighting fascists.
NotAPenguin@kbin.social 9 months ago
The Lemmy devs are tankies so of course the instance the devs run is gonna follow tankie ideology
xavier666@lemm.ee 9 months ago
Ofcourse it’s a Makima pfp
Natanael@slrpnk.net 9 months ago
Created my first account on Lemmy there before I know what the admins were like.
Just deleted that account.
hamid@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 months ago
Thanks for reminding me to increase my monthly donation to the Lemmy devs and lemmy.ml for doing a great job with fascists and America simps.
dangblingus@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Meanwhile dbzer0 is still federated to Hexbear, despite having a strict “no tankie” policy.
chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 months ago
Coming from Reddit, the very existence of this thread is a breath of fresh air. That there are mod logs at all to be able to document this, that there is a place where it can be posted that is not under control of the mods being criticized, is an enormous improvement over an unaccountable centralized platform.
JonEFive@midwest.social 9 months ago
The other beautiful thing is that if you aren’t satisfied with the behavior of mods and admin on one instance, there are literally hundreds of others to choose from. You aren’t stuck dealing with bad actors if you want to participate. And if moderation of a particular community upsets the users, they are free to move to or create a similar community on a different instance.
The major downside of this is that it’s going to create echo chambers, but that’s unavoidable. It’s not like this is a new problem. Communities that reject outside ideas outright have existed long before the internet.