God forbid anyone get a cheap EV before US car companies sort out which $50,000+ car brand can position itself as the “luxury” one before accepting that they need to build cheaper models.
US to impose tariffs on Chinese EVs next week
Submitted 6 months ago by boem@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
Comments
ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world 6 months ago
miridius@lemmy.world 6 months ago
The Chinese ones are cheap because they’re being subsidised by the Chinese govt to be sold that cheaply overseas as a deliberate economic attack tho
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 6 months ago
The Chinese state isn’t selling cars under the cost of construction. The subsidies come in the form of cheap (increasingly nuclear) energy, publicly funded STEM/trade schools, and public health care. These socialized benefits reduce the real cost of living in China and grow the domestic consumer car market, along with lowering the per-unit production costs.
American car companies have long been hobbled by the obscene cost of employment benefits - high salaries to cover housing costs and student debts, high private insurance premiums, high administration overhead, the constant need to fund stock buybacks in order to keep the value of their stock-incentives up. The deal with the devil they cut with Truman - to make medical insurance a private tax write-off rather than a public good - combined with the enormous Reagan Era tax cuts and rapidly metasticizing private health industry administrative overhead, drives up the cost of each vehicle by thousands of dollars.
This sucks for the car companies, but is fucking awesome for the FIRE sector. And since 30% of the US GDP is tied up in financing, insurance, and real estate growth, our private automotive industry is effectively forced to subsidize their profits. That’s what makes American cars so expensive relative to their East Asian peers.
hark@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Meanwhile the US doesn’t subsidize (or even bail out) its too-big-to-fail auto companies, right? If you consider affordable products a deliberate economic attack, what do you call the extreme price gouging that the American auto companies are carrying out?
MadBigote@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Chinese vehicles suck. Here in mexico they’re all over the place, and their quality is questionable. MGs are a joke now. Good for the US to block these imports.
ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I’m more annoyed that basically every western car company tried to make a $70,000 luxury EV to upscale their brand instead of making a sensible one that people will actually buy. If we want widespread adoption, we need more EVs that aren’t priced based on some pipe dream that people will wake up one day and think Ford is a luxury brand.
hark@lemmy.world 6 months ago
If these Chinese vehicles suck so much, why are US car companies so afraid of them?
31337@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
I think part of the problem is that new cars are bought mostly by fairly well-off individuals; with other people buying used cars. Economy cars sell poorly in the U.S.
natarey@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Don’t buy shitty Chinese EVs, buy the somehow even shittier American EVs!
Zehzin@lemmy.world 6 months ago
For twice the price.
ripcord@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Source on American ones being shittier?
ltxrtquq@lemmy.ml 6 months ago
prole@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
Wait, we were allowed to import these cars??
fatboy93@lemm.ee 6 months ago
You can import a whole bunch of stuff, but it’s upto each state to decide if they’ll allow you to use it on road.
gregorum@lemm.ee 6 months ago
not sure that they are technically for sale here yet, but this would apply to future sales.
TheFeatureCreature@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I was just talking to my dad about this the other day and I told him that it was only a matter of time before the US government goes after Chinese EV’s at the request of the US auto lobby.
I didn’t think it would be this soon, though. Hurray for more garbage EV’s for $50,000+
JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 6 months ago
Volvo EX30 compact EV SUV comes out this year with a base price of 35k. I consider that exceptionally reasonable (esp. for a Volvo). I’d buy one myself, but getting my house setup for EVs is a huge can of worms. My electric main is buried, I only have 100a service and my panel is full to the brim.
the_third@feddit.de 6 months ago
100A*240V is 24kW. I don’t know what else you’re doing, but a 7.2kW car on board charger is well within that.
Zehzin@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I’m shocked the auto cartel aren’t making them be banned like chinese smartphones tbh
TheFeatureCreature@lemmy.world 6 months ago
They will if there is enough demand for 'em.
bradorsomething@ttrpg.network 6 months ago
Suck it, earth!
Eezyville@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
Free Market!!!
Except if you’re Chinese
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
I’m frankly getting pretty goddamn annoyed at all the people who relentlessly fail to understand that the PRC is heavily subsidizing production of basically all of their EVs in the interest of undercutting literally all other countries that are (or are trying to) produce EVs.
By all means, research what I’m saying here to confirm its veracity - in fact I encourage you to. This is economic warfare, plain and simple.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 6 months ago
And what do you think the EV rebates in the US are?
Fuck the rich. I need a cheap, safe, and reliable vehicle to get to work.
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
Do you understand the difference between subsidizing domestic purchases and subsidizing export production?
Cris_Color@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Allowing a country’s political party to position their industry in a monopolistic way is a bad idea. When one group controls an industry they much more easily exploit their consumers. Encouraging folks to buy ev’s in general is different from undercutting prices to create a dominant position in the market that can be exploited once you have no meaningful competitors
czardestructo@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Its not just the EV, its every layer of the supply chain. From the lithium they mine, the batteries they make out of it, the circuits and metal fabricating. Their government subsidies the electricity, tools, facilities, labor, etc. I work in the engineering field and I see bits and pieces of this everyday and have seen it for decades because I’m forced to source parts from China.
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
I know. I’m trying to dumb it down a bit because the dipshits who argue about this stuff don’t seem to understand the incredible level of complexity of modern-day high tech consumer product manufacturing logistics.
sebinspace@lemmy.world 6 months ago
EVE Online taught me this lesson. Those with the resources to do so will take a loss to price you out of the market, because they know you can’t take the losses nearly as long as they can.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 6 months ago
This isn’t a mom and pop shop. This is the Big 3 in the country with a GDP 10 trillion dollars higher.
Stop sueding red panic, it’s not the 1950’s.
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
And that’s precisely what’s happening here. A car manufacturer with a whole-ass government subsidizing it is going to be able to operate just fine at a loss pretty much indefinitely, whereas a normal car manufacturer would sooner or later simply go bankrupt (pointedly ignoring the whole “too big to fail” idiocy, which to be honest, while similar, isn’t quite the same thing).
thezeesystem@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Isn’t this just a ban on Chinese evs? Just with extra steps? Make it impossible financially to sell it in the US pretty much is a ban without saying it’s a ban
BaroqueInMind@lemmy.one 6 months ago
The tariff on Samsung phones sure did the trick banning them all from U.S. /s
Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
What’s the tariffs? I tried to Google it, but I only got served a bunch of ads for phones.
sirico@feddit.uk 6 months ago
Muh Chag-li!
redcalcium@lemmy.institute 6 months ago
A car as cheap as a moped. Amazing!
Rognaut@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Great video!
Excrubulent@slrpnk.net 6 months ago
And there’s this: youtu.be/9AL5RQ9XgMo
Even cheaper, but they basically use it like they use all their vehicles, to make some mad offroad project.
Caligvla@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 months ago
That is amazing! It’s a toy car in human size LMAO!
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 months ago
EVs are all about saving car dependency and the auto cartels, not saving the environment.
MrSpArkle@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
This is unhelpful and reductive.
MargotRobbie@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Although the BYDs and GWMs and MGs are getting popular in Australia, I have literally never seen a Chinese EV in the States outside of locally built BYD busses, and BYD cars have distinct designs that are fairly easy to spot. So this feels like posturing to me.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I have literally never seen a Chinese EV in the States outside of locally built BYD busses, and BYD cars have distinct designs that are fairly easy to spot. So this feels like posturing to me.
The Chinese business strategy has been to target East Asian, Indian, Russian, and West African car markets. They’re not trying to compete with US cars in the United States. They’re displacing US export markets in the Third World. You might be able to find them south of the border, however. In the first five months of 2023, Chinese exports to Latin America reached over 330,000 vehicles with a special focus on Mexico and Chile.
Meanwhile, the US has had a long and storied tradition of open hostility to foreign car manufacturers. Consequently ten different car manufacturers have plants in the United States.
These taxation and regulatory provisions are shockingly similar to the Chinese rules that guys like Biden and Trump deride as anti-competitive. And given the quality of US vehicles has long been sketchy at best, with a continued reliance on ICE engines in a market that increasingly favors the cheaper and more reliable electric vehicles, we could be headed for a future in which the US car fleet becomes one of the most expensive to operate and maintain in the world.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 6 months ago
The government will make sure they survive. They’re to big to be allowed to fail.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 6 months ago
They’ve been getting ready to ship to the US for a while. The EX30 arrived this year and is getting pretty good reception. It’s 35,000 and the best rated EV SUV at it’s price point. It’s 7 overall behind vehicles 20,000 more expensive.
1984@lemmy.today 6 months ago
US is scared now of someone making better and cheaper cars. :)
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
Nah, we’re cool with Japan eating our lunch. We just don’t want a nationstate to artificially make their cars cheaper, even if they are good, to grab marketshare.
Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Damn. I was interested in the Volvo ex30
scytale@lemm.ee 6 months ago
I was too, until I found out they completely removed the driver instrument cluster, so even the speedometer is on the infotainment screen. I’m all for large screens, but the speedo and other necessary gauges should still be in front of the driver or on a HUD.
Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 6 months ago
100% agree. They really stripped that car down in order to make it work with a 27% import tax from China. Few physical buttons, a soundbar instead of door speakers, etc. There are a number of quirky design
Android Automotive (not to be confused with Android Auto) is the only thing that makes me think I could make it work. More specifically, Google Assistant control for HVAC, defrost, etc.
One of the things that drives me nuts about Telsa is that the buttons are missing, and the voice control is shit in comparison to Assistant and even janky ’ol Siri.
1984@lemmy.today 6 months ago
Also it’s super plastic and feels cheap. I was disappointed in it and went for xc40 instead with higher quality feeling.
TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 6 months ago
It gets worse. Not only did they remove the the cluster and shifted everything to the infotainment a-la Tesla, but their system for detecting if you’re looking at the road (for alertness/safety reasons) immediately starts screaming at you when you glance over at the speedometer on your infotainment screen. Who tf designed that system?
Maggoty@lemmy.world 6 months ago
There’s a car out now that uses an actual glass HUD. I’d go for that. Give me the name of the band playing, my speed, and my next turn right in front of me instead of to the side.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 6 months ago
Its the Ticktok trend
Kiosade@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
I just cant imagine these somehow being better than trash-tier Teslas, let alone anything else.
NoLifeGaming@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Hmm yes true capitalism. Shun those you can’t compete with
JovialSodium@lemmy.sdf.org 6 months ago
I wonder how repairable and maintainable these will be as compared to EV’s from other markets and if replacement batteries will be available as the original ones reach the end of their useful life.
If these concerns end up being valid, and the tariffs are large enough that these cars aren’t priced particularly competively, that’d be enough for this EV consumer to pass it up for his next vehicle. Will be interested to see how it plays out.
moon@lemmy.cafe 6 months ago
Car makers can’t be bothered to compete so they lobbied (bribed) the government to just ban the competition.
bruhduh@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Free market but only until someone overtakes us, then shun them to eliminate cheap merchandise so we can rig up the prices, did i understood that right?
Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Got em shakin in their slacks
PanArab@lemm.ee 6 months ago
More for me!
PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 6 months ago
I’m usually against tariffs but in this case it seems like a pretty fair tit for tat to China basically removing the budgetary concerns for their manufacturers that said manufacturer’s international counterparts won’t have.
Subsidizing local production for local markets is fine enough, but exporting products made with an infinite money glitch active is more or less an intentional play at market capture.
And before some sinoboo tries to gatcha me I do also object to examples where the west subsidizes domestic production for international markets.
tsonfeir@lemm.ee 6 months ago
I want a $10000 car that would normally be inflated to $30000 in the US.
I’m no lover of China, but fuck the capitalist auto companies.
Zipitydew@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
That $10k Chinese car cost $20k to make. A competitor undercutting the market that much leads to monopolization. When that competitor is being bankrolled by a foreign government it’s potentially even a hostile act.
People have been mad for decades about what Walmart did to retail in the US. Taking steps to prevent that from also happening with the auto industry should be appreciated.
Buelldozer@lemmy.today 6 months ago
You can’t make that same car in the United States for anything like the same price. Even ignoring the Chinese Governments heavy subsidies there’s still a massive cost gap due to worker compensation, cost of compliance with safety regulations, cost of compliance with environmental regulations, and a whole host of other things.
The cost of manufacturing in the United States is radically higher than it is in China and that simply isn’t fixable unless you’re going to unwind Union pay deals, remove environmental laws, and reduce safety restrictions.
You cannot have both, so which are you choosing? Are you going to go with your wallet like a self absorbed capitalist or are you going to support union workers, stronger environmental laws, and more worker safety?
Novi@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
I was born into a car centric society. So much so they design the places we live around them. Including dense residential far away from employment that requires transportation. Chop all attempts at decent public transit and now you have created a market of completely artificial demand. Which the law says cars must become more expensive. I have to have a car because of the awful design choices made by unqualified politicians past. Fuck the auto industry. They could have been out saviors by being the example of what union companies do but instead chose violence.
PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Ah yes, great way to fuck over our capitalists, by supporting their worse capitalists instead
Not_mikey@slrpnk.net 6 months ago
It’s not the capitalist auto companies who are going to get hurt though. The price advantage of the Chinese companies comes from low labor costs and government subsidies, so the auto companies will just move there production to whatever country offers the most subsidies and least labor costs because in our current globalized world capital can move freely.
The real losers will be the unionized auto workers who’ll be abandoned while capitalists maintain or even increase there profits in the third world. These sorts of race to the bottom always harm workers, whether it be with clothes and shein , or EVs.
AtariDump@lemmy.world 6 months ago
All Carsalesmen Are Bastards.
Defund the dealerships.
Pulptastic@midwest.social 6 months ago
I prefer the circular solution. Make a tariff equal to the delta, and use the tariff to subsidize local production and reduce the delta.
Zipitydew@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
Now this I can get behind. We should fight back by subsidization of production as heavily as China is theirs.
umbrella@lemmy.ml 6 months ago
subsidizing production isnt a bad thing.
it makes for a quicker transition to ev. its only a problem now because china is doing it.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I’m against it but I understand it. Every successful country in the last 500 years has subsidized their foreign facing corporations.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 6 months ago
How moral of you to object to the US government doing the same thing.
Can I have a means of transportation I can fucking afford now?