Will I ever be seen as truly British?

Submitted ⁨⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨CalciumDeficiency@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨nostupidquestions@lemmy.world⁩

My family immigrated to the UK from Poland when I was six. I’m 20 now, speak much better English than Polish and feel like this is my land/culture. However I have a Polish first and last name, Polish passport and “unique” accent everyone picks up on, so despite this I’m usually perceived as an outsider. It makes me really sad because I don’t “belong” in Poland anymore either. Everything seems so complicated especially as I’ve gotten older with having to get the right documentation for work and opening a bank account and etc also… Not even sure if I can vote in the next general election even though I feel like I should be able to?

I’ve had a few nasty instances of being told to go back to my own country, even had a conker thrown at my head while a boy yelled Polski at me in year 11, and tbh even just been seen as a novelty and being asked to say something in Polish has gotten really old. I guess I’m just wondering if I’ll ever truly fit in. For some context, I grew up in North England and now live in Wales

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user224@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I am afraid not.
It’s with you like race. You can’t change it.
If you’re part of any minority you’ll always attract these dumbasses.

Sorry, I’d like to tell you something better.

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- kambusha@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Smile, wave politely, and swear in Polish. Kurva.
  
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  - lath@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    That word is too well known nowadays. Needs another one.
    
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rimu@piefed.social ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
You might feel more comfortable in a larger city. In London every person you meet has a different accent.

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squid_slime@lemm.ee ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
No ones truly anything, nationalism is a horrid thing and sorry people have treated you as they have, its more they’re own insecurity then anything to do with you.

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OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I was born in the UK but with a West Indian and an actual Indian grandparent on one side. Lived there my entire life up until relatively recently. There were still people who would consider me not British. When people either in the UK or where I live now ask where I’m from and I tell them I’m British, there are many people who say “but where are you really from?”

But it doesn’t mean anything if I say I’m Jamaican, or Indian, because one I’ve been to for some odd trips as a kid and the other I only transferred through an airport. Yeah my DNA shows that, but my entire life has basically minimal connection to either of those places and a continuous connection to Britain.

I got the accent and the passport, but I didn’t get the skin colour. So these people will always exist who want to make it seem like I’m not “really” British. But that is on them, not me. I am British, whether they like it or not.

This is really a long winded way of saying: there will always be some people who consider you not truly British. Fuck them. They are idiots that have at best shackled themselves to some outdated view of what it means to be “British” and at worst want to shutter the whole country off to anyone who doesn’t look or speak like them and pull us all back to the stone age.

I think if you speak to people you are close with about this they would consider you British. If you speak with Baz down at the Red Lion he’ll ask you for a pierogi and then fall asleep in his own vomit after a few too many pints of carling. I think Baz is much less important than all of the real people in your life and most of all, the way you view yourself.

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- Aggravationstation@feddit.uk ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I grew up in a small northern town. Most of the people in my family and that town are fairly racist, mainly because they haven’t encountered many people who aren’t white British. There’s a lot of closed mindedness in the UK sadly.
  
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otp@sh.itjust.works ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Whenever someone asks where you’re from, just get more specific with where you grew up. Never with where your parents or ancestors are from.

Country. County. Town. District. Block. Nearest intersection or landmark. Which room of the house was yours.

If they don’t get the picture or ask about your background, you could say “I thought you wanted to know about me, not my parents”.

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- CalciumDeficiency@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  This is genius
  
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- moistclump@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Where are you from? London. No. Where were you born? 6th Avenue.
  
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- volvoxvsmarla@lemm.ee ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  That’s how I handled my high school year abroad. Because I literally came from Germany, I replied to that question with “I am from Germany”. Not “I am German”, but “from Germany”. I was born and raised there and only lived there. Only if it came up (e.g. because of my passport) or made sense in context, I mentioned that I am a Russian from Germany. So basically most people only found out about my genetics five months in. But of course that works much easier when you pass due to looks and accent.
  
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orcrist@lemm.ee ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
The racists and xenophobes will never accept you. There’s no fixing some people’s brains. The good thing is, especially as you get older and able to do various kinds of work, you don’t have to associate with those kinds of jerks very often. It’s your community, it’s your country, and they don’t get to be the gatekeepers of who counts as local, no matter how hard they try.

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xmunk@sh.itjust.works ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Bigots don’t define labels - if you think you’re British you’re British enough for me.

I’m an immigrant as well (though the cultural differences between Canada and America are much less evident) and anyone who says I’m not Canadian can get fucking bent.

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- TOModera@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Born Canuck here. Yes one of us, ya hoser.
  
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  - xmunk@sh.itjust.works ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    The moment I started saying zed by default, I knew it!
    
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Devi@kbin.social ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Knowing what a conker is makes you super British.

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- VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Yeah, I’m American and have no idea what a conker is unless it’s having a bad fur day.
  
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- evening_push579@feddit.nu ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Please explain /Non-British
  
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  - Insig@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    It’s the name/game given to chestnuts where you put a hole through the chestnut and pass some string through and tie it off.
    
    The game is simple you try and break your opponents conker with yours. Taken turns.
    
    The defender holds the string steady with his conker straight down
    
    The attacker uses his conker to try and break the defenders using a sort of downwards flick.
    
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Nibodhika@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
It’s curious, I have a similar story but with different countries, and the reactions are VERY different. I was born in Argentina, but my family emigrated to Brazil when I was 13 years old. I speak fluent Portuguese but obviously have an accent that people can’t quite place, but once it’s pointed out they notice it. Yet the vast majority of my interactions about it are something similar to:

Where are you from?

I was born in Argentina, but lived in Brazil over 16 years

Ah, so you’re mostly Brazilian then

And I think that that says a lot about Brazilians and how they’re very welcoming and friendly. Unfortunately the British don’t seem to be the same way, at least from your experience, maybe people in larger cities are more used to immigrants so they would see you as mostly British or something.

As for the voting, for me at least the only way was to become a citizen, most countries allow you to ask for citizenship if you’ve been living legally long enough so you probably qualify. Just bear in mind that some countries ask you to abandon your other citizenships when you do so, so not sure if that’s your case and if it’s worth it just to be able to vote.
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brewery@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I am born and raised in England to Indian parents so always had some internal tension. Sometimes, I don’t understand my patents culture and sometimes I don’t understand English culture. However, I’ve realised I am who I am, and can take the best bits from both. There are some bits I don’t like so I’m the better for being / having that mix. I married an Irish person who moved over several years ago. Irish used to be the “other” and were screwed over, but now are sometimes considered “white”, so just shows the target moves.

There has always been racism in British society and unfortunately I have felt it pick up since the Brexit vote and Trump’s election (I think it empowered them). However, it is from a small minority of people. In some areas it comes from ignorance, which I can kind of forgive. Others will always see us as outsiders with our foreign names (and my brown skin) no matter what we do. I just think, screw them. I mean, can they trace themselves back before the Normans, the Romans or the Vikings etc? Where do you draw the line exactly?!? England has always been a mix of people and culture so they’re the ones missing out. I’m happy driving my Korean car to a German store to buy ingredients for a Thai green curry. Oh, I’ll grab a French pastry for breakfast, Chilean wine for the weekend and well, you get the idea! Let’s make the most of this multicultural place and ideas, and who cares about bigots who you can guarantee, like a cheeky korma and Belgian beer…

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- CalciumDeficiency@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Definitely relate to not quite fitting in with either culture! I’m grateful for the perspective my heritage has given me on national identity and how I view different customs as a whole, because I think it has made me more understanding of others. But I definitely feel most understood myself when with other people who are dual identity, no matter what those identities are - there are definitely common threads we all share, from trying to fit in and camouflage to the dissonance we feel when considering what it would be like to move back to our country of origin
  
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TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Perhaps recognize your truly cosmopolitan background as a citizen of the world ? Maybe fitting in nowhere is the beginning of fitting in everywhere ?

And grab that slur with both hands, flip it, and make it your own.

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Naich@lemmings.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
You seem like a decent thoughtful person, and I would rather have you as a fellow Brit than the knobheads that throw conkers at you.

Defining a person by their nationality is pretty stupid when you consider that we are all on the same rock hurtling through the unfathomable depths of space. My grandad always had to know where a person was from in order to put them into a specific box in his mind. I always found it utterly disgusting and just weird. I guess there will always be people like that, but it’s learned behaviour. Kids don’t care where someone is from until they are told it’s important by an idiot adult.

I’m waffling now, but it genuinely doesn’t matter where you are from. One of the few things that makes me proud to be British is the fact that we are a big melting pot of different cultures. We are enhanced by having British people with different heritages. I don’t know if you are planning on applying for British nationality, but I would be delighted if you did. I, and a huge majority of Brits would welcome you with open arms, while the bigots amongst us can fuck off and go and be miserable in their own nasty little corner.

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ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I know the feeling. I’ve been in the USA for decades, almost my entire life, but as soon as I say anything, everyone can immediately hear that I’m not American. People who ask me about it are well-meaning and curious. I still don’t like it, but I try not to show it.

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- captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  That well meaning curiosity is the America I know.
  
  I was born in North Carolina, I speak with a textbook Piedmont white guy drawl. I’m as American as high fructose corn syrup, no question. Here’s some hell I’ve caught: Europeans struggle to cope when I describe myself as “German and a little Scottish.” To me, that’s my ethnic background, to a lot of Europeans I’ve argued with, it’s stolen valor. “You’re not personally from Germany, you aren’t German.” Then explain my genome. Or my surname.
  
  I think us who live in the New World have a whole different understanding of diaspora.
  
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  - aasatru@kbin.earth ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Well, imagine you meet a guy travelling through the US. He's wearing lederhosen, has a freaking feather in his hat, and speaks with a heavy German accent. You ask where he's from, and he says he's American/Italian, as his maternal grandfather was born in the US and his grandmother on his father's side is Italian. However, this is his first time outside of Germany, and he speaks no Italian and hardly any English.
    
    This is what Americans tend to look like to Europeans.
    
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  - samus12345@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Say you have German and Scottish ancestry. Omitting that part makes it sound like you’re saying you’re culturally German and Scottish.
    
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sanguinepar@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
For what it’s worth, if you’ve lived here since you were six, I’d absolutely consider you British.

British with Polish roots maybe, and perhaps officially Polish in legal terms (re your passport), but this is your home, so perception-wise I’d definitely call you British.

Re working and voting, that’s where it gets more complicated and I don’t know what the rules say, although it would seem hugely unfair for you not to have those rights having lived here for such a large proportion of your life. You could maybe try your local Citizen’s Advice Bureau for more informed advice on those points.

Sorry you experienced the kind of abuse/patronising attitudes as you describe - some people are just arseholes unfortunately. Doesn’t make them right though.

I hope that things get easier for you, and that as time passes you feel more accepted by those around you and are able to take part in regular life as much as possible.

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stembolts@programming.dev ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
As an American it always seemed strange to me the perception of someone as an outsider. I know other Americans do it too so it’s not like we are some special snowflake country, we have a lot of intolerance of course.

But idk, to me Americans have all sorts of accents, indian/asian, hispanic, african, australian, whatever. I never considered that someone who sounds different wouldn’t be the same as every other American.

Not sure if this train of thought is shared by other countries. I have heard that Japanese people will basically never consider anyone not native to Japan as anything other than foreign. That is a strange thought to me.

I guess I’m bad at being bigoted.

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- zephorah@lemm.ee ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  We’re a larger melting pot. In fact, that’s kind of our schtick. In spite of the racial shit, it swings entirely the other way as well. It’s a big country. England doesn’t cover a lot of surface area. 68million vs 341.5million.
  
  Regionally there’s dialect nuance based on immigration. We’re a country of immigrants. If we’re discussing Poland then let’s talk Wisconsin. You can’t throw a stick in any direction without hitting a “ski” last name. People actually say shit like “borrow me your car Friday” or “borrow me a pencil”, instead of “lend”. My understanding is borrow and lend are the same word in Polish, context telling you what you need to know. All without identifying as Polish, just Midwest American, as far as I can tell. Even though we’re younger as a country, we’ve had time for that to happen.
  
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  - lvxferre@mander.xyz ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    People actually say shit like “borrow me your car Friday” or “borrow me a pencil”, instead of “lend”.
    
    That’s correct. The distinction between lender and borrower is given by the case, so the same verb works for both.
    
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- CalciumDeficiency@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Maybe because they’re both island nations with an isolationist culture, but there are definitely parallels to be drawn between the treatment foreigners get in the UK and in Japan. Growing up, being Polish was the identity others assigned to me and how they identified me and the main way in which I was described, and people make a lot of assumptions about me based on it. I used to get asked if I was Jewish a lot growing up because I have pretty stereotypically Slavic features, for example, and one time a teacher described me as “sallow skinned” after seeing I have an ethnic name on the school register.
  
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- lvxferre@mander.xyz ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I think that the key difference is that plenty societies were built with the “immigration” mindset. It isn’t just the ones in USA, but mostly the whole New World. And even if the “bulk” of the immigration in the XIX and XX centuries is over, the mindset is still here.
  
  As opposed to the typical society in the Old World where, if you were born somewhere, odds are that your grand-grand-grand-grandparents were also born there, like Japan and UK-minus-London.
  
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- trolololol@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Australia is great at this. It has a crazy number of migrants, if I’m not mistaken 50% of people is either 1st Gen Australian or 0th Gen like OP and me.
  
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Acamon@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I thinknif you’ve lived in Britain that long most people would think of you as British, especially if you have a reasonably British accent. Where I live in Scotland, most people are happy to accept anyone who actually wants to live in Scotland as Scottish!

Hut there’s always going to be racist idiots. I’ve been told I’m “not really British” just because I’m from Scotland (by someone who obviously doesn’t understand the difference between England and Britain. And I’ve seem the whitest, pure Anglo-Saxon English people being called “not really British” because they wanted to stay in the EU. So, try to ignore the idiots!

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MonkderDritte@feddit.de ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Will you ever be yourself?

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- Legend@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Will yourself ever be you ?
  
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samus12345@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
You’re culturally British, therefore you’re British.

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abcd@feddit.de ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Being in the same situation in a different country, but a couple of years older: In my experience you never will be fully accepted by everyone. You will be the Polish guy in UK and the British guy in Poland.

You can identify yourself as what you want. You must learn that people have the right to have their own opinion even though it is wrong or opposed to yours. You have to learn not to care and live your life as a nice person. It doesn’t matter at all what others think as long as they don’t hurt you.

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- CalciumDeficiency@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I am a woman, but other than that bang on
  
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LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Not in the UK alongside British people for sure.

I’m in the same boat but not from Poland and I came over a tad later (12) but I’m also 5 years older.

I don’t actually have an accent inherently but I always use an American one to obscure my country of origin.

It’s really quite a backwards little country and they have an insular culture and hot opinions on ‘de immigants’ amongst other things, they’re just polite enough to keep it to the voting booth most of the time until the the child alcoholism and the FAS kicks in.

They will always see you as defined by your nationality first because to them, it makes you fundamentally different as a person because they themselves are fundamentally defined by their nationality - (you can often tell by how much they rely on this as material for ‘banter’) - rather than how many other people see it - as a random side note of historical background of yet another human on this planet - a citizen of the world if you will.

I recall meeting a friend group of my S.O. who’s been here all her life and went to school with those people and still the occasional joke about her country of origin gets a big laugh, not to mention the only brown person at the table only ever joked and got joked to about being Muslim, it wasn’t offensive or anything, but you’d think the guy was a hardcore religious leader by how much it came up when he seemed like just some guy to me.

They might keep you around to pitch in with a fun fact about Poland (even if you don’t really know any) or say something funny (to them) in your accent/language, but you’ll never be actually British and treated as just another one of the peeps about the place.

Try to surround yourself with other people from diverse backgrounds if you can, which won’t be possible in the norf (idk about Wales, never been) but you can definitely do this in London as British people are far and few between and so long as you steer clear of other majorly represented insular ethnic groups you can maybe find a multinational clique or what I had more luck with - an eastern european one with similar levels of integration and shared interests etc., and maybe consider living or visiting elsewhere, like the US which is far more diverse and your background matters far less.

Hope this helps.

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- sanguinepar@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  British people are few and far between in London? Ok then.
  
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  - LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Compared to the rest of the country in the ethnic-cultural sense? Yeah absolutely.
    
    en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_London
    
    London is 36.8% White British
    
    en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester
    
    For comparison a major metropolitan area lime the city of Manchester is 59.3% White British
    
    en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brighton_and_Hove#
    
    Brighton is 80.5% White British
    
    Furthermore in London, 40.7% of people are born in another country, and 56.8% of people are born to a foreign-born mother.
    
    That’s what makes London so different from the rest of the country imo, and a way better place to be as a young person who doesn’t belong elsewhere.
    
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cabbage@piefed.social ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
You'll never be anything less than what you are, but that's a strength. Just speaking two languages well already puts you at an advantage. The experiences you have of seeing the cultures in relation to each other also gives you an edge.

Sometimes it's nice to be able to just blend in, but life is all about learning and gathering experiences and impressions, and you have a head start. It might not always be easy, but you'll learn to appreciate it.

And as long as Poland is in the EU I'd much rather have a Polish password than an English one.

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Timecircleline@sh.itjust.works ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I’m not sure if you’re able to pursue citizenship, if it’s something you’re after, but in terms of the “unique” accent- you don’t owe anybody an answer if they ask “where are you from?”

You can tell them you’re English. You can tell them you grew up in England, truthfully. You can tell them English is the only language you speak. You don’t owe anyone your backstory. If you’re feeling petty or vindictive you can lie and say you have a speech impediment. I know their intentions are likely good but by inquiring about your accent, they are othering you. It’s up to you how you’d like to respond.

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Rumbelows@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Much of the North and Wales are still not very diverse Part of what you were experiencing is the fact that you really do stand out.

Bristol is not so very far away from you, and it’s a very cosmopolitan city… No one there will give a fuck I do assure you.

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Dreizehn@kbin.social ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
The bloody Red Coats or as we call them in German, "Inselaffen." Tell them Rule Britannia sank long ago and the Polish 303 Squadron saved their asses during WW II. Keep your EU passport too, it's an excellent insurance policy in case shit goes wrong.

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GreatAlbatross@feddit.uk ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
~~You will be truly British once you register on feddit.uk~~

In seriousness, I like to think it’s a state of mind. If you find yourself generally aligning most with the more positive British attitudes, you’re British. Though living in Wales, you may end up feeling more Welsh eventually!

If you want to feel more connected, try getting involved with local festivities and traditions.
Explore the countryside with the Ramblers. Do some pub quizzes. Go to a folk festival.
The sorts of things that involve you with pleasant people.

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lvxferre@mander.xyz ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I’m perhaps a bit biased because for me a country boils down to a government, and I’m from the new world (we tend to see immigrants differently - more like “newcomers” and less like “outsiders”), but I’d consider you British.

That doesn’t say much though. At the end of the day, “you’re British” or “you’re Polish” seem fairly minor to me, compared with “you’re human” and “you’re you”.

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jbrains@sh.itjust.works ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
You might be able to find people who accept you, even if the average Brit doesn’t. People have strange ideas about whom to hate and why.

It’s complicated and I can’t pretend to really understand your situation, but I trust that feeling pity for them works better for your mental health than any other reaction, including trying to ignore them. Whatever you do, don’t let yourself believe them.

Peace.

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Devi@kbin.social ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Knowing what a conker is makes you super British.

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