Are people arguing statistics about it? Like how many women are killed by bears every year compared to men? Lmao, they’re not even close.
Comment on Mean world syndrome has reacted a fever pitch.
Neato@ttrpg.network 1 month ago
The number of people either too dense or too willfully misogynistic to understand what this is about is depressing.
If you’re arguing bear statistics or saying “not all men” or decrying misandry, then you’ve totally missed the point. If you are doing it intentionally, you’re the type of men women would choose the bear over.
The fact that anyone would choose a dangerous animal over a random man is an indictment against the culture surrounding male privilege and should spark introspection and change. Arguments against this is just ignoring women and solidifies the decision that the bear is better.
driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 1 month ago
butter@midwest.social 1 month ago
I’ve seen one video on the subject that my wife showed me, then I had a conversation with my wife about it.
When you’re looking at statistics, women attacked by bears per year vs women attacked by men per year, it’s not taking into account the fact that 99% of women don’t get into situations where they are near bears. Most women (and men) don’t go hiking in bear populated woods frequently. Like how the overall odds of getting struck by lightning is low, but some people are struck 8 times are survive.
The better statistic for this argument is that a man is more likely going to kill you in an encounter, should it escalate. I didn’t fact check this, but I’ll take this video at it’s word.
Zorque@kbin.social 1 month ago
Almost like that was part of the original article.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Part of the reason many people never see a bear is because they actively stay away from humans. Everything being equal, (the bear is healthy, it’s not near hibernation, and there’s no cubs nearby) you could quite easily do the animal version of hanging out with them. (Animals are fine paralleling each other by something like 50 meters)
Same thing with wolves. They’re so naturally adverse to human contact that handlers at wolf rescue operations just literally walk into the enclosure, drop their food and walk away. For vet stuff they come in with cushioned sticks and just gently pin them to the ground. Now I don’t suggest trying that without some training and backup but it illustrates just how much normal animals don’t want anything to do with humans.
Mango@lemmy.world 1 month ago
How often are you near a bear? How many bears have you attacked or wronged? Do you wonder how a bear might react if it understood English and you talked about it like you talk about men?
slowwooderrunsdeep@lemmy.world 1 month ago
It’s also amazing how people can have this argument in one thread and then go to another thread and leave a comment that just says “ACAB”.
You don’t trust cops? Why not? Because of a few bad apples?
Sounds like you get it…
Letstakealook@lemm.ee 1 month ago
That argument doesn’t hold water. One is an immutable characteristic, and the other is a career choice. A career that filters for certain personalities.
slowwooderrunsdeep@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Well first off, being a man is not an immutable characteristic, because transgender people exist.
Second, the difference between the two groups you bring up isn’t relevant in this comparison, because pointing out the differences between them doesn’t negate the similarities. Both are groups with an inordinate amount of power (physical or legal) over any outgroup and are supported by cultural norms that allow them to exercise that power largely without repercussions. Both groups are also protected from consequences by others within the group, regardless if the others agree with their questionable decisions. And most importantly, both groups are human, meaning the individuals vary widely within the group along the moral spectrum. Even if most within the group are good, bad actors will always exist and there’s no way to know which one you’re dealing with at face value.
Even if it’s not a perfect comparison, it’s apt enough to support my point.
Letstakealook@lemm.ee 1 month ago
Being a man is immutable, unless you are saying being transgender is a choice.
I brought up the largest difference between the groups, not the only significant difference between the groups. One is a choice, the other isn’t. This difference alone is more important than any similarities your comparison can draw.
It is a highly flawed argument that only serves to get back pats from those that agree with you.
NoIWontPickAName@kbin.earth 1 month ago
Well I know a couple of black guys that have committed crimes, I better paint them all with the same brush.
chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 month ago
Well first off, being a man is not an immutable characteristic, because transgender people exist.
The aspect of being a man that makes people consider you a threat by default is an immutable characteristic though, if you are a trans woman people will treat you that way even more than otherwise.
Mango@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Man is not a gender. Man isn’t an aesthetic choice. Man isn’t a social role. Man doesn’t need an injection to stay man.
Drusas@kbin.run 1 month ago
The idea is that ACAB because one bad apple spoils the bunch. So yeah. You're missing the point of the idiom you are using.
Mango@lemmy.world 1 month ago
The bad apples are organized and lead by other bad apples and actively weed out any potential good apples who wouldn’t have a snowflakes’s chance in hell at accomplishing change anyhow. How do you think corruption works?
newthrowaway20@lemmy.world 1 month ago
This whole thing is just another way of putting men against women.
Neato@ttrpg.network 1 month ago
Men having to listen to women and be confronted with reality and the harms their gender and society are actively causing is NOT pitting people against each other. Women don’t want to fight and ostracize men. They want to be safe FROM men.
If you see this discussion and feel defensive, that’s your brain trying to tell you something’s wrong and you should probably analyze why you feel like you are being attacked.
newthrowaway20@lemmy.world 1 month ago
See, this is what I mean. Stupid arguments.
You’re not confronting reality when you compare men to animals. You’re literally projecting your insecurities onto me by assuming I’m defensive over this topic. I’m not defending either man or woman or bear in this argument. I’m saying this whole topic is a stupid hypothetical and all it does is lead people to argue, like you literally did with me. You’re not confronting reality by saying your safe with a bear, because reality is, you’ll never go be with a bear.
If you want to have a real discussion about the very real and serious harms that women have to deal with, I’m happy to discuss that. That’s a topic worth discussing. This isn’t that discussion. This is a bad faith hypothetical designed to frame a conversation against men for the sake of stirring more shit. And honestly this’ll be the last I engage with this thread because it’s really already consumed too much of my time.
I hope you understand, I’m not trying to fight or belittle your opinion or attack you. If you wanna frame this as me being defensive, that’s your prerogative, but I just found this whole question to be dumb when I first heard about it a few days ago, and this article just once again reinforced how dumb I found it.
NoIWontPickAName@kbin.earth 1 month ago
You are conflating all men with the guilty.
Neato@ttrpg.network 1 month ago
“not all men!”
Enough men that most women would choose a fucking bear. Look in the mirror: you’re the problem.
Zorque@kbin.social 1 month ago
You're conflating what you think argument is with what the article was actually about.
Mango@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Wanna be safe from men? Do it the same way men do. Be able to handle yourself when you need to and don’t worry about it the rest of the time. Women having to listen to men and be confronted with reality is not mansplaining.
medgremlin@midwest.social 1 month ago
How does “being able to handle yourself” apply when someone else has removed your ability to handle yourself with drugs or alcohol? How does it apply when your choices are “go along with it and try to escape later” or “fight back and probably lose because you have less muscle mass and are physically smaller than them”?
How does your argument apply when you are a teenage girl in high school being harassed by adult men? Reality is a very different place when the world perceives you as a woman (or girl), and your prescriptivist approach entirely fails to account for the fact that your perspective has a lot of blind spots in it.
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 1 month ago
That’s funny. I’m finding it brings me closer to the women to understand them better.
rab@lemmy.ca 1 month ago
But it doesn’t, this debate just makes women hate men even more
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 1 month ago
More than the rape did? That’s fuckin impressive.
AnalogyAddict@lemmy.world 1 month ago
The fact that men are debating this is disgusting, so yeah.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 month ago
If this is pushing women away from you then sit down and think about why that might be.
platypus_plumba@lemmy.world 1 month ago
I would rather be in the forest with a Chutulu than a woman. It’s true because I said it on the internet.
Do you really think given the REAL choice women would be that stupid? This is insulting the intelligence of women. Any rational person would chose to be with another person than a wild animal.
I can’t believe we’re even taking this poll seriously. Look, I’m all in for women’s rights but these are just unbearable (ha) levels of stupidity.
Honestly, what the fuck is happening to society, this is fucking sickening. Yes, we need to improve as a society. No, women would not really choose the wild bear, it’s a fucking internet poll, not reality. Fuck.
Neato@ttrpg.network 1 month ago
You fit the description of my first sentence in my previous comment.
platypus_plumba@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Because I called out that the poll is bullshit and women would really pick a man 10/10 times?
Neato@ttrpg.network 1 month ago
Lol. You’re the man people pick bears over.
Test_Tickles@lemmynsfw.com 1 month ago
The fact that you think this is somehow pithy and not just demeaning and dehumanizing is what makes you the problem.
If we swapped the sexes in the scenario, or changed it from men and women to black people and white people, you would be screaming your head off about hate speech and racism. Your extreme narcissism might be the reason you have had such a bad history with men. I suspected that only the worst kind of men are willing to put up with your shit.
I would choose the bear over any person that would choose the bear.Neato@ttrpg.network 1 month ago
Pretending men and their societies aren’t a unique problem is misogyny. This isn’t applicable to taxes, nationalities or other issues. This is the patriarchy. And you’re supporting rape culture by pretending it doesn’t exist.
Mango@lemmy.world 1 month ago
No. The bear choice is misandry clean and clear. The men who don’t like the idea of misandry are just reacting the same way as anyone when you give them a label and call them bad for it.
I’m sure there’s some bear people who are just cool with bears and whatnot or maybe would just rather be alone.
pachrist@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Nah, the choice is between a being that will likely leave you alone and one that likely won’t. Most people who aren’t seeking contact want to be left alone. Interestingly enough, most bears want to be left alone too. As people, we need to allow others the distance and boundaries they want. The best way to befriend someone is to make them feel comfortable around you. Space and respect are important.
If a woman prefers the bear, maybe consider treating her like one. Treat her with respect, don’t make sudden movements, give her space, don’t mess with her cubs, and don’t pressure her into going to a local bar with a really neat vibe.
STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Honestly, no matter what side of the debate you are on its still dystopian to think that women would actually think to go to a bear over a random man when faced with the choice.
I am being introspective about this though. We created a culture of fear. A lot of it is through the consequences of rape culture and I think a large part is through an unhealthy about of true crime that’s being made. Constantly blasting worse case scenarios into people’s heads. I dunno, I just despise how we all just accepted not to trust one another and it seems like we’ve all just accepted that this to way to be about it. I just see it as a example of the alienation being pushed by capitalism.
It’s makes me a little mad tbh. Being perfectly honest it should make everyone mad. Like tbh I still think going with a random guy is the correct answer to this but we all should come together, look at this whole situation and realise the dystopian implications of this.
Pronell@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Yes! Thank you!
Does it hurt that women feel that way? Of course it does, so let’s work to be better so that random people can trust each other!
Angrily lashing out at the women who are pondering the benefits of a bear isn’t gonna help.
Be someone a woman would feel safe to be around. Call it out when those around you fail that test.
Create that safer environment. It isn’t impossible.
tiefling@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 month ago
Thank you for demonstrating healthy masculinity. The rest of this thread is a trainwreck of victim blaming.
ChocoboRocket@lemmy.world 1 month ago
I totally understand why women would pick bear, as bear society doesn’t bend over backwards to victimize women.
Most power structures cater to the people who abuse power, police, church, courts etc all tend to go crazy easy on men who abuse women.
Republicans want to take away women’s rights/independence, police who assault women are often protected and don’t face consequences, and most religions literally view women as a subspecies that serve men.
Maybe the average man is totally normal and helpful, but the history of violence between men and women is like 98% men killing women with heaps of Rape, confinement, physical/mental abuse etc.
The worst any Bear could do is kill someone in 1-2 minutes.
It’s also incredibly loaded in that being alone in the woods with a bear is “natural” and being alone in the woods with a strange man already sounds like a horror movie plot/murder news story.
There’s also the constant “stranger danger” fear women will pretty much always experience because men can pretty consistently and easily overpower most women. All women seem to know at least one or more women who have been sexually assaulted, or had their drink spiked etc, so it’s not some obsession with crime shows or scary movies driving this fear.
Answer ratios would probably change depending on the area, would women be less inclined to pick bear if they were in a library instead of the woods because it’s unnatural for a bear to be in that environment?
cannibalkitteh@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 month ago
Ultimately, bear is the less complicated decision, not entirely because it is without danger, but because it is not subject to gaslighting. Most people understand that a bear attack is bad and won’t raise concerns about how you led the bear on or that what you were wearing was to blame.
Drusas@kbin.run 1 month ago
Although, if you live somewhere that grizzlies are common, and you're out hiking or biking without a bear bell, there will be some judgment on what you were (not) wearing.
/used to live in Alaska
captainlezbian@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Yeah I’m probably more comfortable with strange men in a library than strange bears. The woods are where strange bears go. The library is where strange people go.
Now if I have them making advances towards me, bear in a library 100%. My local bears are black bears and they can be scared off easier than some men.
Neato@ttrpg.network 1 month ago
I agree totally with the first sentiment but I don’t think the recent prevalence of True Crime media really plays into it at all. This is not a new thing. Women have been making these risk assessment decisions for generations in the modern age. Girls are taught this kind of thing with how to protect themselves at a young age.
This is primarily a cultural issue and it won’t change unless the majority of people propagating (intentionally or not) realize what’s happening and work to change.
STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world 1 month ago
I dunno, the media and its relationship to crime is well documented. Many people accept that old people that panic about inner city crime despite it being at a record low since the 1970s are victims of this phenomenon. Why is it difficult to believe that young women who consume a lot of true crime content aren’t also effected by this phenomenon in some way. I have studied psychology and I did do a journalism course which, admittedly, I dropped out of. I just don’t like how fear based society has become. People are just too quick to assume the absolute worst and I kinda view this bear question as a reflection on that.
RoquetteQueen@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
I don’t know a single woman who hasn’t been at the very least harrassed by men they don’t know. I know so, so many who have been assaulted, and that’s just the women who have chosen to share their experience. Thinking your couple college classes means you know more about women’s experiences than women themselves is ridiculous.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 month ago
The media is bad but the sexual assault and harassment statistics are sobering. And they’re highly under reported because enforcement is often a joke.
It’s not an exaggeration to say most women either know someone who was assaulted or harassed, or they were themselves. And it was likely while they were a teenager. That kind of lesson doesn’t come from MTV.
orrk@lemmy.world 1 month ago
no, true crime definitely plays into this, because the question is not asking “what is safer”, but “what feels safer”, and while it’s not inherently wrong for anyone to mistrust random people, especially women in decently large parts of society, this is a feeling question, and like it or not, but Society does consist of the stories we tell ourselves and others, and while we still have a long way to go, you can not argue that women are less safe now than during the 50s - 60s - 70s - 80s, yet the perception of many people is that it has scarcely ever been more dangerous, and that also has a reason.