Would you prefer if games had a separate difficulty setting for boss fights?

Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨ArmoredCavalry@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨games@lemmy.world⁩

I usually play games on “normal” difficulty these days, for a balanced challenge. However, I don’t particularly enjoy boss fights, or at least I don’t enjoy the extra challenge associated with them. Was thinking it would be nice if games had a separate setting so I could just set boss fights to “easy”, while not making the rest of the game less challenging as well.

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bh11235@infosec.pub ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
A lot of games allow you to adjust the difficulty mid game. I’ve played several games on “ultra masochist hard” only to lower the difficulty for the bullshit final boss (looking at you Kena).

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- ArmoredCavalry@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  That’s actually what I tend to do, but would be nice (for laziness) to have two different settings. Or for cases where games don’t allow adjustment after starting.
  
  Funny you bring up Kena, because that is actually probably a prime example for me too. Loved the rest of the game, but the boss fights were a bit too difficult imo!
  
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Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Around 2010, I remember this game studio sharing a innovative technique of game design where as people failed a boss battle, the game would slowly make the battle easier.

Some companies ran with it. Nintendo gives you extra help if you die multiple times in a level. Where some studios do it more behind the scenes. For example - giving you a bit more ammo. Or slowing the boss down a little more. I can’t remember the game, but they have a feature where a boss can’t one-shot you. And they give you more of those the more you die, so it “feels fair”.

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- SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Making the boss easier after I die to it would frustrate the hell out of me unless it was optional. I want it to be a challenge, not just something I can beat if I dir enough times.
  
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  - Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    The best part is… You’d never know!
    
    A lot of these are only known years later, with devs sharing game design stories.
    
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  - RGB3x3@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    You’d have to die a few times to it too even notice it getting easier. Almost nobody wants to grind out a boss 20 times in order to beat it. And if properly done, the variables changed are so small each time, that it’s not noticeable.
    
    It’s a system to help everyone enjoy the game without quitting out of frustration. Because the majority of people, in general, quit after a bit too much resistance.
    
    There’s a quick drop off of enjoyment when a player feels the game is too difficult.
    
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- catastrophicblues@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Zelda games have a neat scaling mechanism. If an idiot like me could beat the final boss in a couple tries, anyone can. And it’s super fun too.
  
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hh93@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Depending on the game I’d even do the opposite.

I don’t care for the 20th fight against bandits to be hard - but a boss should feel like more of a challenge and take more time to finish.

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- setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  In certain circumstances, I agree. I am currently playing The Outer Worlds RPG. In the game there is a companion quest which culminates in fighting a “Mantinqueen”- a giant monster space bug. There is a ton of build up to it. The monster had previously killed the companion’s entire mercenary group. The lair was spooky and atmospheric.
  
  Problem was, mantiqueens were creatures I’d already fought in the open world. I could demolish one is about a minute with my upgraded weapons. This made the boss fight underwhelming.
  
  I wouldn’t want the solution to be just tacking on more healthpoints, but there are other options to make the boss creature more interesting to fight and the game took none of them.
  
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- MeepMorp@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I’m playing Jedi: Survivor on story mode right now and this is exactly how I feel. It’s a shame because even on story mode, boss fights in Fallen Order were still a little challenging.
  
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- Chobbes@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Yeah I was going to say… in many cases bosses seem to be easier than the normal fights. The bosses sort of focus on being a novel gimmick with easily telegraphed attacks, which often ends up being easier than normal fights in some games.
  
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shadowSprite@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I agree. I honestly hate boss battles. I love playing video games on hard mode, but for some reason boss battles have never filled my soul with joy or given me a sense of satisfaction when I’m done. They just irritate me. I definitely have games where I’m on the hardest difficulty for normal game play and then right before every boss battle I’m going into settings changing the difficulty to story mode so I can knock them down in 5 hits and move on with the game.

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cabbagee@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I’ve come to firmly believe that all games should have an invulnerability setting for the sake of accessibility. It’s probably one of the easier settings to implement for most games and it would have the most impact for the wide range of accessibility needs out there.

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- NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  That’s called cheating, and there’s usually a way to do it in most games.
  
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  - cabbagee@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    If it’s pvp then sure it’s cheating but why would it be cheating for a single player game? Is the point not to have fun?
    
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- teft@startrek.website ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I like Jedi: Survivor’s method of accessibility. They let you slow down the game if you need a little more leeway with the bosses. You can crank that slider down to like 10% speed and it’s like being Neo in that scene where he dodges bullets. You can still fuck up but it’s pretty easy. I used it for the platforming because I hate platforming so much.
  
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- ArmoredCavalry@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Agreed, I think the first game I saw this in was Tunic. It was a great addition!
  
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  - cabbagee@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Control for me! It was mind blowing for me. Not a difficult game but it really improved my ability to enjoy the game at some points.
    
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setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
That is a question where the answer is so massively complex. You’d have to break down different game design philosophies, think them through, and then apply and tweak them to specific games.

In general, I have two gut reactions:

If players are desiring to change the difficulty of the bosses compared to the rest of the game, the devs have to ask if there is a failure of design on their part. An example of this would be Dues Ex Human Revolution, which was an immersive sim that supported many different character builds, except the boss fights which were entirely based on combat. This created a frustrating and unfair situation to players not making a combat built character. The solution was that the boss fights were completely redesigned in the Director’s Cut release to support alternate builds. This is one example, but naturally there are many more. If a game has a “that boss”, the devs should look at it and examine if there is a problem with the design.

A popular game is going to get mods. If there is a strong desire in the player base, the mod is going to happen regardless of dev stubbornness, so devs may as well just give the people what they want. If a game is praised but has outcry for boss difficulty sliders, either put it in officially or incorporate it into the sequel.
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rustyriffs@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Yeah that’s relatable.

#Adultgamers

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- ArmoredCavalry@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Right? When I was a kid I would specifically enjoy the “challenge” of trying to beat something over and over. Nowadays though… I just like playing a game for the experience. I still like feeling “progression”, so things go from difficult to easy as my character advances. But having to repeat something multiple times? Eh… just not my jam anymore.
  
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  - SaltySalamander@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    As a kid I enjoyed the cheats. As an adult? I way way prefer the challenge.
    
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  - rustyriffs@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I used to feel like I didn’t get my money’s worth until I beat a game. That quickly fell out. I just measure a game’s worth by my enjoyment of it now.
    
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SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Super Mario Bros Wonder threads this needle expertly, in my opinion.

Each level has a difficulty rating from 1 to 5 stars with 1 being easiest and 5 being “Mario Hard.”

To complete the main story, you only really need to beat mostly the easier levels, like difficulty 1-3 stars. All other levels are really optional, but there are a lot of them, and they are the 4-5 stars level difficulty.

So the “main game” by default should be “easy enough” for most gamers, and for those who want a challenge, there are tons of extra challenges for them to pursue.

I think I prefer this to a “difficulty setting” because it allows both casual and hardcore gamers to approach the same game in different ways. It doesn’t make you feel like you are missing anything from either way you choose to play. It also allows you to practice the harder levels if you want to get better.

Some games like Halo, if I recall correctly, literally rewarded you with special cutscenes for the hardest difficulty in beating the game. That can leave players who “aren’t good enough” for such high difficulty to feel a bit left out.

I don’t feel the same about Super Mario Bros Wonder, it just feels pretty accessible to all and I think more companies need to attempt something similar.

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- Deestan@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Another thing Wonder does well with difficulty is letting the yoshis be invulnerable and less complex (no form change).
  
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  - SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I forgot to mention that! Yeah the nigh invulnerability for struggling players is a huge help.
    
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- morphballganon@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  
  Some games like Halo, if I recall correctly, literally rewarded you with special cutscenes for the hardest difficulty in beating the game. That can leave players who “aren’t good enough” for such high difficulty to feel a bit left out.
  
  Those players can either youtube it or keep trying.
  
  I beat Reach on SLASO (minus the skull that hides your HUD after the first level) and it would have been less satisfying if the game made it easier when I died.
  
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ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I prefer games that use reactionary difficult (idk what the proper term is) where the difficulty changes based on how well you do.

Kicking too much ass? Here’s more enemies and they hit harder.

Getting gangbanged at every turn? Fewer enemies and they’re easier to kill.

This seems like the best way to make sure everyone playing has a fun experience

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- avatar@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I don’t know if I want to be punished for doing well
  
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- rivalary@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I’m the complete opposite. I don’t want to feel like the game is letting me win. I want to earn it, at least a little.
  
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- simple@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I hate that. Nothing is more enraging than dying and having the loading screen say something like “hey, you suck, do you want to go back to normal difficulty?” No, no I don’t. Difficulty is part of the enjoyment fot me, having a feature that takes it out of my control would be a turnoff.
  
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Heavybell@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Sure, I’m generally in favour of more options when feasible. Hell, if someone wants to skip 90% of a single player game, more power to them. Hell, any non-competitive online game too, though I doubt many publishers would consider not charging extra for it…

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mojo@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
No that makes no sense lol

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terrehbyte@ani.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I think my preference would be to have the game offer to reduce the difficulty temporarily after failing or offer other forms of support to make the boss encounter easier. If I selected Hard then I probably want the challenge of Hard, but if this difficulty spike is too much, then smoothing it out could be acceptable.

This is also ideally in addition to a way to adjust the difficulty mid-game as needed, of course.

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RogueBanana@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Would be nice if there was a dynamic difficulty that constantly changes based on how well your performing. You can always have a hard fought and be victorious but just barely to have a great experience. Would need a different implementation to have some penalty or reduce reward for not performing well so you will be motivated to try your best. Although properly implementing that is definetely a difficult task but seems possible enough to hope for. The closest thing I can imagine is hades that gradually increases damage resistance each time you die and I really like that implementation for a rougelike. I am someone who likes a bit of challenge but will definitely lose interest if I have to repeat something multiple times. Hades is an exception as each runs varies a lot but soulslike game that you have to try multiple times to learn and defeat a boss is a massive turn off for me.

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Pxtl@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
To me this seems like solving the wrong problem. Ever since Souls, too many games get obsessed about making their boss encounters challenging but making the main level gameplay just tedious filler. AC6 missions often feel like that. Imho the correct action is to refine the gameplay and figure out your core loop, instead of having massive difficulty spikes.

This is the gameplay equivalent of the “Whisper and Explosion” problem.

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AceFuzzLord@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Totally depends on the game. Some games, like Ratchet and Clank Size Matters, yes for the final boss. Games like Brok The InvestiGator, no because I found the combat easy on the hardest difficulty.

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SandLight@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I wouldn’t mind but I also maybe wouldn’t use it. Even though I’m with you. Boys fights are fine set pieces but not really my favorite part most the time. I’ve had ribs of fun with with ring and DS3, but what I like about then is the setting, exploration, and tension moving from bonfire to bonfire.

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LwL@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I have the opposite issue, so yes. I don’t particularly enjoy having to constantly pay attention to every enemy, but I enjoy learning a boss fight for an hour or two. I’ve also played a few games where dealing with random enemies felt harder than dealing with bosses due to sheer numbers, and it would help with that too.

So I don’t think it’s really a design problem. If you know exactly what you want your game’s experience to be, then don’t add it. But I’d argue for most games it isn’t integral to the experience how the difficulty of normal mobs vs bosses compares, and people have different preferences for it.

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OrteilGenou@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I did this with Ghosts of Tsushima. I played on hard mode but when I dueled against other samurai I often dropped to easy mode after getting destroyed fifteen or twenty times

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telllos@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I think, a lot of games adjust the difficulty when you loose too many times. Don’t ask how I know…

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- SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  What if you tighten?
  
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