Google’s claim that search users have choice is “bogus,” Microsoft CEO tells judge

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• db2@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Dear Microsoft: I saw your shenanigans from Windows 3.1 onward, you gotta stop making me agree with you in 2023 because it makes me feel dirty. Thanks.

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• rizoid@midwest.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Microsoft is hardly one to be involved in this. They’re just as bad in different ways. But. As far as search goes, I think it’s incredibly simple to change search engines but the problem is Google doesn’t give users that choice up front when installing chrome but even if they did most people don’t give a shit and will just use Google anyway.

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  • danielton@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    And the fact that Chrome has a virtual monopoly on the browser market isn’t going to help them either. Other than Firefox and Safari, every other browser is Chrome, and most web devs only test on Chrome.

    It’s IE all over again, and I’m a bit scared that iOS’s app store restrictions are the only thing stopping Chrome from being a complete monopoly.

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    • nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      While one browser dominating is obviously bad, they at least won the market [roughly] fair and square. Unlike Microsoft which bundles it with their OS and makes it impossible to uninstall.

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  • abhibeckert@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I think it’s incredibly simple to change search engines

    It’s not though, because the other search engines all suck. I have changed my search engine, but I still keep going back to google all the time because it’s often the only way I can actually find the page I’m looking for.

    Microsoft’s point is they can’t create an accurate search engine because they just don’t have enough users to have reliable data on which pages should be the first result.

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    • archiotterpup@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I don’t think Google should be punished for having a superior product. If users prefer to use Google then the market has spoken. Users can still use Bing even though it sucks.

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    • bob_wiley@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      When I moved to DDG, I had to go back to Google all the time.

      With Kagi I never have to go back to Google. And on several occasions people who use Google asked me a question they couldn’t find an answer to and I found it in just a few minutes using Kagi. This saved the day at work once. We had 30 people on a call trying to solve some issue. They had been working for hours with no results. I joined, asked what was going on, did a couple searches in Kagi, and found an answer that was implemented and fixed the issue. 30 people on Google for hours couldn’t find anything useful.

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  • Pantoffel@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    There are really only two search engines. Its either Google or Bing. The others exist, but they use Google’s and/or Bing’s search results.

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    • bob_wiley@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Kagi factors them in, but then goes beyond that to produce much better results.

      help.kagi.com/kagi/…/search-sources.html

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    • avater@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      since when uses ddg google or bing ?

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• FooBarrington@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Funny they should say that, considering that Bing is deeply integrated into Windows, and users have literally no choice of another search engine.

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  • 4lan@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    And if you accidentally open edge you can’t even close the application without going through the setup process.

    They literally tried to force you to make a Microsoft account as set up and make it seem like you have no choice other than to make one.

    Microsoft is more guilty than Google

    Pro tip: enter no@thankyou.com and any password to bypass it

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    • AeroLemming@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Couldn’t you just kill it with task manager?

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• rivalary@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I feel I have less of a choice in operating system than I do browsers or search. Just saying.

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  • ichbinjasokreativ@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Modern Linux is amazing, just jyi

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    • rivalary@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I’ve boarded the Linux train but not everyone can replace their OS nor troubleshoot issues, and good luck bringing your computer to a repair shop if you do run Linux. For the average person, they need someone to help them whether it’s Windows or Linux.

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    • GONADS125@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Is it really a valid option for people outside the tech industry who don’t know programming and who play PC games?

      That’s an honest question, not a snide question.

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• BubblyMango@lemmy.wtf ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  While i agree with them, i do think Microsoft is attempting even worse steps in turning bing/edge into the next google: literally can open windows help links on any other browser, the task bar’s search functions are bing only, popups about using edge instead of chrome, defaulting 100 file types into edge.

  Those big companiew are shit. They all attempt the same stuff while blaming others for succeeding in doing so.

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• rebelsimile@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I do actively choose not to use Bing, though.

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• dingleberry@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Real choice is when your OS sells you boner pills.

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• danielfgom@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Hypocrite! Every time there’s a Windows update it makes Edge the default browser again. Without the user asking. They should look in mirror!

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  • SleepingTower@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    It does? I don’t recall that happening.

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    • PR_freak@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      It sneakily asks for Microsoft to select the most secure configuration for your system (or something similar)

      Which means setting edge and bing as default

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    • MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I’ve never had that happen and I’m always keeping up to date with Windows updates

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  • AustralianSimon@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    No it doesn’t 🤣

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• Joker@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Things could be better, but it’s a far cry from the IE monopoly days. It’s amusing to hear Microsoft complain. DDG and Kagi are both very good search engines and DDG is a built-in option on iOS. Kagi even requires a fee and it’s still blowing up in popularity. I think the real issue for Microsoft is nobody chooses Bing.

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  • Lmaydev@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I use bing. They’ve indexed way more porn than anyone else.

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    • gmtom@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Me too, they also pay me to use it

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• fubo@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Microsoft has been making users’ choices “bogus” since at least Windows 95.

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  • Jamie@jamie.moe ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Nah, they had some BS going on in DOS I’m pretty sure, too.

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    • 2xsaiko@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Yeah. What they did to DR-DOS, for example.

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• dangblingus@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  You know what would be refreshing? If someone in business could actually hold themselves accountable. For literally anything.

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• mx_smith@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  A better search engine is out there, it’s just not free.

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  • 1984@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I love it. Been an early adopter and uses it all day long, and it just works. Being able to rank sites and getting searches results that never show up on Google is worth every dollar. It feels like you actually see the entire web with this search engine again.

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  • Apothecary@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    SaaS is almost as big of an issue as the tech monopolies that sell them, imo. I’d be more interested if it was a one time purchase.

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  • Destraight@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    [deleted]

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    • bob_wiley@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      If someone offers you a meal of food for $5, or a punch in the face for free… do you think the punch in the face is a better deal too?

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    • redeven@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Subjectively, it might be better for you. Sure.

      It’s objectively better, functionally, than Google. Results tend to be better, more accurate, less ad-riddled, and you’re able to manually boost or block links to improve your own results.

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  • V0lD@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Checked the link. I literally can’t buy it as a European

    Because credit cards are a scam I refuse to partake in, and they seem to only accept American bank transfers

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    • yuriy@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      y’all don’t have debit cards in europe?

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    • happinessattack@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      They also accept cryptocurrency via OpenNode.

      Click the small link below the plans on the pricing page:

      For paying via PayPal or OpenNode, or without auto-renew, please click here.

      Details: help.kagi.com/kagi/plans/payment-methods.html

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  • joel_feila@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Oh like neeva. Might give it a look

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  • shortwavesurfer@monero.town ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I am on my trial period and am going to sign up when its over.

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  • Wyatt@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I’ve seen this mentioned so much, I’m gonna have to check it out.

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• kowcop@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I don’t feel trapped into Google for search… the fact is their search engine is better than everyone else’s. It is not like they are restricting my access to others

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  • Cranakis@lemmy.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    their search engine is better than everyone else’s

    It’s not though. You never even get to see what the competition would be because they lock competitors out of the market.

    I’m really happy about the case against them. This trial is uncovering a bunch of dirty tricks they use. They have far too much power and far too much of our data and are abusing it.

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    • 0xD@infosec.pub ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Google is 100% better than the rest. I switched to DDG a few months back and I regularly have to go back to google for technical stuff. DDG oftentimes does not even serve the homepage of a searched company on the first page of the results, lol.

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  • TheRealKuni@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I think it really depends on what you’re looking for. Google tends to be better about technical stuff, but Bing did really well for me in the old “Bing it on” challenge if I was searching for pop culture or game related stuff. Google always won for code and troubleshooting.

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• autotldr@lemmings.world [bot] ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  This is the best summary I could come up with:

  ---

  On Monday, Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella showed up at the Google antitrust trial to back the Department of Justice’s argument that “Google used unfair tactics”—most significantly, default search contracts—to block opportunities for search competitors like Bing, The Wall Street Journal reported.

  At the trial, Nadella said that in Silicon Valley, Internet search is “the biggest no-fly zone,” which the Journal characterized as “the hardest market to crack.”

  Third-party data showed that “Microsoft’s share of the search market has hardly budged” since adding AI features to Bing, but Google’s lead trial counsel, John Schmidtlein, argued that this was “a direct result of Microsoft’s missteps in Internet search,” not due to Google’s command of the market.

  Nadella also expressed significant concern that emerging AI technology—rather than providing opportunities for competitors like Bing—could ultimately further entrench Google’s dominance in search without the court’s interference.

  “In fact, if anything, I worry a lot that—even in spite of my enthusiasm that there is a new angle with AI—this vicious cycle that I’m trapped in could even become even more vicious because the defaults get reinforced.” He added: “This going to be even worse of a nightmare to make progress in search, because there’s a new avenue” for Google to “lock up essentially” the “thing that feeds” AI models, “which is content.”

  Nadella told the court that to Microsoft, search is “a hard game to make any breakthroughs, but no one can accuse us of not being persistent.”

  ---

  The original article contains 618 words, the summary contains 242 words. Saved 61%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

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• Asudox@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  @AutoTL;DR@lemmings.world

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  • autotldr@lemmings.world [bot] ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I just created the summary! You can find it at lemmings.world/comment/2529327. (I tried to create the link for your instance but I failed miserably, for which I’m very sorry).

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