Submitted 1 year ago by L4s@lemmy.world [bot] to technology@lemmy.world
Fully Charged in Just 6 Minutes – Groundbreaking Technique Could Revolutionize EV Charging::Typically, it takes around 10 hours to charge an electric vehicle. Even with fast-charging techniques, you’re still looking at a minimum of 30 minutes – and that’s if there’s an open spot at a charging station. If electric vehicles could charge as swiftly as we refill traditional gas vehicles, it wo
I’m sick of reading phones and cars charging in a matter of minutes for the past decade.
Don’t worry about it too much. These sorts of articles focus on battery tech, but the ultimate limiting factor is the ability of the plug to supply power.
A Tesla Model 3 has a 75kwh battery. Let’s say it’s at 20% charge. That’s 60kwh to get it full (assuming 100% charge efficiency). It would take 600kw to charge that in 6 minutes.
The SAE J1772 plug is only rated to go up to 400kw on DC level 2, and you’d be hard pressed to find a charger that does it. I couldn’t find info on Tesla’s plug, but since it’s about the same size, it’s likely around the same. Tesla’s superchargers are themselves only going up to 250kw.
It would take yet another plug standard, and chargers that can actually handle such a load. Oh, and upgrading the electrical network to handle such a beast in widespread use.
Most of which is pointless, anyway. EVs are best handled by giving them a little charge wherever they’re parked. For road trips, unless you’re the type to pee in a bottle and eat sandwiches you prepared ahead of time, about 300mi range with existing charge rates is sufficient.
The main problem I have with that 300-mile range is in winter. 500 km of range in Canada would be enough for my purposes, but when winter hits and that range is massively decreased, it wouldn’t quite be enough anymore. With winter being basically half the year here in Ontario, it’s a huge downside.
Didn’t think of this with this point of view
It’s a matter of power delivery at the moment. A modern rapid charger you can add about 10 miles a minute so 10 minutes is normally fine… barely enough time to have a cup of tea.
Getting power to a battery faster starts to become impractical simply because of the thickness of cable you’d need to do it, and the internal heat the battery would generate if you threw power at it that fast.
Think of it like a swimming pool. You can fill it with a small hose, might take an hour or two… bigger hose, maybe down to 30 minutes… you want it to be done in seconds? Sure… let me just turn up with this dump truck full of water…
I recently got a phone that charges at 65W, from empty to full in 30 minutes. It’s at least getting better all the time, I’d say
Try 3 decades
Well, you should stop reading because fast-charging is a thing now.
Oh look. Another “could revolutionize” article.
could
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No revolution is coming. Deal with it. But it’s also okay to have up to hour charges. Take a break, get some coffee and everything is fine. If you can sit 3h in traffic to work every day or sleep in front of the store on black friday so you can get 20% off on things you don’t need, you can sit every once in a while on long journeys. You need a break from driving anyway.
And like all battery advancements we will maybe get this in the next ten years.
If at all. A lot of published science turns out not to be usable to real products, if not completely wrong. For starters, someone else should replicate the findings independently, to confirm them, then the manufacturing process needs to be scaled and the cost reduced, then … someone will need to figure out how many MW this things need to charge in 6 minutes …
I asked gpt4 to explain this abstract in terms a high schooler would understand.
Sure, this text is talking about making better batteries. Right now, a type of material called “mixed transition metal oxides” has potential to be a really good component in batteries. But there are problems like they don’t hold as much energy as we’d like, they’re hard to make, and they don’t conduct electricity well.
So, the researchers made a new version of these materials, tweaking them with manganese and iron. They used a new, easier method to make super-thin sheets of this stuff. This new material can hold a lot of energy, way more than the old versions.
The thin sheets also let electric charges move more easily, which is good for battery performance. Plus, they made sure that the material doesn’t expand too much, which helps keep the battery stable over time.
So basically, they made a high-performance battery material that can be charged quickly, holds a lot of energy, and lasts a long time. It’s like creating a new recipe for a better, longer-lasting smartphone battery.
No it won’t. It’s bullshit.
I’ve seen these articles literally for the past 3 decades now. It’s all clickbait, it’s bullshit and will. Not. Happen.
All of these speedy innovations are great and everything, but they are impractical for most people. They will be useful for emergency situations and for long trips, but for the large majority of people driving electric vehicles their slow chargers in their houses will work just fine.
I love hearing about new ideas, but it’s annoying hearing them phrased like it’ll change the entire charging game. It doesn’t matter if they invent things that charge cars in 30 minutes. Most people will still be slow charging their car while they sleep.
The barrier to adoption is so often outlet scenarios though.
A vehicle is a huge purchase. For many it’s the largest purchase they will make. For everyone else it’s the second largest, behind their home.
It doesn’t matter if the average buyer isn’t likely to take longer trips frequently. What does matter is that those outlet scenarios can be conceivably accomplished without significant hassle. And before you say that’s not reasonable, consider that it doesn’t matter that it isn’t reasonable.
People base their purchase decisions on unreasonable factors all the time. How else do we explain how many trucks are on the road?
It does not matter that current charging methods cover 99% of scenarios for 99% of people. The glare of that 1% will shine a light brighter than the positives from the standpoint of widespread adoption. And from that perspective, news of a solution to slower charging is a very good thing.
Also slow chargers in houses will not work for many people. The majority of ICE drivers that won’t even consider an EV as an option yet live in apartment buildings which currently don’t have electric charging and likely won’t install them anytime soon, or live in areas without access to a driveway/garage (i.e. basement suites)
Yeah, when recently purchasing a car I ended up getting a hybrid rather than a plug-in hybrid or electric because I live in a townhouse that just has a parking spot. There isn’t a way to charge a vehicle overnight in my situation. If I could charge a vehicle in 6 minutes at a gas station or equivelant I could make an electric car work.
The more arguments that you can take away from ICE owners the better it will be for widespread EV adoption.
Time to recharge is ICE owners biggest complaints, next to single charge range.
Imo the way things stand things are already good enough as they are.
we don’t need to double battery capacity/distance or even charging speeds, it’s a massive waste of resources that won’t benefit the vast majority of people.
from quick google
Every day, there are some 70 Million (M) worldwide driving trips. The average trip duration globally is 15 minutes long. The average trip distance globally is 15 Kilometers / 9.3 miles. The average speed globally is 30 km/h (or) 18.6 mph
so even if you have a 200km worst case scenario range on your EV, unless you are one of those people that are on the road a lot, it literally covers like 99% of your car usage.
Hyundai EVs charge with 350Kw, to 80% in like 15m which is perfectly fine for a longer roadtrip imo. I used to travel 200kms every two weeks and in most cases I took a rest half way through the 2 hour trip anyway to stretch.
if you are one of those guys that will come on and say you drive 500+kms every day and BEV is just unacceptable for you, well guess what, just get a fucking Hydrogen EV, pretty sure those can get up to 1000km ranges already which is more than my Diesel Hyundai.
Faster charging means a lower chance of all the chargers are in use at the service stations en-route. Currently if you’re in need of a charge you’ll have to wait for the others cars to get charged and then you still have the 20+ minute wait for your own car. That’s going to put a lot of folks off owning an EV. Coupled with the fact the EV uptake is growing a lot faster than the charging infrastructure to support it. Faster charging has a lot of benefits.
except, the vast majority of your trips are from your home to some place and back, you charge at home and the range is more than enough to cover 90+% of your trips.
rather than focusing on super chargers (which we also need along high ways) we need to focus on smaller lvl 2 chargers at places where they make sense, apartment complexes, offices, to enable BEV use for people who don’t own a home with their own garage.
Average trip duration is not a great metric because they measure a trip as going from point A to point B. That’s great, but then I do six trips a day in errands.
Total miles per day is the metric to use. On average, in America, it’s 37 miles.
That is to say, EV cars would work for many people. But to reach the majority we need these advancements.
why? you literally say 37 miles, that means it’s already good enough for the majority.
Averages are useless. It does not matter if my car is fine most of the time, I’m not going to have a second car for when it is difficult or impossible.
Hydrogen is the other tech which makes quick refuelling possible, but there are not yet enough hydrogen refuelling stations to make them feasible for most drivers. And we don’t yet know if leaks can be controlled enough to make hydrogen a net positive for consumer applications.
Averages are useless. It does not matter if my car is fine most of the time
so what, you would want to triple your battery capacity because once a year you might need it?
I still don’t understand why people need ultra distance in EVs. If I drove as much as often as the “I need a million mile range” crew I’d take a good, long look at my life and what was wrong with it.
I mean, it could be part of the job they do, whatever, but people vastly overestimate what they actually need from a vehicle.
This thread is pure copium.
“Guys, go buy a more expensive car, but instead of taking 6 hours to get somewhere more now take an hour and a half. And if it’s a busy travel weekend maybe 3 hours. And don’t forget about the trip back.”
I’m all for EVs being successful but you all force feeding bullshit hand waving down people’s gullets ain’t helping.
The problem is you dismissing reality and inserting your insecurity onto electric cars.
Superchargers are a very big part of why Tesla is ahead of the curve, and you don’t charge 0-100, you charge 15-whatever you need to get where you’re going, which for my six hour drive was a 19 minute charge stop, where we watched Netflix, and I have the slowest charging Tesla.
Eh, 15 minutes of charge every 3 hours of driving is fine for me. Long distance is not a problem with the Tesla network. And it’s opening up for everyone else too soon. Hopefully it will cause competition for the other networks and force them to improve.
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/…/adfm.202300143
Abstract
Mixed transition metal oxides are promising anodes to meet high-performance energy storage materials; however, their widespread uses are restrained owing to limited theoretical capacity, restricted synthesis methods and templates, low conductivity, and extreme volume expansion. Here, Mn3-xFexO4 nanosheets with interconnected conductive networks are synthesized via a novel self-hybridization approach of a facile, galvanic replacement-derived, tetraethyl orthosilicate-assisted hydrothermal process. An exceptionally high reversible capacity of 1492.9 mAh g−1 at 0.1 A g−1 is achieved by producing Li-rich phase through combined synergistic effects of amorphous phases with interface modification design for fully utilizing highly spin-polarized surface capacitance. Furthermore, it is demonstrated that large surface area can effectively facilitate Li-ion kinetics, and the formation of interconnected conductive networks improves the electrical conductivity and structural stability by alleviating volume expansion. This leads to a high rate capability of 412.3 mAh g−1 even at an extremely high current density of 10 A g−1 and stable cyclic stability with a capacity up to 921.9 mAh g−1 at 2 A g−1 after 500 cycles. This study can help to overcome theoretically limited electrochemical properties of conventional metal oxide materials, providing a new insight into the rational design with surface alteration to boost Li-ion storage capacity.
Diplomjodler@feddit.de 1 year ago
What a bullshit article. While better anode materials are always nice, these claims about charging speed are just dumb. That’s only so much power you can push into a battery and today’s 350 KW chargers are probably already the practical limit. And if you can’t take a 20 minute break every 400 km or so, you should go home and rethink your life.
ShittyRedditWasBetter@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Jesus Christ lolol, Imagine attacking people because they don’t want to spend an half hour or more waiting on charging.
Poor baby can’t deal with physics so you lash out and pretend like waiting wasting hours on longer trips.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 year ago
If you’re going on a long trip and don’t want to wait for charging, there are plenty of gas-powered options available to you.
Fondots@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Really though, if you’re reaching the end of your battery capacity with a lot of EVs out there today, you’ve probably been driving for about 3-4 hours or so, if not longer, the general recommendations I’ve seen are you should really stop and get a 15 minute break about every 2 hours to stretch your legs, prevent fatigue, increase alertness, etc.so that’s pretty much in line with the recommendations. I know that’s pretty much the rhythm I and most other people I’ve ridden with tend to fall into on road trips without even trying. And very often despite my best efforts, rest stops tend to end up lasting around a half hour anyway because of checkout or bathroom lines, or one of my travel companions taking their time ordering food or getting distracted somewhere.
I get that some people can just power through much longer drives, and I’ve occasionally done it, but honestly it’s probably for the best if people are made to stop every couple hours and hit the reset button on their brains, a lot of people are shitty enough drivers when they’re fresh and well-rested, let alone after theyve been screaming down the interstate at 70mph for hours, and their brain is getting fatigued.
Kushan@lemmy.world 1 year ago
That’s a very defensive response. You’re mocking the above poster because they “can’t deal with physics” but you seem to be neglecting biology yourself.
Driving something like 400km would take a good 4-6 hours depending on traffic. As a flesh and blood human you need to at least stop for the toilet, you should eat something to keep your energy levels up and you must always stay hydrated. Sure, you can power your body through that, but you can also power your body through 48 hours without sleep or an entire KFC bucket of chicken all to yourself - just because you can doesn’t mean you should or that it’s healthy. The difference in this case is that fatigue can lead to deaths, not just your own but whatever poor sucker you happened to drive into because you have been driving for 6 hours straight and lost concentration at just the wrong time.
Please do come back and claim that you don’t lose concentration and that you don’t need to stop every few hours because your reaction times and concentration levels are just fine. There isn’t a human on the planet that can make such a claim. Again: just because you can does not mean you should.
Exec@pawb.social 1 year ago
In the EU it’s mandated by law to rest after a few hours of driving. You shouldn’t be driving 9 hours continuously like ever.
Diplomjodler@feddit.de 1 year ago
Congratulations. That’s the dumbest take I’ve read on social media in weeks. That’s downright Reddit levels of stupidity. Why don’t you slink off back into whatever hole you crawled out from?
kameecoding@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Hyundai EVs that use 350KW charging get to 80% in 15 minutes.
if you are in the very-very small percentage that needs faster fueling and more range you will have Hydrogen options.
Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
I was thinking that this is one of those thousands of battery technologies we will never hear about again.
Jimmycakes@lemmy.world 1 year ago
That’s a weak ass road trip. My car gets 400 miles per tank and we don’t stop until it needs gas again. 400km is chump change on American roads.
Diplomjodler@feddit.de 1 year ago
That’s very reckless of you. Regular breaks are required to be able to drive safely. If you don’t take breaks you are being irresponsible and endangering your own life and those of others.
zoe@infosec.pub 1 year ago
if the charging time is the limit. people who prefer to drive 800km at a time could use an extra battery pack. that way a 20 min could be justified for them lol
tony@lemmy.hoyle.me.uk 1 year ago
That’s literally the law in many countries - commercial drivers (who are the kinds of people who would be driving those kinds of distances) have to take a 45 minute break every 4.5 hours. Because it’s unsafe to not do so.