No we didn’t win. This is Google making it harder to install the programs you want, rather than the programs Google wants you to have.
Did we win?
Submitted 2 weeks ago by Mynameisallen@lemmy.zip to technology@lemmy.world
Comments
RamRabbit@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
morto@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
So, we will have to enable developer mode for that? How long before banking and government apps refuse to run if you have “sideloaded” apps installed? This will be the same as not allowing the majority of people to sideload. No win in here, just an advanced strategy from google to make us conform
osaerisxero@kbin.melroy.org 2 weeks ago
This is already the case if the developer mode toggle is enabled for some. I have to turn it off any time I'm traveling for work because the app we have to use to file expense reports refuses to run with developer mode enabled.
HuudaHarkiten@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
At that point you should tell your work to get a work only device for you… I always refuse to use my phone for work shit. I used to explain to them why, now I just lie and say my device is too old to have anything installed on it.
RoddyStiggs@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
You should NEVER be using work apps on a personal device. EVER.
morto@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
But what if they starting requiring that you remove the sideloaded apps? We’re getting trapped
frongt@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Or if you’re rooted, or run something other than your OEM image. I use grapheneos and I’m lucky that my bank doesn’t enforce that like some do. I still can’t use cards to tap with Google wallet because it’s not certified by Google.
LedgeDrop@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
I totally agree.
I am so tired of this “slow boil”, bs.
SkavarSharraddas@gehirneimer.de 2 weeks ago
Yeah, if that process wouldn't need developer mode (or stayed active after disabling it again) that wouldn't be that bad (still annoying). But having to choose between the ability to install apps or use those apps that only work without developer mode certainly isn't a win.
Mynameisallen@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Huh I’m unfamiliar with this, but I’ve been running graphene for years and before that lineage
over_clox@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Riddle me this, why do people use banking apps in the first place? Why put all your financial data in an eggshell just waiting to get dropped or stolen?
Bank cards have had the whole tap to pay thing for quite a while now. I drop my phone, busted. I drop my bank card, it’s fine, I just pick it right back up, and it stays in my wallet, not in my hand where it’s infinitely more likely to get lost or stolen.
You want a banking app, do so from your home computer, not a fragile mobile device literally designed to fail if it so much as falls out of your hands.
Anyways, riddle me that…
cecilkorik@piefed.ca 2 weeks ago
Because they incentivize it. Some banks are better at incentivizing it than others. My bank for example, allows the highest daily limit (by a factor of 5x) if you use the app. Online banking has a lower limit, and cards lower still. I don’t appreciate them holding my own money hostage, but the sad reality we live in precludes me from having enough remaining mental bandwidth and effort reserve to commit it to fighting against it in such an empty and unwinnable battle. Money is a scam anyway.
grue@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The only thing I use my bank app for is to deposit checks. It can’t be done from the desktop because it needs the phone camera to take photos of the check.
morto@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
I don’t know how online banking access is around the world, but here in brazil, they made it completely impractical to use from computers by applying artificial restrictions. Some payment institutions doesn’t even support access from computers anymore. Meanwhile, accessing from the phones has been made easier and less restrictive, so basically everyone has to do banking from the phone. It has even become a popular thing to have a separate “banking phone” to use at home, but many people can’t affort that.
jabberwock@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
In the US, I largely agree with you. Or use a website from a mobile browser. Different story in different countries where a smartphone might be the only compute the average person has, or where state services are tied to a mobile ID or bank app.
Not saying that should be the case, but if the choice is between running niche FOSS apps and removing yourself from societal benefits structures, I know what most people will pick. That’s the real danger of allowing one company to own an entire ecosystem and have enough power that they have conversations directly with governments about their people instead of with their people.
Thrawn@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
I have a concrete and very stupid example.
We got a large gift card as an incentive to renew our lease at our current apartment vs moving. The format they sent it in had no physical card and would only work on either online stores or through a service like Google Wallet AKA a banking app on a mobile device as you mentioned.
So to get groceries while waiting on a tax refund (thanks crappy American economy and taxation methods) we had no choice but to connect and use it that way.
pirate2377@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Microsoft appeared to walk back Recall until they suddenly brought it back unannounced and doubled down. So I’ll believe it when I see it
yakko@feddit.uk 2 weeks ago
Yeah corpos don’t respect consumers or norms of human dignity, they’ll just do what they want more quietly if you complain. The only real solution is to break up monopolies (ideally for the last several decades).
aesthelete@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Can someone please come out with a phone that’s an actual computer and help stop this nonsense?
Phones cost a lot of money at this point and I’m completely sick of them being some locked down, surveillance ridden pile of crap. A reasonably built one would be able to replace a laptop at this point if it weren’t for these artificial constraints imposed by these stupid fucking suits running things.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Steam should make a Linux phone. Smaller Steam Deck with a modem
TrippinMallard@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
Battery life is limited by cell modem drivers being closed source and having to be reverse engineered.
muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
I like the idea of a continuum capable module desktop like canonical and Microsoft promised years ago.
HexaBack@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
furilabs flx1s. I’m using one
Fontasia@feddit.nl 2 weeks ago
www.www3.planetcom.co.uk/astro-slide-5g
This sounds up your ally
communism@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
Pretty sure they meant a smartphone with a desktop OS installed on it (eg Linux phones), not just “phone that looks kinda like a laptop but still uses Android”
Kailn@lemmy.myserv.one 2 weeks ago
There, exacly what you want.
Here’s a more budget one.GPD has been making “mini laptops” for a long while, now they try to make similar gaming handheld.
I’m not sponoered nor I’ve bought this for myself. (yet)kepix@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
dude. you can just install a custom rom.
ranzispa@mander.xyz 2 weeks ago
As long as your phone model is supported by any custom mod. I have checked compatibility for almost all smartphones I owned, some 7 or 8 through the years.
Not a single one of them was ever supported by a custom mod.
muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Intentionally non-standard hardware does not get a real custom rom. It’s just a mod of Android which Google can render intentionally incompatible any time they want
SomeDudeFromSpace@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
We will win when nobody can tell you what you can or can’t put in your own fucking device.
invertedspear@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Counterpoint: my software allows you to access your banking needs. I’m financially on the hook if fraud occurs. Fraud occurs because your favorite “slap the monkey” game also installs a keylogger and network monitor. So I don’t allow my software to work if you have that installed.
I think you’re right that companies should not be able to tell you what software you can run, but users also can’t be trusted to keep their devices safe.
A lot of network, banking, and telephony protocols historically rely on trusting that there are no bad actors in the chain. Technology has added more links to the chain increasing the opportunities for bad actors to tap into it.
It’s a situation that needs better fixes. Maybe we just need to hand the current internet over to the bots and start a new one with security and privacy built in from the ground up.
OrganicMustard@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Android runs apps sandboxed, so no app can access what you write in another like your banking app, or the unencrypted packages it sends.
feannag@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Maybe banks could use a way to authenticate the user a second way, that doesn’t involve a password. If only. (Sidenote: why do banks still insist on sms 2FA?)
kkj@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
You’re liable if someone shares their credentials? Even if they did it accidentally by installing a keylogger, that seems like user error.
Zak@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
A lot of network, banking, and telephony protocols historically rely on trusting that there are no bad actors in the chain. Technology has added more links to the chain increasing the opportunities for bad actors to tap into it.
Their wish to break the first rule of network security (you can’t trust the client) shouldn’t be everyone else’s problem.
MisterFrog@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
If your software runs on windows or MacOS, this point is such bull, sorry.
Do you monitor what software people have installed accessing their banking needs on those platforms?
osanna@lemmy.vg 2 weeks ago
It’s not side loading. It’s installing software on the device you probably paid multiple thousands for that you no longer own.
Zoomboingding@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Multiple thousands!? My phone was like $250
signup@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
not all people are americans
jeffep@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
That’s multiple thousands in some countries
Mynameisallen@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Lol same, I spent $250 on a used pixel 8, threw grapheneos on it the day I got it. Honestly my dream scenario right now is that sailfish let’s me just purchase a sailfish X license for a community port
paultimate14@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Congratulations!
Shellofbiomatter@lemmus.org 2 weeks ago
Multiple thousands!? No phone isn’t worth that much. Bloody marketing brainwashing people into accepting exorbitant prices for everything.
zod000@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
This isn’t a win, this is Google making things shitty for the benefit of no one but themselves.
smeg@infosec.pub 2 weeks ago
- enable developer options
- confirm that you are not tricked
- restart phone and re-authenticate
- wait one day
- confirm with biometrics that you know what you are doing
- decide if you only want unrestricted installs for 1 week or forever
- confirm that you accept the risks
- enjoy the few apps that still have developers motivated to develop for a user-base willing to put up with this
SuspciousCarrot78@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
- Fuck that, keep an old phone and don’t update it
- When it breaks, buy a Linux phone. Or a dumbphone.
- Only way to win? Don’t play their game
commander@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Still worse than it was before. There’s no win in that
kilgore_trout@feddit.it 2 weeks ago
To call the install of apps of your choice as «sideloading», means that they have won.
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
That’s the name of the command, though. It’s
adb sideload. Anything else is installing.
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net 2 weeks ago
I’m writing an app that I will distribute only through f-droid. The people I would like to share it with are typical, non-technical android users. Before those changes I could just send them a link to f-droid apk and explain it’s just another app store or send a link to the apk directly and probably most of them would be able to install it. Now I would have to tell them to do all those weird things first, things that look suspicious and that they would not understand the purpose of. I don’t think anyone will be wiling to do it. This is not a win. The effect will be exactly the same - serious limits on distributing apps though alternative channels.
xcjs@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
I do not consider a win, and I will continue applying pressure where I can.
Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Please share how
sonofearth@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It is always like this. Make a very anti competitive decision that everyone hates, then tone it down so the half of those people will say “we won”. This is a loss.
Zoomboingding@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Reading the article it looks like they found a decent middle ground. It lays out how the steps help prevent people from getting scammed.
entwine@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
If antitrust was being enforced, Google execs wouldn’t even dream of attempting this bullshit.
Antitrust regulation is probably the easiest way to fix the biggest problems in our society, it is 100% bipartisan, and it is easy to explain to the average US voter. The only group that is against it is the billionaires/ultra wealthy. Instead, politicians are all hyperfocused on culture war mudslinging and bullshit that makes no difference.
Break up Apple, Google, Microsoft, Amazon, and Meta (just to start), and watch how the tech industry explodes with innovation again, and the tech billionaire becomes an endangered species. The AI bubble will burst as companies actually need to compete to survive, and thus won’t be burning as much resources on crap that clearly doesn’t work.
Fedditor385@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I, as the owner of my device, don’t want to wait 24h.
I hope this will popularize the ROM community again. It gradually faded out due to mainstream ROMs having every perk of the custom ROMs but now the custom ROMs can start offering freedom, which no official ROM will offer.
aquovie@lemmy.cafe 2 weeks ago
Is there a tap to pay system that works on custom ROMs? I thought those really required SafetyNet/PlayIntegrity/Whatever-it-is-now.
I would rather not give up tap to pay but I will if I have to. It seems like trying to Magisk my way into getting Google Wallet to work would be a PITA.
signup@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
I, as the owner of my device, don’t want to wait 24h.
then dont. adb is instant
Tiger_Man_@szmer.info 2 weeks ago
“”““sideloading””“”, oh look who cant say installing software
techt@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
“Sideloading” is the “jaywalking” of the mobile space
CubitOom@infosec.pub 2 weeks ago
“side loading” == installing
icedaemon0@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yes. It is the same thing. Google is just trying to gaslight people.
org@lemmy.org 2 weeks ago
Time for another OS. Android is over.
BennyTheExplorer@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Postmarketos is looking pretty promising right now.
mannycalavera@feddit.uk 2 weeks ago
The year of the Linux phone is upon us brethren!
ThomasWilliams@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You can’t sideload on Linux…
fodor@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Of course we didn’t win. the more hoops you have to jump through, the fewer people who will install their own apps and then you lose all of the community support. And Google didn’t promise not to change their plans in the future. So you know that they’ll promise this now. Maybe they’ll backtrack a little if they have to and they will try to ratchet things up six months later anyway.
Real solutions involve either breaking up monopolies or breaking up monopolies, which is why some of the other cell phone vendors’ actions recently look positive. If there are two versions of Android that are popularly used, then the banks will have to support both of them and then everyone can run away from Google whenever they feel like it. But if there’s only one popular version and Android itself gets more and more locked down then that is Google seizing the entire market and they will cut out all of the other cell phone manufacturers as soon as they can. that will be just as bad as Apple.
Jorn@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Scrollone@feddit.it 2 weeks ago
Disable Google Play Protect. It’s a scam that doesn’t protect you at all, it just gives more control to Google.
yakko@feddit.uk 2 weeks ago
Christ
darkmogool@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
I had this too. I installed it from playstore but maintain the software now via aurora. So far it works…
jjlinux@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
So fucking glad that GrapheneOS will probably be available for the new Motorola phones next year. I’ve been on pixels since they were Nexus, and if not for GrapheneOS, I would have jumped ship after the Pixel 4 and moved to Crapple.
h4arts@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
still just not gonna update my phone for a while until they’ve for sure have allowed side loading. Got my pixel because it’s just a nice phone, and i can put graphene on it when it’s paid off. Half of my apps are all from f-droid, too.
umbrella@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
no.
i’ll look into this, but they seem to have used the old strategy of announcing something absurd then back down to what they wanted because of “community pressure”
bonus for not looking bad in comparison, while still being bad.
SuspciousCarrot78@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Narrator: No, they did not win.
JoMiran@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
db2@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I don’t care if it’s android or anything else, the moment my phone does that is the moment I switch to something else.
favoredponcho@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
I kind of wish they hadn’t. Fully blocking these apps would’ve really lit a fire in the open source world to create a serious alternative. Now people will just put up with the 1 day wait and carry on.
Itdidnttrickledown@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
with a 24 hour delay guarunteed to punish anyone who wants to have their device their way.
Goodlucksil@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
“Scammers” also exist on the Play Store. Google should start by cleaning it up.
Zedstrian@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Making users wait 24 hours doesn’t improve security; it’s an anti-competitive change designed to make the Google Play store seem like less of a hassle in comparison.
over_clox@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I can actually see where it can improve security against scammers trying to scam elderly and non-tech savvy people.
For the rest of us that know our way around Android, it’s just a one time annoyance, after completing all the steps to enable sideloading, you won’t have to wait 24 hours anymore.
pennomi@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s going to be effective, but it’s a sad world where you have to create a total nanny state because there exist a subset of users who are INCREDIBLY stupid.
Crozekiel@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
I’d believe that if most Pig Butchering scams weren’t using apps from Google Play already.
Pika@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Lets be real though, if they reached that stage, they have already blew through 4 other warnings about installing unsigned APK and enabled the browser or file manager to be able to install applications. It’s almost certain if they are that far deep/commited, they are going to call the scammer back if the scammer left a number.
Yes this might allow for a time delay where the scammers number could be disabled if reported by enough people but, I don’t think this is as secure as they are saying it will be.
3abas@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Solution in search of a problem?
I have never seen a scam call involving sideloading an app on a phone… Why would they whenTeamViwer is in the Google app store?
zzffyfajzkzhnsweqm@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Scammers almost always install remote desktop app from play store. This is just anti competitiveness…
BackgrndNoize@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
This is only the first step, they will keep adding more bullshit like this in the name of security till you end up with a device that’s nothing more than a advertisement terminal for google
CorrectAlias@piefed.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
The problem with this is that most of the apps used in scams are already on the play store. I haven’t ever seen a scam which requests the user to download a third party app, although I’m sure it’s happened on occasion.
My point is that this won’t stop most scams, and primarily cause annoyance for actual power users.