The Sodium-Ion Battery Revolution Has Started

Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨kalkulat@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨technology@lemmy.world⁩

https://cleantechnica.com/2025/10/22/the-sodium-ion-battery-revolution-has-started/

" CATL has thrown its hat into the ring with the Naxtra sodium-ion battery, with 175 Wh/kg and 10,000 lifetime cycles along with operation from -40°C to 70°C. CATL is planning a start-stop battery for trucks using the technology. It has the potential to replace lead-acid batteries. CATL has announced battery pricing at the cell level in volume at $19/kWh. "

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FunctionallyLiterate@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Now, if we can just get the robber barons and their wholely-owned politicians out of the way of progress…

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- FistingEnthusiast@lemmynsfw.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Yep
  
  Good luck to you
  
  You’re going to need a guillotine
  
  I’m in!
  
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  - Reverendender@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    We taking your car or mine?
    
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khannie@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
For anyone wondering what “10,000 lifetime cycles” means, it’s full charge / discharge to the point that the batteries are at 80% of original capacity so 10,000 is to me an absolutely incredible number.

A typical phone battery is rated for about 500 (you can massively improve this by not charging it beyond 80%).

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- Overspark@piefed.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  This also means that, when you buy a car with say a 500 km range, that the battery will last for 10,000 x 500 = 5 million kms. That is an absolutely insane number compared to cars that are on the road right now. And one you will obviously only reach if the rest of the car can keep up. EVs are already doing well compared to ICE cars in this regard, but this is almost an order of magnitude larger than the current status quo.
  
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  - frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Also, considering that modern cars are considered totaled by basically any accident, it’s not going to be the limiting factor on the car’s lifetime. It’s mostly a talking point by ICE advocates who stealthily imply million km cars are typical.
    
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- DupaCycki@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  
  A typical phone battery is rated for about 500 (you can massively improve this by not charging it beyond 80%).
  
  This 80% thing is incredibly simplified and not even always accurate. Personally I charge to about 95% and my phone batteries remain at 98-100% condition after 2 years of everyday use.
  
  Limiting yourself to 80% doesn’t really make sense. You’re losing 20% capacity instantly, instead of losing it slowly over a few years. To be fair, a lot of people treat their devices so poorly that they may hit the 80% in less than 12 months, so I guess there’s that.
  
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  - spongebue@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    I keep my car charged to 80% to help with battery degradation, and here’s why:
    
    Most days, I don’t use more than 30% of my battery capacity (roughly 75 miles/120km). Even that’s high. I don’t care if that means I go from 100%->70% or 80%-50% when I’ll charge back up again overnight
    
    It’s not a permanent setting! If I do go on a longer trip, I’ll bring it back up to 100% and not sweat it!
    
    From what I’ve heard, charging beyond 80% increases the degradation rate, meaning time spent at that level is an important part of the equation. If I keep my phone plugged in overnight and at my desk, I have a lot of time at full charge that I’m not really using, but if I know I’m flying that day or running errands all day I can pop it up to 100% and it will be a non-degraded 100%
    
    I’ve had my S20 far longer than my car and never did limit its charge. It’s fine for me, but the battery is sure showing its age.
    
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  - khannie@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Yeah, a friend of mine made a similar argument and I hear it. Personally I’m always right beside a fast charger so it’s not an issue for me.
    
    My phone has an option to auto-stop charging at 80% so I use that. I will occasionally charge it to 100% but like maybe once a month. TBH if it had an option to stop at 90% I’d probably use that as a middle ground (my steam deck does and I use 90% with it). I got 5 years out of my last phone and I’m 3 years into the current one and hoping to get many more out of it.
    
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- wizzor@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  I don’t know if the same applies to sodium batteries, early indicators are that they are less sensitive to depth of discharge as a degradation driver.
  
  Still, the expected lifetime is going to be at least between 4-8 times NCM (traditional li-ion), which is massive.
  
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  - AA5B@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Definitely incredible but I still feel like people’s excitement is misdirected.
    
    they’re less energy dense so not likely to be on phones or many cars
    
    for cars the extra life is marginal when existing batteries already last more than the life of a typical vehicle
    
    much cheaper will make a huge difference in low end cars.
    
    but storage is the killer app! I don’t care about energy density but they’re much cheaper and will last much longer. Huge win!
    
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- gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  
  10,000 lifetime cycles
  
  so, 30 years if you charge/discharge it once daily?
  
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  - Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    No, 28.0707664021 years
    
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  - Allero@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Yes.
    
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- unphazed@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  80? Shit, I have my phone set at 85…
  
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  - sleen@lemmy.zip ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    It’s not a dead set value. The word you can do is keep charging it way past 100%
    
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buddascrayon@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
So, how long do you think 'til the GOP Congress enacts a law blocking said technology and company in order to protect Tesla and oil interests of the United States fascist oligarchy?

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- surph_ninja@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  You think the Dems won’t help them do it? The Democrats are already backing tariffs and import bans on Chinese cars and solar panels.
  
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Teknikal@eviltoast.org ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
So is Sodium actually a good thing I know the silicon batteries being pushed hard now in Phone are a bit smaller but generally are suspected to have a quite short lifetime in comparison to standard.

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Gerudo@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Honey, where did you out my sodium ion battery?

On the kitchen counter so it can watch me cook dinner.

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- ripcord@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  I’m dumb and don’t get it.
  
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  - Gerudo@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    The thumbnail and article show a sodium ion battery pack just randomly on the kitchen counter while a lady is cooking dinner.
    
    Kind of like those stupid Amazon pictures for wusjduejxxw power juicer Chinese knockoff version 4.2 showing it in a pool or some random place.
    
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troed@fedia.io ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
This is what I've been waiting for as residential battery solution. Really nice to see it starting to take off.

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- reddig33@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Would this be a good replacement for 12v lead acid car batteries as well?
  
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  - Juvyn00b@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Depends on how fast the technology can dump current. Lead acid is particularly good about dumping a ton of current to crank.
    
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Ugurcan@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Tell me which stocks to buy.

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- jaschen306@sh.itjust.works ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Most of the USA sodium battery companies are currently in private equities. You can buy Chinese stocks or just wait until it goes SPAC.
  
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- neighbourbehaviour@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Tell me which stocks to ~~buy.~~sell.
  
  FTFY
  
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- seejur@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  The ones this people buy: share.google/PWnmursuqNxjrfSSl
  
  If they are not buying some sodium battery producers, you can bet that somehow those batteries will not be “ready for the market” yet
  
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- IndustryStandard@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Gold
  
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  - Aneb@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    What will gold do in an apocalypse, time to collect bottle caps
    
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thespcicifcocean@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
if i can afford one, i’ll buy a car with it. but if i can’t, i’ll keep using my 04 nissan.

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- Dremor@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  If I recall well, it isn’t a good fit for cars as it energy density per weight isn’t as good. But for residential batteries, that’s huge (if true).
  
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  - felbane@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    This isn’t true any more, and it’s mentioned in the article. Sodium is at least equivalent to - and on pace to surpass - the energy density of Lithium. It’s already being used in passenger cars in the Far East.
    
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  - discosnails@lemmy.wtf ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Even with an energy density disparity the lower potential for fires and lower effective operating temps it’s a huge upgrade for automotive applications. It’ll definitely replace all 12v batteries.
    
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- BagOfHeavyStones@piefed.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  And me my ’02 Mitsubishi wagon.
  
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  - dubyakay@lemmy.ca ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    And me my '93 Bianchi… oof it got stolen in 2018
    
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- Mihies@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  It’s unlikely you will see a car powered by those in near future if ever as they have relatively low density. But you’ll definitely see those as home battery and such where size/density doesn’t matter that much. And I bet it’s less inflammable as well.
  
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  - Overspark@piefed.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    In China NMC isn’t really used any more as a battery chemistry, almost all cars have LFP batteries. Sodium-ion has a slightly higher energy density than LFP. So basically almost all cars except the really expensive ones with a ridiculous range should switch over to sodium-ion pretty soon.
    
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  - frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Per the edit, range will probably be fine. Na batts are already reaching the energy density of Li batts in EVs right now. It just takes a while for a new battery on an assembly line to get into actual car models. We’re not really waiting on any breakthroughs anymore.
    
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  - thespcicifcocean@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    honestly, I’m fine with a lower range. when i go into the office , it’s 15 km away from my house. i can charge up at home, drive to work, come back and charge it up for the next day, so as a daily driver it might be fine. The problem comes when I want to go on a road trip, which is my preferred method of going medium to long distance. I avoid flying like the plague, and trains are really expensive for some reason.
    
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Mihies@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
The price 🤯👀

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- Dremor@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Especially for residential/static storage, where energy to weight ratio isn’t as important.
  
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  - Mihies@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Yep
    
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- avidamoeba@lemmy.ca ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I’ll def buy some of these for a camping batt as the B-grade cells get thrown on Ali.
  
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- gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  insert fry “take my dollars” meme
  
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pticrix@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
"So, I don’t get why you people keep complaining. This is a green technology! Why are you so mad we’ve been evaporating the oceans at a speed to keep up with the demand for sodium? As if this is what has been causing all these new hurricanes and flood!"

A trillionaire in 20 years or something.

The current timeline made me into a grumpy pessimist. I need to get out of that mindset.
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- Allero@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Here’s the thing: sodium chloride aka table salt is extremely abundant. We are not expected to run out of it in any measurable timeframe, and the effect of sodium mining on the oceans or ecosystems at large is negligible.
  
  Same cannot be said of lithium, which currently forms the backbone of battery tech. It is rare, and its extraction is extremely polluting. In fact, lithium is responsible for a huge chunk of renewable energy’s ecological footprint.
  
  Switching to sodium technology is like switching from silver to sand. It’s just one thing we truly have enough of.
  
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  - pticrix@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    yeah I don’t really think what I’ve written above is coming. I just expect nothing less from that class than to turn a solution into a new problem. Should have been more explicit about that.
    
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avidamoeba@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Holy fuck, the avg price for LFP was around $60/kWh last year.

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