[deleted]
Mozilla needs to understand that I don’t want it to have my data to sell or not in the first place.
[deleted]
Submitted 3 months ago by ForgottenFlux@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
Comments
grue@lemmy.world 3 months ago
OutlierBlue@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
That’s the thing that bothers me about all these companies now. My data is my data, not theirs. They shouldn’t even be allowed to collect it, let alone sell it or give it to anyone who wants it.
corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
Nahhh, trust them, bro. People working on other things with the same product name as their company name were great people. That should be endorsement enough.
Wait. They have this ‘open source’ flag. If they wave it about - oooh, pretty - does that help?
IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 months ago
Just uncheck all telemetry and never use an account.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 3 months ago
[deleted]A7thStone@lemmy.world 3 months ago
McKinsey is honestly scarier. They may not be a household name like the others, but look them up. They are frightening.
unemployedclaquer@sopuli.xyz 3 months ago
McKinsey, you forgot that, whatever the fuck it is
ayyy@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
I’ve been “laid off” by a McKinsey sweep twice in my Silicon Valley career and both times the stated reason was basically for making working software instead of lying and scamming.
pebbles@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
Man, this is very disappointed news. Thanks though, good to know.
zipzoopaboop@lemmynsfw.com 3 months ago
Stanford too
Ledericas@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Stanford is very corporate much like their counterparts
afk_strats@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Oh for fuck’s sake! List of Firefox alternatives:
Windows/Linux/MacOS:
Android:
- DuckDuckGo? f-droid
- FOSS Browser? https://codeberg.org/Gaukler_Faun/FOSS_Browser
iOS: ??
Deceptichum@quokk.au 3 months ago
There’s Servo by the Linux Foundation and Ladybird.
These are actual different browsers and engines all together compared to FF spin-offs.
afk_strats@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I’m excited for these to mature but they are still developing and would not recommend them for regular use
wizzim@infosec.pub 3 months ago
I read somewhere that Librewolf is not recommended because they are a small team and slow to patch vulnerabilities / integrate security fixes from Firefox.
Is it true? (Sincere question)
afk_strats@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Valid concern as I use their browser often. From their FAQ (link):
TheGiantKorean@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I’m giving Waterfox a test drive and like it so far. No issues.
afk_strats@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I’m considering adding it to the alternatives list I posted. Can anybody else validate their privacy policy? Seemd ok but I’m a bit iffy regarding their use of telemetry. Maybe I’m overthinking it
Cyber@feddit.uk 3 months ago
blackbarn@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Ironfox for Android?
Earflap@reddthat.com 3 months ago
Too new to recommend, IMO.
afk_strats@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Added
ded@lemy.lol 3 months ago
Librewolf is mostly a autoconfig file for Firefox (which is a Firefox feature).
codeberg.org/librewolf/settings/…/librewolf.cfg
I doubt implementation of terms will be optional.
wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 months ago
Why wouldn’t they be optional? Every other change like this has been before.
pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
Isn’t Librewolf tied to Firefox’ TOS?
ded@lemy.lol 3 months ago
Librewolf is tied to however they implement the terms. Librewolf is mostly a autoconfig file for Firefox (which is a Firefox feature). codeberg.org/librewolf/settings/…/librewolf.cfg I doubt implementation of terms will be optional.
moe90@feddit.nl 3 months ago
Brave is fine with for iOS with build in adblocker
AtariDump@lemmy.world 3 months ago
iOS browsers are all just skins around the safari engine.
drosophila@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 months ago
Since we strive for transparency, and the LEGAL definition of “sale of data” is extremely broad in some places, we’ve had to step back from making the definitive statements you know and love. We still put a lot of work into making sure that the data that we share with our partners (which we need to do to make Firefox commercially viable)
So in other words we sell your data and get paid for it, and some countries won’t let us lie about it.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 months ago
Yeah, I think it would be very fucking easy to say “we don’t sell your data” by any definition… Literally all you need to do is not fucking sell people’s data
Ledericas@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Probably caving into googles demands
zecg@lemmy.world 3 months ago
We still put a lot of work into making sure that the data that we share with our partners (which we need to do to make Firefox commercially viable) is stripped of any identifying information, or shared only in the aggregate,
Fuck off Mozilla. Maybe don’t pay CEOs millions and don’t force things like Pocket and LLMs on users if you want to be commercially viable, I’d gladly pay for Firefox that doesn’t make me dodge new features and services. But it would be a donation towards development of a browser that is commons, since you have no product to sell, only GPL’d code that’s mine as much as yours.
You have NO fucking leverage, Firefox is better than Chrome, but there’s projects that will gladly repackage your code with no telemetry whatsoever for any platform while you’re brainstorming just the right amount of monetization to prevent the frog from jumping.
It’s kind of sad I don’t use Chrome and therefore never think of it, while I like and use Firefox and am therefore constantly at odds with Mozilla.
Ledericas@lemm.ee 3 months ago
A lot of these browsers seems to be obsessed with AI that nobody wants.
bizzle@lemmy.world 3 months ago
KrapKake@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Just get “RIP” tattooed under it.
Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
If it’s really you…
Wtf?
bizzle@lemmy.world 3 months ago
It is lmfao it was my first one 🥲
Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Would you like to see my tattoo of Tom from MySpace I got on my left testicle? Hey man, in 2005 it seemed like MySpace Tom would be in our lives forever. Why WOULDN’T you get his profile picture inked into your body with needles on the most painful part of your body? It made sense in 2005!
But noooooooooo! Facebook had to be a dick. And now whenever I pull my pants down in front of some hot 20 year old with daddy issues, she’s like “Is that your uncle or something?”
Meanwhile Tom sold my MySpace for hundreds of millions of dollars, and now does photography of bikini models on his yacht! While I have to explain who Tom is to Gen Z…
sigh
ayyy@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
You’re a good friend
bizzle@lemmy.world 3 months ago
It’s actually not watercolor, I’m just old and I don’t wear sunscreen 😂 take care of your ink, kids
HipsterTenZero@dormi.zone 3 months ago
promises don’t count if you delete them. everyone knows that
LMurch@thelemmy.club 3 months ago
“If I put my wedding ring in my pocket, it’s not cheating…”
RustyShackleford@literature.cafe 3 months ago
This kind of thinking shouldn’t be acceptable from a legal standpoint. Yet the courts do nothing…
Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
They can’t just promise they “never will” and then get rid of it. People who used the service under the original agreement should still be able to claim that benefit since it was promising to never sell it.
Feathercrown@lemmy.world 3 months ago
That clarification is not making me calm
RangerJosey@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
Google really needs to be broken up. They’ve become the Ma Bell of the internet.
kingshrubb@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
thehackernews.com/…/mozilla-updates-firefox-terms…
Apparently they changed it due to backlash.
MrMcGasion@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Glad they clarified. To me the “selling data being defined broadly” argument made sense in the context of Google paying them to be included as a search provider. Because there is an argument that Google paying Firefox, and then the user entering a search and that being sent to Google’s servers could be legally seen as Mozilla selling data to Google.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
They should clarify that then. Explain any and all situations that could be considered “selling user data” and explain what data that consists of. Then explain how to avoid it.
That shouldn’t be hard.
DegenerationIP@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Hm. Reading further in the article and since its not the first no-no… I have doubts.
airportline@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Ok so I don’t have to change browsers?
PullPantsUnsworn@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
There are no alternative browsers out there. Our situation has came down to choose one of the least evil out there.
ChonkaLoo@lemmy.zip 3 months ago
I don’t like this but it’s gonna take more for me to switch. I am very happy with Firefox for my use-case and workflow it works really well. However I think they are shooting themselves in the foot by starting to take away some of the most crucial advantages with Firefox compared to Chrome. I mean if both are awful for privacy then why use Firefox?
NullHippo@lemmy.today 3 months ago
They’re cash strapped and cash strapped companies are the worst when it comes to being trustworthy. That’s all the calculus that needs to be done.
JuxtaposedJaguar@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
Mozilla is trying to increase their revenue by doing everything other than improving Firefox
nthavoc@lemmy.today 3 months ago
I remember a time when Google wrote “Don’t be evil” all over their stuff…
iAvicenna@lemmy.world 3 months ago
parmesan@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Am I the only one here who’s pretty much okay with this? I do wish they’d clarify exactly what they mean by “Mozilla doesn’t sell data about you (in the way that most people think about ‘selling data’),” but having my anonymized data sold so that Mozilla can continue to operate (combined with Firefox being the best browser I’ve used in terms of both performance and flexibility - ability to install add-ons from sources outside of the Mozilla store, for example) - seems like a worthy tradeoff to me.
They also have an option to opt-out of data collection, which I do wish was opt-in instead, but with the way every other mainstream browser operates I’m just happy the option is there at all. Let me know if there’s something I’m missing here though.
Blackmist@feddit.uk 3 months ago
I mean you could argue that them defaulting to Google search is already them selling your data. Google definitely pay them for that.
cultsuperstar@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Mozilla posted an update:
Update at 10:20 pm ET: Mozilla has since announced a change to the license language to address user complaints. It now says, “You give Mozilla the rights necessary to operate Firefox. This includes processing your data as we describe in the Firefox Privacy Notice. It also includes a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license for the purpose of doing as you request with the content you input in Firefox. This does not give Mozilla any ownership in that content.”
FrostyCaveman@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Gahhhh this is horrible
I spent some time switching to Librewolf this morning but at the end of the day, it having Firefox as the upstream means it’s all fragile and tenuous anyway
Solventbubbles@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Son of a bitch I just got back into Firefox.
Zink@programming.dev 3 months ago
I wonder how much this affects things if you’ve already gone through Firefox’s settings to max out privacy and turn off all telemetry.
I resisted switching to Librewolf because Firefox works great (including M365 in Linux at work) and seemed to have the options you’d want for privacy and security.
This doesn’t feel like an emergency, especially in a chrome/edge dominated world. But it’s back on the list of things to investigate transitioning away from.
wuphysics87@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
Several questions:
- How are they getting our data?
- What is the nature of the data?
- Can we do anything in about:config?
Litebit@lemmy.world 3 months ago
please pay me if you want to sell my data.
gamer@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Anyone still using Firefox after this probably hasn’t been keeping up with Mozilla’s many controversies. If this is your first time here, I can see why you’d decide to overlook it. I did for a long time, but this is the final straw for me. Luckily, instead of building anything useful over the past decades, Mozilla leadership has been instead focused on enriching themselves. That means deleting my Mozilla account right now was easy.
I’ve now moved to LibreWolf, because I don’t want to support Chromium’s dominance, but if that project dies out I’ll jump ship. It’ll be a real shame if the world gets stuck with Chromium as the only viable browser, but it won’t be my fault. It will be Mozilla leadership’s fault.
wall_panel_96@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I use brave and librewolf, anybody know if those are still safe from this dort of thing? (Probably not I guess, so what browsers are left?)
Gloria@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
mhague@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I don’t get how something is allowed to be labeled “free” when the terms of usage make you barter your data.
slaacaa@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Don’tbe evil
HexadecimalSky@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I see it said agian and agian. because its true. Firefox is one of, if not the best of the mainstream browsers. (Not included its many forks) but Mozilla is a horrible caretaker of it. Mozilla does not focus on firefox and they dont care/believe in it nearly as much as its users or devs who fork it.
The motivations of a company are extremely important, and has Mozilla does not care for a lightweight, good, privacy centric browser, the enshitification will and has corrupt firefox.
It’s only a matter of time until it is as bad as chromium or flat out joins it.
BrianTheeBiscuiteer@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I don’t know why they haven’t floated the idea of some kind of subscription or one-time payment (though a subscription might be just as infuriating). I’m not above paying for software and if it was a reasonable price, say $10 one-time, I’d much prefer that over it becoming the new Chrome.
RecallMadness@lemmy.nz 3 months ago
Could you imagine the enshittification cries if they did this. “Mozilla to add subscription model to your browser”.
They have other products that have subscriptions you can pay for to support the company.
Instead of using Mullvad, use Mozilla VPN (it is literally exactly the same, you just pay Mozilla not Mullvad)
If you’re a web developer, Subscribe to MDN Plus.
Hate spam? Firefox Relay.
balder1991@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I’m pretty sure a $10 one time payment won’t pay for the costs of development that Firefox requires.
Open source only works when there are people motivated enough to maintain something for free or when the organization managing it has another source of income.
morrowind@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
They’re already dying. This would be throwing themselves in the grave. People aren’t used to paying for browsers
unconfirmedsourcesDOTgov@lemmy.sdf.org 3 months ago
Donating has always been an option
afronaut@lemmy.cafe 3 months ago
Do Firefox forks allow us to avoid this enshittification or will they also be affected as well?
bdonvr@thelemmy.club 3 months ago
In theory yes. But remember that Chrome is based on Chromium which is open source. But nobody has stepped up to do a viable hard fork to take power away from Google.
Maintaining a modern browser is a huge undertaking which is why almost nobody except Google, Mozilla, and Apple are really even trying. Even Microsoft threw in the towel.
The more bad stuff is added to Firefox the harder it will be for any forks to keep up removing it while also keeping it up to date. Will anyone step up?
wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 months ago
Yes, they allow full avoidance of any potential data collection through the browser, if they remove the collection features.
Mozilla would need to change their licensing terms to prevent forks from being able to remove things like that, and forks could just use the last version of the code before the license change and just backport new features.
Also Firefox is fully open source, unlike chromium which relies on a closed source binary blob in the middle. Some chromium forks have replaced the binary blob with open source code, but the default is for chromium forks to have a nice chunk in them controlled by google that no one can deeply inveatigate what it does. Firefox does not have this issue.
Mozilla can’t hide any potential data collection in Firefox due to the full open source nature (unlike chrome forks). They also can’t stop fork devs from stripping out any data collection functions. And as of today, they have not introduced any data collection that is not supremely anonymized, and they have not introduced any data collection that cannot be opted out of through the browser settings (and about:config).
Lem453@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
Is librewolf a good alternative? Most plugins seem compatible
RecallMadness@lemmy.nz 3 months ago
I don’t believe Mozilla doesn’t have the best interests of the browser at heart, I believe that they do think their browser is the their number one product.
But that’s the problem. It’s free software, going up against a juggernaut whose browser is just another side project to drive engagement with their core product.
A juggernaut who just so happens to be one of Mozilla’s primary source of income. All it will take is a little bit of legislation somewhere in the world to make that deal less attractive and Mozilla could be dead in the water. And it will take all of those forks with it, paving the way for Google to become the true web Hegemony.
Mozilla needs to diversify to ensure they can continue to provide stewardship to the browser.
But trying to make money in 2025 just seems to summon the enshittification brigade.
Free software is not free. Someone has to make it.
lemminator@lemmy.today 3 months ago
Have they considered just asking for money? Also getting rid of the giant holes that they keep pouring their money into?
A lot of people love Firefox, and would happily donate. They could also trim a lot of fat at Mozilla quite easily.
Engywuck@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Chromium is bad only in your head. It’s a fucking rendering engine with different incarnations. How can this be bad? And no, FF is not “the best”, otherwise it wouldn’t have the shitty market share it actually has.
RecallMadness@lemmy.nz 3 months ago
Ah silly us.
We spent a decade hating on IE, it’s slowness, poor support for any standards, plugins that fuck your shit up, etc.
But it was obviously the best because it had that huge market share.
4am@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Found the t3.gg enjoyer
HexadecimalSky@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Each person has thier own opinion. I have used IE, edge, before it went chromium and have used chrome. They work, and if you get into the ecosystem they work really well, but if you don’t want to be in the ecosystem or try to stop some it, I ran into problems.
When I just accepted all google ecosystem products, chrome worked great, when I needed to use alternate google accounts for school I ran into issues. So I moved to edge and it worked fine, except for with google I ran into issues, then it became chromium.
Then ads, and popups being an ad company, google doesn’t like supporting ad or content blockers, which makes sense but ublock has been so great at blocking unwanted popups and ads and as far as I am aware it doesn’t wirk as well on chromium based browsers, or at all.
So agian Chromium is a solid system and if you don’t care to change it it can work grest for you, but I found trying to change it to suit my needs as been problematic, in ways firefox or some fork of it hasn’t been.
If you are happy with Chrome or Edge or whatnot, great, there isn’t a problem but I want other options, I want more options about how it works, how it runs on my system and what data it collects or shows, things chromium doesn’t support.