Why does the USA have so few legal protections for ordinary people, and how can we change that?

Submitted ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨Buttflapper@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨nostupidquestions@lemmy.world⁩

I’m just a regular person making about $70K a year in a big city, and I’ve recently felt incredibly powerless dealing with private companies. For instance, my landlord’s auto-pay system had a glitch that excluded my pet rent and water bill. I ended up with over $1,000 in late fees. Despite hours on the phone, it turns out their system doesn’t really do auto-pay and requires a fixed amount instead of covering the full rent. It feels like a scam, and my options are to pay the fees or potentially spend a fortune on legal action.

Another frustrating experience was trying to cancel my pest control service. I had to endure a 40-minute call followed by 35 minutes of arguing, just to finally cancel. There’s no online cancellation option, and the process felt like a timeshare sales pitch.

Why do ordinary people seem so unprotected against these shady practices, and how can we change this? How does one person even start to address these issues?

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FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
To make major, sustained, positive change would require widespread violent revolution.

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- AndrewZabar@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  It’s the only thing we will have left pretty soon. Capitalism is pretty close to flatlining. Then we will have a Corporate Congress and the nation will become The United Corporation of America - in name as opposed to now where that’s what it is but it’s not yet called that.
  
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  - FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I do anticipate fascism becoming overt after November, but the powers that be will market it well, like that time they turned Nazism into ‘White Nationalism’.
    
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lordnikon@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
it’s because money equals power and they have all the money and are able to build mechanisms to suck the money you have so that they have even more money. Can’t help with the landlord but for the pest control using something like virtual credit cards numbers. so if they won’t let you cancel. you just delete that card and they lose acess to your payment details. when they contact you for payment just cancel right then.

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nooneescapesthelaw@mander.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
OP I don’t know what state you’re in but in some states like CA a landlord can’t pull shit like this

in California, a landlord cannot compel a tenant to pay rent via electronic transfer. The landlord must provide an alternate means by which the tenant can make payment. See California Civil Code Section 1947.3(a)(1)).

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NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Businesses have more money than individual citizens. You will get what you want from the U.S. government when we get money out of politics -Full-stop.

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Mobiledecay@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
We’re peasants and there’s nothing we can do about it.

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- T00l_shed@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Well, there are things that could be done about it, but it’s been made very difficult to do .
  
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squid_slime@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
revolution i hear you say?

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- Angry_Autist@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Close, I said ‘bloody revolution’ but your response is more marketable.
  
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- ArmokGoB@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Buy guns; hunt the rich
  
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  - Fleur_@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I always thought it was ironic that the country with widespread gun ownership under the pretext of protecting individual freedoms has a surprising lack of individual freedoms
    
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MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Reactionary and minimal lawmaking. A cultural thing since wild west times, because of freedom-mindset. Lead to more and more influence throug financial strong parties, lead to laws supporting said parties.

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some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I just started listening to a new podcast series called Master Plan that talks about how this happened deliberately and systematically over decades. It followed the Powell Doctrine. You can hear a conversation between the primary host, David Sirota, and Brianna Joy Gray (she’s not one of my favorites, but I tuned in because it was him) on Bad Faith podcast.

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heavyboots@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Pretty much we are a corporate welfare state at this point. Electing officials you think will pass or enforce laws to bring them to heel is your best bet. (People like AOC are preferred, as she has never accepted contributions from corporations to her campaign.)

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Bytemeister@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Not that I would recommend this, but I feel like the shittiness of business correlates in inversely with the public’s opinion on molotov cocktails.

If your fucking business burns down weekly because you keep fucking people over, you’re not going to stay in business very long.

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FireTower@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Contact local counsel. There’s probably an attorney who practices in rental law near you that does free consultations.

It’s not that we don’t have protections it’s that we have an access to justice issue.
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MissJinx@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Sorry I’m not american, but what is Pet Rent? never heard of that

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- mke_geek@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  It’s an extra monthly fee to cover the cost of extra cleaning and repairs needed due to tenants having pets and the damage they cause.
  
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- Thavron@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I assume it’s a surcharge on their rent for the fact that they have a pet.
  
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  - MissJinx@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I assumed that too but couldn’t believe
    
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- pezmaker@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  It’s exactly what it sounds like. Extra bullshit monthly rent tacked into the regular rent in addition to a usually non-refundable pet deposit.
  
  Basically you’re a money faucet in the US, and wide open if you have pets or kids
  
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  - MissJinx@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Wait, Kids too?!! omg
    
    I get the deposit, pets can be destructive, but pet rent is peak captalism. It’s like charging rent by the weight!
    
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laverabe@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I’d argue it’s because citizens have no voice. The media has there corporate narrative, but the public interest has very few organizations in advocacy of it.

Support local journalism (financially), work to break any media control on the narrative.

The first thing people could start doing is stop providing free labor to the media. It’s all over Lemmy.

Don’t link to a corporate news outlet. Link to an .edu or PBS or NPR or a quality international publicly funded news organization. Or better yet build your own narrative, your own opinions. Discuss your opinions respectfully on !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world . Build momentum and take away the corporate medias control.

Without a public voice advocating for the people, it will be very hard to change any legislation in the peoples favor.

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surewhynotlem@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
It sounds like you need a tenants union.

Local organization is a great option. Not everything needs the federal government to come in and smack people.

We surely can do both, but you personally can start a tenants Union today.

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KombatWombat@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I am not a lawyer, but consumer protections should generally kick in when an issue is actually evaluated in a court. If you are being charged for things you believe to be unfair, you would need to refuse to pay, then see them in action after the business escalates it. Often, a predatory business will give up when it knows it doesn’t have a case. But it’s pretty hard to work on behalf of a citizen if they ultimately are convinced that they do have an obligation to pay after all.

I agree with the other commenter on the first issue. If you have been paying the amount you were charged, and then hit with surprise retroactive charges, you would have a serious case in small claims. I expect a judge would favor you if it’s as described. $1000 for late fees is exorbitant, especially when the glitch was from their software and not rectified quickly. Unless you’re leaving out relevant details that explains the situation better.

For the second issue, needlessly cumbersome cancellation processes are considered dark patterns and may be illegal in some cases. These cases are being enforced more recently, even against large companies like Amazon. For your pest control case though, if you face pushback when cancelling it’s pretty simple to tell them you won’t be using their services and will refuse to pay. If you already paid, you may be able to issue a chargeback after explaining the situation to your bank. Seeing as how you would be being charged for services not done, I don’t see how the business could contest that after being informed of the cancellation. You would still be on the hook for a (reasonable) cancellation fee, as lost business from a cancelled reservation does represent real damages.

We are a country with a litigious history and we have recognized considerable rights for consumers. Just because you feel powerless doesn’t mean you are.

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- Got_Bent@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I’d wager that his lease has a mandatory arbitration clause that requires him to pay to front then try to get it back via arbitors chosen by the landlord.
  
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capital_sniff@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Corporations tried out binding arbitration and the people just took it with very little complaining. So why not keep eroding consumer protections or the other rights citizens fought for in the before times?

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Professorozone@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Because non-ordinary people make the rules.

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Linktank@lemmy.today ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
People don’t fear for their lives when they fuck people over any more. We need to bring that back somehow. Ratfuckers should be fearful after they ratfuck somebody that they’re going to get theirs.

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UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Image

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SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
The entire justice system rests on how much money you have.

It’s capitalism, capitalism is the core of the problem.

It treats people who have wealth as good people who always have a chance to appeal injustice and people without wealth as never having an opportunity to fight injustice.

You would literally need to tear it all down and start over because the US Consitution is kind of a piece of garbage and we spend way too much time jerking off the old dead white slave-owners who wrote down that “All men are created equal… as long as they’re white and own land.”

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- AndrewZabar@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I guess they don’t have their wealthy running the government and writing the laws.
  
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DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Join a radical militia or leave.

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fiend_unpleasant@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
everytime I start telling people how to make guillotines everyone gets upset and says that they really didn't solutions they meant.. like... bandaids

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- RobotToaster@mander.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Have you seen the price of timber these days?
  
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Trainguyrom@reddthat.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
The unfortunate fact is it is a dog eat dog world, and corporations can and will fuck you over. Maintain a budget, maintain an emergency fund of $10k or 6 months living expenses (whichever is bigger) and be prepared to be screwed over so that when it does happen you don’t find yourself up the proverbial creek without a paddle.

On top of this, as an additional safety net, build a friend group and build a culture within your friend group of helping each other. One friend getting a surgery? Offer to cook for them, or bring them some precooked meals. A friend stuck on the side of the road, offer to come help, even if it’s just as emotional support.

I started this process a few months ago so I’m in a better position now that my work has announced that they’re relocating across the country and basically everyone is losing their jobs over the next 3-9 months. It would’ve been more convenient if this happened a year later, but it is what it is so now I have to shape my next steps and move forwards

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- BallsandBayonets@lemmings.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  A $10k emergency fund? Even banks don’t carry enough cash these days for a working class person to be able to rob a bank to have that kind of money.
  
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  - Trainguyrom@reddthat.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    The point of an emergency fund is it will get you through whatever unexpectable large expense without taking on debt. Car needed a repair and you had a health procedure plus your water heater went out all in the same year? 10k might not cover all of that but it will give you the options to manage those emergencies as they come up
    
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- Angry_Autist@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  The unfortunate fact is it is a dog eat dog world
  
  No it’s not, that’s zero sum owner class propaganda designed to force us to waste energy competing with our peers instead of fighting them
  
  Humans have created a haven away from ‘nature red in tooth and claw’ where we DON’T have to compete with each other, and mutualism without profit is possible, it is literally the greatest achievement of our species, to short circuit natural selection.
  
  In human culture, the weak and sick don’t have to be sacrificed for the good of the whole, and we can support a wide and diverse service and goods structure BECAUSE we have moved on from natural selection.
  
  The problem is, predatory practices are often more rewarding short term than cooperative practices, and humans are geared for short term planning.
  
  You get more food now for killing the farmer and taking his cattle, but you get more food for everyone forever if you let that farmer prosper.
  
  Bandits kill the farmer, they are the ones telling you it is a dog eat dog world.
  
  The farmer will tell you that the world is full of bounty if you put the effort in to cultivate it.
  
  Yes a bandit uses less energy, and has more short term profit, but degrades the entire total outcome of the system by their greed.
  
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  - Trainguyrom@reddthat.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    This doesn’t change the fact that when no social safety net exists one must construct their own safety nets. That’s my point. We can talk all we want about how broken the systems are and how we would fix them if given the power to, but ultimately we have to live and survive. Use the good times to better prepare yourself to weather the bad, because good luck getting help from the government or corporations to do so
    
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kava@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
There are laws against excessive fees like this. In my home state of Florida, a landlord cannot charge more than 20% the rent in late fees.

And trust me, Florida is not known for its consumer protections. So chances are your state has a similar law which is probably better.

So if I were you I would look up the law and not pay.

Assuming of course you are telling the full truth- your full rent payment was late for a short period of time.

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ThrowawayPermanente@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Reading the comments here and it sounds like the only solution for people with first world problems who earn a good salary is violent revolution. Utterly deranged.

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- my_hat_stinks@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  There are currently 120 comments, of which I can see one person suggested “violent protest” and one person suggested “blood”. Most of the comments which give any suggestions say unionisation, protest, and reform. If you see those as inherently violent that says a lot more about you than it does the other commenters.
  
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ALostInquirer@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Have you seen the !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world community? This would be a good post there as well, I think!

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Sabre363@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
It’s just corporations and rich assholes running the show and they absolutely do not give a fuck about anyone but themselves, especially if the anyone is ~~poor~~ ordinary. The only way to solve the issue is to completely remove these entities from the equation and start making our own protections.

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GBU_28@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
It can be very cheap to get a letter written by a lawyer on their letterhead, to demand things like service cancellation.

It’s not perfect and shouldn’t have to happen, but what’s your time and mental health worth?

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partial_accumen@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

a glitch that excluded my pet rent and water bill. I ended up with over $1,000 in late fees. Despite hours on the phone, it turns out their system doesn’t really do auto-pay and requires a fixed amount instead of covering the full rent

You got over $1000 in late fees from a single month of not having the full amount?

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bradorsomething@ttrpg.network ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Let me guess, red state?

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