Told Russia to fuck off, and now France is complicit.
Tells us a lot about how governments view Telegram.
Comment on Founder and CEO of Telegram messaging service arrested in France
bfg9k@lemmy.world 2 months ago
What crimes did he personally commit?
BearOfaTime@lemm.ee 2 months ago
merde@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
has nothing to do with Russia, according to the linked article
Pourquoi était-il sous la menace d’un mandat de recherche ?
La Justice considère que l’absence de modération, de coopération avec les forces de l’ordre et les outils proposés par Telegram (numéro jetable, cryptomonnaies…) le rend complice de trafic de stupéfiants, d’infractions pédocriminels et d’escroquerie.
Ce mandat de recherche courait si, et seulement si, Pavel Durov se trouvait sur le territoire national.
En effet, Telegram est une ruche pour les contenus criminels. En ce moment, la plateforme fait l’actualité avec la diffusion illégale des matchs de Ligue 1. Mais sur cette messagerie chiffrée, de nombreux comptes sont utilisés par la criminalité organisée. Au-delà du terrorisme, les plus dangereux pédocriminels communiquent sur Telegram pour échanger des contenus. “C’est devenu depuis des années LA plateforme numéro 1 pour le crime organisé”, commente un enquêteur.
even if it’s not about telegram, this might help to understand ☞ laquadrature.net/…/encryption-discussion-during-t…
Several of the defendants were questioned about their use of tools and software such as Signal, Tor and Tails, and about the encryption of their computers and hard drives. The questioning followed the same pattern as the prosecution’s investigations, which we revealed a few months ago: a huge amount of confusion as to the technical understanding of these tools combined with a suspicious approach to their actual use. Three defendants were questioned about their motivation for using such software, as if a well-argued justification was needed, even though the tools are perfectly normal, legal and ordinary.
“It is possible and not forbidden to have these tools, but we can ask ourselves why dissimulate information” the president of the court stated. Suspicion of clandestinity coupled with little knowledge of the subject was evident in their questions: “You explain that the use of this ‘kind of network’ [Signal] was to preserve your privacy, but are you afraid of being monitored?”. Or: “Why did you think it was important or a good idea to find out about this ‘kind of environment’ [the Tails operating system]?”.
Telorand@reddthat.com 2 months ago
Thanks for that.
So basically, “Why are you hiding from us? Only criminals hide, so you must be hiding criminal activity!”
simple@lemm.ee 2 months ago
From the article
The Justice considers that the lack of moderation, cooperation with the forces of law and order and the tools offered by Telegram (disposable number, cryptocurrencies, etc.) makes it complicit in drug trafficking, paedo criminal offences and fraud.
But a lot of people are speculating they just fabricated claims to arrest him because Telegram is russian.
snooggums@midwest.social 2 months ago
As the CEO he should be responsible for anything he was facilitating as part of his business, and that would include crimes committed using telegram that he was aware of and both did nothing to remove from his service and made it harder for law enforcement to prosecute. You know, like how a warehouse owner who knowingly sells space to pedos and does what he can to keep the police from searching the warehouee is complicit.
There are some circumstances where they are unaware or only take halfhearted measures, but in this case it looks like he is being investigated for actively working to enable criminals, including pedos. As the head executive, he doesn’t have to do it personally if he is directing staff to make it happen.
obbeel@lemmy.eco.br 2 months ago
I’m sorry, but it’s a private messaging app! Not even the owners are supposed to know what is going on in the chats. It’s not a moderation situation - I don’t know if he rejected a request to ban accounts, but it isn’t how things are supposed to be.
Spotlight7573@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Isn’t the main problem that most people don’t use the E2E encrypted chat feature on Telegram, so most of what’s going on is not actually private and Telegram does have the ability to moderate but refuses to (and also refuses to cooperate)?
Something like Signal gets around this by not having the technical ability to moderate (or any substantial data to hand over).
Hubi@feddit.org 2 months ago
Exactly. Telegram has a ton of public channels full of content that is illegal in most EU countries and refuses to comply with any local laws on hate speech. They know perfectly well what their platform is used for, they just don’t care. It would be a wildly different case if everything were E2E encrypted by default.
d4f0@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Also they use a custom encryption protocol that had bugs that look like a backdoor. grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/113020871978942265
snooggums@midwest.social 2 months ago
Well, the French police seem to be saying the way he is running the company involves being knowingly complicit, not that they just happen to be hosting/facilitating communication without the company’s knowledge.
just_an_average_joe@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
By this logic, the US Navy should also get into legal trouble for creating the Tor project.
Selective enforcement of law is a tool of oppression. Happens all the time in oppressive regimes.
LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 2 months ago
“Laws are threats made by the dominant socioeconomic-ethnic group in a given nation. It’s just the promise of violence that’s enacted and the police are basically an occupying army. You know what I mean?”
-Dimension20
CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 2 months ago
only take halfhearted measures
Like what exactly?
snooggums@midwest.social 2 months ago
Moderation that doesn’t do anything. Have terms and conditions that aren’t enforced. General ‘we care’ things that aren’t actually effective.
CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 2 months ago
How do you moderate something you can’t know about?
RobotToaster@mander.xyz 2 months ago
From translating TFA:
Same reason Russia wanted to arrest him…
bfg9k@lemmy.world 2 months ago
By that logic we should arrest all Car company CEOs for being complicit in crime lol, it’s not exactly his choice what people do with his product
Hubi@feddit.org 2 months ago
Not really comparable because the illegal content is hosted and distributed through his servers. Which is why most sites are moderated to a degree. This dude basically said “fuck off” whenever takedowns were issued. It’s hardly a surprise that he’s been arrested.
grue@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Illegal content is distributed through snail mail and telephones too, but those are common carriers so they aren’t liable. Why should Telegram be any different?
yeahiknow3@lemmings.world 2 months ago
So if I lease a car it’s comparable? Rent a car, commit a crime, boom — rental company is on the hook. Moronic.
werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 2 months ago
But, have you noticed that after committing a crime, criminals and felons usually escape… using a car?
Skullgrid@lemmy.world 2 months ago
landlords should be prosecuted for crimes commited by criminals in houses they rented out to the tenants.
NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 2 months ago
The criminals ate bread before the heist, better round up all the grain farmers
LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Next they’ll charge oil executives for damage to the planet, I’m for it.
yeahiknow3@lemmings.world 2 months ago
Next they’ll make encrypting your own files illegal. Absolutely preposterous. Do better police work!
Hydra_Fk@reddthat.com 2 months ago
So your pro arresting gun and ammo manufacturing company CEOs?
gaael@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I’m all for it. Time to end the guns supply chain.
MrSqueezles@lemmynsfw.com 2 months ago
Next up, outlawing pencil erasers and flammable paper
DogWater@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Oh for fucks sake I’m so tired of this bullshit.
Governments nowadays are constantly acting like a tech platform has a responsibility eliminate privacy for users because if they have privacy, then they can’t be tracked. It’s infuriating.