The tinfoil hat quantity on lemmy is almost as bad as /r/conspiracy. Yall need to stop parroting this nonsense without evidence of foul play.
There is plenty of evidence of foul play you smartass. They willingly risked lives over many years and are still currently flying many planes with defective unsafe parts. Going from that to assasination is not a big leap.
Multiple of the whistleblowers and their colleagues have also independently said that their workplace was directly and deliberately sabotaged in order to continue using defective parts.
Well…the first dude did say something about Boeing killing whistleblowers and the bravery of others to step up in defiance of that.
So that whole line of thinking is conspiracy theory stuff with no real proof and it is being parroted here. Granted, usually the assassination stuff is usually tongue in cheek, but the top comment seems a bit crazy.
I agree that calling it “killing whistleblowers” is a bit too early, but for the point that the top comment was making, it doesnt actually matter. Because his point was about the bravery of the other whistleblowers coming out and for that it doesnt matter if they actually got killed or not.
The 10 other whistleblowers are brave because there is a good chance that at least one of the whistleblowers was killed. They are still brave even if it turns out that the first two died of natural causes or suicide.
If the “bravery” and “admiration” comes against the idea of assassination, then it completely matters. Idk why you’re hand waving the nonsense here
Even if the dude that “killed himself” did do it to himself, he did so because he was harassed by a company for doing his job. Even in the non conspiracy version of the story, the corporation still acted in bad faith and should be held liable for it’s actions. Why is this the hill you want to die on?
OK, but that’s a pretty big difference from hiring a hitman to explicitly murder him.
Yes, it is different.
No one is saying Boeing execs shouldn’t be prosecuted.
It's very naive to think that a weapons dealer who also kills it's commercial airline passengers for profit isn't also killing whistleblowers.
Nice try Boeing
I’m on your side dude, the response here is kinda nuts.
It’s baffling man.
Bolexforpoop back wih pigshit again. The reason i don’t block you is your neverending entertainment value. Keep posting king.
Three-day old account, I wouldn’t be surprised if they had another one that was banned.
I made this account which has the same name as my kbin.social account that is almost a year old. This isn’t some grand attempt at masking my intentions or ban evading. I chose the same name for a reason.
But this whole thread is about assuming the worst based on half info, why would they stop when you’re saying something they don’t like?
Yeah Kbin really jumped the shark. I gave up on it as well. Maybe one day Ernst will do literally everything that he said he would but… today is not that day, nor was yesterday, and I’m done waiting. In the meantime I’m wondering if I should block the entire instance due to all the spam that the complete lack of moderation (in some communities) is sending out to the entire Fediverse. Seriously, I am surprised it hasn’t been hit by waves of CP as many other instances have, in an attempt to swat it by getting the FBI involved. Anyway, I hope you enjoy your new instance better!:-) Weird conversations such as is happening on this post aside, the Fediverse is kind of a neat place!
Also, you might check the list of which instances Kbin blocks by default, and choose to block them here (Settings -> Blocks, scroll way down to instances). e.g. lemmygrad.ml and hexbear.net are some really common ones that people often block. Ofc you feel free to do you, and decide first what you want to see in your feed!:-) I just mention that bc after leaving the safe and protected Kbin.social I game close to leaving Lemmy too, until I blocked those two instances and it improved my experience on the Fediverse 95%.
2 people dying is kind of fishy.
parpol@programming.dev 6 months ago
OpenStars@discuss.online 6 months ago
Tbf the evidence for the second person is not strong - that stuff does legit happen.
But the first guy? Damn! That’s enough right there.
Tryptaminev@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Well isn’t there a ruling in aircraft design and safety, that you calculate the probability of a certain failure and judge by its reoccurence if it was just random, or more than likely systematic?
I think i read this in context to the two MAX planes crashing in the exact same way. The first one was ruled as maybe just being some very very freak thing to happen, but it happening twice made it entirely implausible to be without systematic cause.
And well now it is happening twice in a few years with Boeing that weird things happen twice in a row with little time in between in relation to critical security flaws.
OpenStars@discuss.online 6 months ago
It sounds like neither of us know the answer to that, so I choose not to comment on that matter.
But how does that apply? One guy was a “suicide”, the other was bacteria - you just said it yourself, the metric only works if they crash “in the exact same way”, therefore by your own words, this seems to not apply?
There is a natural human bias to want to “know” things. Sometimes we even make shit up out of desperation to fill that void, but the more honest way (but HARD to do, emotionally, as in it seriously goes against the grain of our pattern-finding brain’s natural instinctual algorithms) is to simply say “I do not know the answer here”. Please don’t misunderstand me as saying that it is likely that the second guy was not killed - that would be 100% tangential to what I am trying to convey!
Rather, I am saying that the first guy looks to have been Epstein-ed, but we don’t know enough yet about the second guy. Could you imagine someone sent to kill him, and having a whole plan in place so that he wouldn’t even make it home but rather be taken care of in the car on the way there, but then he dies in his hospital bed first -> do you still get paid!?:-P Asking the important questions here!!:-D
But again, what happened to the first guy is already enough to know that some shady shit is going on. And yeah, that should make us think twice about the second guy… but having done so, I think that we just don’t know enough there to make a firm determination like we could for the first guy, without additional evidence. Which does not absolve Boeing one iota for being so shitty for the last few years.
just_another_person@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Again, a dozen whistleblowers now, and 2 died fairly quickly after coming out.
Zink@programming.dev 6 months ago
I don’t know if that’s a rule of thumb or not, but it certainly makes sense.
First, the world of reliability runs on data and math. Lots of statistics, of course.
And second, aircraft are over-engineered for safety margins on top of safety margins. The test data might say you need a part that’s X thickness of aluminum in order to be 99% sure to never fail in the field. So let’s just make it 3X thickness to be safe!
So from that standpoint, back to back failures should pretty much always draw a bunch of attention in this industry.
afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I did do the math on it and the second guy only had a 1 in 3630 chance of dying of natural causes in that time window.
bolexforsoup@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 months ago
Yes if you’re including the entire population which is not how stats works as his demographic is exponentially more at risk than many others (age, onset of pneumonia, etc)
OpenStars@discuss.online 6 months ago
We do ourselves no favors by sounding like conspiracy nutjobs who are uninterested in facts. When they go low, we should retain the high road, imho.
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 6 months ago
Yes. What you are listing are coincidences.
Also understand that it is pretty rare for a whistleblower to have any future in the industry they are blowing the whistle on. That is throwing away years of schooling and often decades of experience. People tend to not do that if they aren’t already ill and not expecting a long life.
As for “if I die, it is not suicide”: Gonna get real dark for a moment. A lot of people are just looking for a way to make their life, or death, matter. Someone realizing they don’t want to put themselves and their family through a very long trial might very well use that as an excuse to take the easy way out.
All that said: Obviously these need to be investigated. But there is a big difference between investigating a suspicious death and immediately jumping to conspiracy.
parpol@programming.dev 6 months ago
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 6 months ago
And suicide rates go up drastically when people are overly stressed and think they have no future. Sort of like… having contributed to incredibly dangerous air travel and burning bridges with an entire industry.
Similarly, like I said, a lot of whistleblowers are ill to begin with. Because, again, it is throwing away your future in an industry. It is a lot easier to consider that when your future on this planet is measured in years or even months.
bolexforsoup@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 months ago
You don’t compare the stats to the population in its entirety. That’s like trying to calculate how dangerous it is for cyclists on the road by using the entire population. Most Americans don’t even own a bike.
Xtallll@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 months ago
Better than 1 in a thousand, makes it seem less unlikely.
Kedly@lemm.ee 6 months ago
How is your take also not a conspiracy theory?
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 6 months ago
Well, for one thing, the definition of “conspiracy” is “a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act”. So… you can’t have a one person conspiracy.
bolexforsoup@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 months ago
“Pinned it on the little guy”? It was suicide. There isn’t “blame” but he did it to himself by definition.
rsuri@lemmy.world 6 months ago
There’s 2 kinds of evidence.
The guy saying he won’t kill himself requires inferring that he’s being truthful when he said it and that he didn’t change his mind. It’s not non-evidence, it does point to suicide being less likely. But it’s far from conclusive.
That’s also a common misunderstanding, at least regarding the first (I’m not as familiar with the second). The first had just testified at a Boeing-led deposition, and had one more day left. Problem with that is - it’s Boeing’s deposition. If they didn’t want him to testify the second day, all they’d need to do is cancel the deposition. Generally you do a deposition to get an opposing witness to make admissions that can be used against them at trial if necessary, and/or demonstrate to the other side that they don’t have a case so you can force them to settle before trial. So Boeing had little reason to kill him before their own deposition was over. The only reason they’d do it then was to silence him generally…but doing it in a way that draws so much suspicion to them seems like an implausibly bad decision. Then again, it is Boeing.
ripcord@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Its also inferring his friend is being truthful when he said that’s what the guy said.
afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Hey.
Yeah?
See this gun?
I do.
Kill yourself with it or I will kill everyone in your family. Here is a list of their names and addresses.
What if I kill you instead?
Guys who sent me will send someone else.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
That guy also had a history of mental issues and anxiety. He was away from home experiencing high stress environments, like a court room, and he was looking at another court appearance that day.
It doesn’t take a genius to see that maybe, just maybe, this is a coincidence instead of murder. He had already given the bulk of his testimony, so I really don’t see the motive here.
afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Testimony is thrown out because he was obviously mentally unstable
ripcord@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Is that what happened…?
EvolvedTurtle@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Can I have source plz
I’m not doubting you it’s just that’s so comedic I need to see it for myself