Comment on Sorry Dave, I’m afraid I can’t do that! PCs refuse to shut down after Microsoft patch
Deestan@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Instead of waiting a few more years for Linux to reach the level of ease-of-use needed to overtake Windows, MS is being sporty by moving the goal closer.
UnGlasierteGurke@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
kalkulat@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
A few more years? Try Mint 22.3 Cinnamon, like millions of others are!
tyrant@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Or any of the other “easy” distros. To be honest… The “gaming” distros have been just as easy as mint to me. Cachy, bazzite, and to a lesser degree nobara (points knocked off for giving me grief after an update) have all been very easy and stable.
I think people get scared because everyone says you need to use command line in Linux. That’s not really true any more than it is in Windows. There are certain things that are easier with command line or other things that might need to be done there, but it’s easier and faster to look up what those things are than navigating the purposefully buried settings in Windows and everything basic can be done in gui anyhow. You can get as technical as you want in Linux.
The hardest thing for me about switching was finding comparable programs that I was used to. It takes time to find THE BEST PDF EDITOR or anything else on a new OS.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
Bazzite is so user friendly that I could, and did, set it up on a Steam Deck…
…without a mouse or keyboard, with just the Steam Deck as a controller!
Then I figured out how to set up containers, and built a Debian environment, that can and did successfully compile different game engines from source.
Again, without a mouse or keyboard.
… Did I mention I’m currently crippled in the right wrist and shoulder and arm?
Bazzite on a Deck is extremely usable.
Deestan@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Hey I am not in need of convincing haha. Am Linux gamer and genuinely find it easier than Windows already.
Zink@programming.dev 3 weeks ago
Go install Linux Mint and you might just realize that line is already way behind microsoft.
Deestan@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Nah. Gonna stick to gaming on my GNU GUIX through Proton thanks.
CallMeAnAI@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
It’s not. There are plenty of bugs and hardware issues. Bluetootth from my motherboard doesn’t work and I can’t even turn my monitor off without having to remove and reinsert HDMI.
Bytemeister@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
My WiFi wouldn’t work until I disabled fast-boot in the BIOS and restarted the system twice.
TBF, even with that headache, setting up a windows 11 machine without signing up for an account and personalized ads takes more effort. So I consider it a total success.
GenosseFlosse@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
In the past, people assumed computers would get much easier to use. But instead you now need a comp aci degree to turn off all the BS Microsoft intentionally added to make your PC experience worse.
Zink@programming.dev 3 weeks ago
I didn’t say there were no issues.
My 4-monitor setup at work functions considerably better in both ubuntu and debian based Linux Mints than it does in Windows. Just your standard corporate Dell laptop & docking station.
No computers have zero weird stuff wrong with them. But over time the design intent has mattered more and more versus just the bugginess of the execution.
In my experience though, Linux has pulled ahead in both. And by a lot.
Bullerfar@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Linux is fucking easy already. Plenty of Distros out there, with preinstalled KDE Plasma, which is like a almost 1-1 transition from Windows :)
Vinstaal0@feddit.nl 2 weeks ago
I find that a lot of stuff is easier on Linux. Like downloading and updating most software. Heck the official Minecraft launcher works better on Linux with multiple accounts than on Windows. Just try some distro’s out
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
windows seems to be self-destructing , might be sooner than that.
UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 3 weeks ago
I feel like we actually got there a whole who, at least assuming basic use and fairly conventional hardware. Getting into the command line to fix stuff been be a pain, but so is navigating the absurd hierarchy of windows settings.
Assuming a computer that is already set up properly it’s pretty much a seamless experience. If your mom bought a laptop with mint and just used it for regular browsing and shit she probably couldn’t tell the difference.
Brkdncr@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Getting into the command line isn’t the problem. It’s the lack of consistency in how things are configured and the random command names that you have to remember or look up.
Windows might be tied to an online account, but Linux is tied to online communities to figure out nearly anything.
mybuttnolie@sopuli.xyz 3 weeks ago
to be fair, during the past few years that I’ve used mint and kubuntu, not being able to shutdown, restart or suspend has been pretty a common issue 😅 so it’ll be a nice familiarity for people migrating from windows
stephen01king@piefed.zip 3 weeks ago
I still have this issue on my Pop_OS! laptop.
mybuttnolie@sopuli.xyz 3 weeks ago
my kubuntu laptop gets like that every time i close the lid and wake it up. pleasantly surprised it hasn’t happened on ultramarine kde on my desktop…although it has a ton of different issues
muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
We already have obnoxiously “user-friendly” distros that make stupid assumptions we hate like windows does (Ubuntu) but get you out of box and going instantly. This has been solved. You start there, figure out what you hate, then migrate to something more your flavor.
Windows: there are 7 flavors that all taste the same and cost different amounts. Apple: it’s free because it only runs on our machines, which cost more and subsidize the OS development. This is fine because you will never leave, we think you’re going to love it. (Introduces Liquid Glass and wonders where everyone went) BSD: firewalls, PlayStations, and neckbeards. We know what we’re about. Linux: whatever, I don’t care, just wash your hands.
Siegfried@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
They had been doing this for a long time.
the_q@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
Linux is currently easier to use than Windows. People who think otherwise are Windows users who think different equals worse.
madcaesar@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
This is simply not true. I don’t understand what lying about this does for anyone.
As a recent Linux convert, pretty much every hardware has full windows support while Linux you’ll have to hunt for shit.
Basic stuff like Nvidia graphics cards or even Logitech peripherals will not “just work” on Linux.
Again, I love Linux and for me the pain was worth it, and most of the issues aren’t really Linux’s fault, it’s the manufacturers who are assholes, but your average windows user had no idea about who’s responsible when their mouse won’t work and they can’t install Logitech software.
TheLowestStone@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
On Linux Mint, my Nvidia graphics card and Logitech keyboard and mouse just worked.
innermachine@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
The support is getting better by the minute! I do think steam os has helped catapult Linux ahead from where it was just 5 years ago in terms of hardware support
frongt@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
I have a bunch of different laptop models at work. For the most part, they do all Just Work with Ubuntu.
At one point the newest models would drop to a black screen after installation, but I guess that was fixed with some update because even those work now.
Zink@programming.dev 3 weeks ago
Yeah, my old machines (and work laptop!) are all nvidia, and it’s nice how seamlessly it works.
With the main version of mint that’s based on ubuntu, you get a driver manager so that you can choose between driver versions if needed.
With Linux Mint Debian Edition, it worked fine for general use out of the box with the open source driver. I went looking for info about the nvidia driver out of curiosity, and after stumbling upon some forum discussion I went ahead and tried “sudo apt install nvidia-driver” and it freaking worked!
WolfLink@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Nvidia graphics cards don’t “just work” on windows either tbf
CallMeAnAI@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Yes they do. You do the community no favors pretending it’s not easy and reliable.
knatschus@discuss.tchncs.de 3 weeks ago
Weird i converted 3 systems to linux last year and every hardware was plug and play, except a 3070ti for which it was open the driver launcher and click once
BeyondRuby@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I swapped a year ago, I went from Mint to Fedora then to Cachy. I use Debian on a home server and now NixOS on my laptop. I would say this is more of an issue with you and or the distro you chose aswell your hardware. In the last two months I even swapped my little brother to fedora cause all he does is game and all of the sudden I am not having to help him do anything or fix random errors, the only “hard” part or searching was nvidia and that was simple after reading one page of documentation. It all depends on what you choose, your desire to learn and your hardware.
9bananas@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
if it’s just gaming, consider a side-grade to bazzite:
it’s an atomic fedora distro (even has a dedicated Nvidia installer), meaning it’s more difficult to break and easier to rollback when it breaks!
and it has a bunch of gaming related tools pre-installed, which is helpful, but not the main selling point imo.
anyways, yeah, linux gaming is really, REALLY easy these days!
drcobaltjedi@programming.dev 3 weeks ago
I’m sorry, I did IT for years and still do it for friends if they make it worth the trouble. So, I have to ask, what the hell are you talking about?
Pretty much every logitech paripheral has worked perfectly for me on both windows or linux. It’s a mouse and keyboard, generic drivers work perfectly fine. Hell, I use a trackball mouse and that works plig and play on linux. Hell, open up a new windows computer run through the setup then disconnect it from the internet then plug in a logitech keyboard. Look at the driver for it in windows, it will probably be “generic keyboard driver”. It’s a keyboard.
madcaesar@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Jesus fucking christ what is it with these agressive fucking responses?
www.logitechg.com/en-us/software/ghub
Literarily the official website doesn’t support Linux, my Logitech gaming mouse I have to dual boot windows to configure.
I don’t understand why people can’t simply admit that some shit sucks on Linux.
Windows is worse, worse for you and your privacy, but some things are simply plug and play for the average person noob on Windows that aren’t on Linux.
Being honest with people will prepare them to be patient and approach Linux with realistic expectations and they are more likely to stick around.
Jesus_666@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
The main difference is that the additional software you need to install doesn’t always come from the manufacturer on Linux. Other than that it’s actually pretty similar.
Heck, there are even devices that work better under Linux, such as the Logitech F710 gamepad. That one has been subtly incompatible with the USB stack of every Windows after 7 while it works with Linux just fine.
lightnsfw@reddthat.com 2 weeks ago
RIP Titan submersible
the_q@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
So your argument is the hardware is an issue where my argument is Linux is easier to use. My 78 year old mother in law uses Pop everyday and hasn’t had an issue in the 3 years since she switched. Hearing that you’re having issues with nvidia and Logitech is going to devastate her…
MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com 3 weeks ago
I’m not the person you’re responding to, but if I have headphones or speakers or a mouse that aren’t plug and play on Linux which is what I’m used to on windows, I think it’s fair to say that my experience with Linux is less easy than with windows. The average user is not going to consider that a hardware issue, and it isn’t a hardware issue. If it’s a driver issue, I’d call that a software issue. Im glad to hear your grandma is not having issues with Linux, but as a Linux user I have to agree with the other commenter. A not insignificant amount of people will run up against some issues with Linux that the average user is likely not equipped to solve. I’m not saying that it means Linux is bad, but it really isn’t helpful to act like that’s a complete fabrication.
RedstoneValley@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
You might have been unlucky. I never had serious installation issues when installing Ubuntu on a lot of different computers in the past five years. Just started the installer, click next a few times and reboot into the new installation. It used to be some tinkering required to get everything to work, but apart from having to enable the proprietary Nvidia driver in a GUI (and having to search for it) everything else just worked. My last Windows install however was a shitshow. Took ages and I had to disable a ton of surveillance stuff. On top of that I had to go through some weird hoops to keep the thing from requiring me to create a Microsoft account. What distro did you use? I guess some are more difficult than others
Damage@slrpnk.net 3 weeks ago
Distribution choice makes a lot of difference, but they’re not wrong, manufacturers just don’t write drivers for Linux. Sure, we’ve got AMD, Intel, and even nVidia (fuck nVidia btw) writing theirs, but peripherals are way more hit or miss.
That’s only going to be solved with wider adoption.
atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
On Fedora I go to the repo (app store) and install the Nvidia drivers… on windows I have to download them from the Nvidia site. I’m not sure what you are talking about. Linux is easier but it’s pretty much the same process.
For Logitech use Solaar, also available in most distribution’s repos.
suicidaleggroll@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Exactly. A lot of people seem to think that different = worse, or that not supporting the same software means it supports less software. I couldn’t move to Windows right now because there is a ton of stuff I use Linux for that Windows has no alternative, or the alternatives are terrible. It works both ways.
innermachine@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Honestly, I love having a w11 rig AND a laptop with zorin and a laptop with w10 and a old all in one with mint. Variety is the spice of life, I need a Windows laptop to tune my cars ecus. Simply not able to do it in Linux, but my Linux laptop has stuff my windows doesn’t. Real ones can’t just live with one os B)
tate@lemmy.sdf.org 3 weeks ago
I wonder if the software you need for cars would run under Wine.
For years I kept one Windows laptop running only so I could use one proprietary app that I used occasionally when teaching. It was not ideal, but whatever. Then Windows started showing ads. on the desktop. that I was showing to my students! That I will not tolerate. So I poked around with Wine and found out I could run that app on my Mint laptop!
Goodbye forever TinyFlaccid. Go fuck yourself.
(note: I do have to use a windows machine for one thing still - to print at work using my company supplied office computer.)
Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
As someone who’s worked in IT for years, it’s my opinion that different is worse.
I don’t really mind supporting multiple operating systems, it is a little more of a hassle, but it’s far better than supporting users on systems they’re not familiar with. As much of a nice idea it is to “streamline” an organization by putting every machine on the same os, in my experience it actually works better to put everyone in whatever os they’re most comfortable with. For a lot of people computers are hard, period. And needing to learn new systems just to do their job is the kind of thing they have nightmares about.
When it comes right down to, any modern operating system will do just fine, they’re shockingly similar in the end. Plus, in many industries upwards of 80% of a user’s work may be in a browser anyway. So that’s where I stand, people should use whatever they want, and making people change isn’t a great idea.
Brkdncr@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I just set up a raspberry pi and i couldn’t figure out if it would automatically update, there wasn’t any gui option for it.
I found a few websites all with different methods to set up auto update. One of the most accepted was some cli that was encouraged to copy/paste. It installed something, but it then needed additional config to work on rpi.
30 mins from the time I powered on it was ready. In windows, it’s enabled out of the box and searching for “updates” on the task bar finds it for you.
Which of these OS’s was easier?
StrawberryPigtails@lemmy.sdf.org 3 weeks ago
Raspberry OS is, imho, is not really representative of the desktop Linux experience. It’s a bit like Gentoo or Arch. Great OS’s, for their intended use cases.
While RPis with Raspberry OS can be a decent desktop replacement in a pinch (I’ve done it), it’s more intended for learning and experimentation.
If you’re intending to use it as your primary computer, I’d recommend using Ubuntu or Fedora. And running the OS on an USB3 external solid state drive.
Brkdncr@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Fair, but why not enable updates by default? Not doing so seems like a disservice to the internet community.
Railcar8095@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Last time I used Raapbian there was a GUI for updates, and I think it would show a notification periodically for updates.
This is mostly a difference of not knowing really. I have a Mac at work and it seems incredibly hard to do easy things, but mostly because I’m not used to it nor I bother to learn.
kescusay@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Which version of Linux did you install? It supports a lot of them, and most have updaters that are easily configured from the task bar, just like Windows.
Brkdncr@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Stock rpi released in December.
MalMen@masto.pt 3 weeks ago
@Brkdncr @the_q in some cases is windows, in some cases is linux..
I developped an browser exntesion that needed do comunicate with external apps, in linux I setup the NativeHost file and took about 15 mins to make that comunication, on windows I took several hours debugin regedit
cv_octavio@piefed.ca 3 weeks ago
If “easier” is not knowing how something works, and it’s complicated, then there’s your metric.
To me, life is always made simpler through my understanding of a problem, and more complex by my paving over/abdication of critical thought.
the_q@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
Was this before or after you had to hop into command prompt to force a local account?
Godort@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
I get what you’re saying, but it’s not really true.
If the only program you run is a web browser, then you’re probably right, but only because Linux expects you to know how to use your computer and install updates yourself.
Linux has achieved a very stable OS that offers a very granular experience, which is great if you know what you’re doing, but if you don’t, it’s pretty arcane. The ability to configure everything on your system exactly how you want it to run is a double edged sword.
If you want anything beyond what is offered out of the box, you’ll need to interact with the terminal at some point, which is a pretty steep learning curve for the average user.
the_q@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
So Windows users don’t need the command prompt?
Godort@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
Not unless you’re a sysadmin or a power user, no, not really.
gwl@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 weeks ago
Aye, if you’re not using any of the preconfigured forks like Bazzite, popOS! or Mint
But they exist cause they install all that shit for you, same as Windows does
Deestan@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
It is.
And honestly, remembering the stuff I had to do to play the original Doom at a LAN party back in the day.
We all did that back then!
If someone was a “gamer” they were not afraid to do this because they either knew how or knew a friend who was happy to help.
Compare that to what I do today that most gamers consider “mind-numbingly super nerd impossible bullshit lol linux sux”, running GNU GUIX:
O hey everything just works. Proton kicks in automatically.
the_q@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
Welcome to the convo, fellow old person.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
Correct.
If you can’t figure a modern linux distro, that is specifically geared towards being n00b friendly (there are a good number) …
… its time to retire from thinking you are tech savvy, its time to hang up that hat, time to humble yourself a bit, realize you overspecialized in the wrong direction.
scala@lemmy.ml 3 weeks ago
Installation of the any Linux OS is also easier to install. And much quicker.
python@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Sometimes different is even better! When I switched to Linux a few months back I didn’t anticipate just how much I would like the Gnome desktop environment. Now I sometimes even try flicking down my mouse to switch tabs on my Win11 work pc and get a pang of disappointment when it doesn’t work.
Fredselfish@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Find me two programs and I will switch completely. Ome that allows me to burn my dvd/blu rays with no cap. Second app I have is I have Audible and I can download the files. Then with TunFab convert those files into MP3s. Only reason I am still using Windows. Oh not to mention the app that allows me to pull Amazon Music files and convert them to MP3s.
MrRazamataz@lemmy.razbot.xyz 3 weeks ago
What’s the app for Amazon Music? Or does it just record them from the website version?
Fredselfish@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
TunePat Amazon Music.
Smoogs@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Oh so you have met my aunt
Datz@szmer.info 3 weeks ago
I never used Win11 but I started using Linux (Nobara OS, by friend’s advice) in November, and not really. If you never used either, I’m sure the learning process is as easy, but switching isn’t.
I wanted onedrive on desktop to conveniently edit .tex files, which I can’t do on browser. The most popular option worked at first (after figuring out the terminal), but has bugs with downloading every once in a while (And Nobara doesn’t update it as consistently). The second didn’t work at all. The third, I got to connect, but I couldn’t get it to make a synced folder, on top of misleading description (the flatpack I found said it manages cloud, but it was the GUI for a package you needed to install via terminal anyway. And Nobara encourages to only use flatpacks, rightfully it seems) So I’m sticking with the buggy one and downloading the files from browser occasionally.
For that matter, installing TeXStudio had a font related bug too, and the solution was between the lines of a post about a slightly different problem and final solution.
The first installation (where I picked Fedora instead of Nobara at first) led to the laptop not booting, where my friend said “yeah that happens, I backup before I install something” (though he uses Arch), and I also accidentally installed Steam twice because the discover flatpack is a seperate one from the Nobara preinstall.
Windows? Most things are an .exe you launch, or have instructions specifically for Windows (complete with typical directories) while Linux has to account for at least a dozen distros.