cross-posted from: slrpnk.net/post/8569504
How is the hydrogen made?
[deleted]
How is the hydrogen made?
Submitted 7 months ago by anzo@programming.dev to science_memes@mander.xyz
https://slrpnk.net/pictrs/image/fe3a09f7-71b5-4736-a2c0-66851363937a.webp
Comments
the_of_and_a_to@lemmy.world 7 months ago
scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 7 months ago
Which, I’m all for us all reducing our footprint too, but knowing that at the same time we should be matching oil and gas executives through the streets for old fashioned tar and feathering at the same time.
Honytawk@lemmy.zip 7 months ago
Maybe we should hit them back with the corporate co2 footprint
Lets calculate the amount of pollution divided by the amount of employees
exocrinous@startrek.website 7 months ago
BP told me it was my fault they were emitting carbon, because I was paying them to do it. So I stopped paying them. No car. And I want the government to ban cars among other reforms so nobody else pays them.
JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
You can make hydrogen greenly with electricity and electrolysis. But I doubt BP is doing that.
SyntheticBlood@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Where is the electricity coming from?
JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
Extra solar and wind capacity ideally, but again, I don’t trust BP with that.
prex@aussie.zone 7 months ago
BP apparently
mo_lave@reddthat.com 7 months ago
You know, when a proton and electron love each other very much…
observantTrapezium@lemmy.ca 7 months ago
Hydrogen was made approximately 400,000 after the big bang in a process called recombination, as the universe cooled down enough for stable neutral atoms to exist.
wewbull@feddit.uk 7 months ago
OMFG that thread is full of people missing the point.
marcos@lemmy.world 7 months ago
You mean the people literally answering the question? I doubt anybody is missing the point.
triplenadir@lemmygrad.ml 7 months ago
v unsurprising that an anticommunist instance has so many people shilling for oil companies imo
weariedfae@lemmy.world 7 months ago
I’ll bite. I have no idea what the picture is doing or referencing and the joke answers are confusing because, again, I don’t get “the joke”.
wewbull@feddit.uk 7 months ago
The attack-🪿 is asking BP how the hydrogen is made because it’s an important question.
Hydrogen can be made multiple ways.
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Split water (H²O) with electricity. You get ⅔ H and ⅓ O. When you burn the H you’ll get water back and ⅔ the energy you put in. In this way it can actually as a poor battery.
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Take Methane (CH⁴), the major part of natural gas and split it. You get ⅘ H and ⅕ carbon. So you’re releasing the same carbon that you would release if you just burnt the methane, and you’ll get less energy too. Then take away the energy it took to split the methane and you’re a lot worse off for no saving in carbon.
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Other oil and gas based sources, but that follow the theme of methane.
Only the first one is “green”, and only if the electricy comes from a green source (like solar or wind). Burning gas to make electricity to make hydrogen is stupid.
Oil and gas companies companies keep pushing hydrogen as green power, but really they want to keep selling oil and gas, and if they need to convert it into hydrogen to do it, that’s fine in their eyes. Doesn’t matter if they are still pumping carbon out of the ground. Doesn’t matter if it’s less efficient. It’s green washing plain and simple.
Attack 🪿 is asking the question that would make them admit this.
That thread was full of people complaining that nobody was doing anything with hydrogen and it was stupid to power cars from electricity directly. They are all just O&G company shills
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FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Attack geese.
I’d normally suggest that attack geese are against geneva conventions or something… but these guys… they got it coming.
peto@lemm.ee 7 months ago
They aren’t legal combatants, it’s all fine.
FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 7 months ago
oh. good. glad that’s sorted. Lets also activate the uplands geese for naval operations.
EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de 7 months ago
first you’d have to purify water by distilling it and then putting it through an R.O. with a regular water filter as a pre-filter.
Then once you have that completely pure mix of hydrogen and oxygen you’d need to do electrolysis on the water. But that initial purifying process would have to be done very strictly, because if there’s even the smallest amount of salt or even chlorine in that water, or any other minerals then you could have a mixture of some very dangerous elements in the air around the water
lauha@lemmy.one 7 months ago
During peak wind or solar hours when the electricity usage is often lower otherwise.
Phoonzang@lemmy.world 7 months ago
…and with what devices? Currently, there’s 11 GW of Electrolysis capacity available worldwide, with about 400 GW potentially realised by 2030. That’s 0.07% now of the total production of 16 TW from fossils, increasing to a whopping 2.5% in 2030. And that does not take into account that energy markets will be competing with industry that uses hydrogen as a reduction agent (steel, for example) to replace fossils. It also does not take into account that hydrogen is not as easy to transport than other fossils.
Hydrogen might be the solution to the energy crisis, but for that we’d have to pick up our game immensely. Which will not happen if everyone thinks hydrogen is already freely and abundantly available.
!Remind me in 20 years
Blackmist@feddit.uk 7 months ago
I mean, it’s a tweet from BP.
The P don’t stand for photovoltaics…
Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
To save you all a google: it’s made from natural gas, at a pretty significant energy loss compared to just burning the gas.
bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de 7 months ago
Image
FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Time to arm the swans and Canada geese, too.
JoBo@feddit.uk 7 months ago
That is true of all colours of hydrogen other than green (and possibly natural stores of ‘fossil’ hydrogen if they can be extracted without leakage).
Green hydrogen is better thought of as a battery than a fuel. It’s a good way to store the excess from renewables and may be the only way to solve problems like air travel.
How hydrogen is transforming these tiny Scottish islands
That’s not to say it’s perfect. Hydrogen in the atmosphere slows down the decomposition of methane so leaks must be kept well below 5% or the climate benefits are lost. We don’t have a good way to measure leaks. It’s also quite inefficient because a lot of energy is needed to compress it for portable uses.
And, of course, the biggest problem is that Big Carbon will never stop pushing for dirtier hydrogens to be included in the mix, if green hydrogen paves the way.
Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
Storing hydrogen is also really hard. It needs to be kept extremely cold, and when it isn’t, it tends to pass right through most storage units.
But as a local battery, it can be very useful. Or for applications in large machinery where batteries aren’t a useful option yet.
MashedTech@lemmy.world 7 months ago
If the leaks of hydrogen should be kept under 5%, we don’t have a good track record of keeping gas leaks under control anyway…
youtu.be/K2oL4SFwkkw?si=Kn-uO64U4X5B_szD
Tobberone@lemm.ee 7 months ago
And better yet, if the excess heat can be used. Last Friday i heard a sales rep from a (green) hydrogen company describe their solution as a heating solution that produce hydrogen at an energy storage conference. Seems fair to me😊
Eatspancakes84@lemmy.world 7 months ago
I really don’t get why hydrogen remains popular. Hydrogen is significantly less efficient than lithium batteries in storing electricity. There are currently dozens of technologies on the way for improving batteries beyond what’s possible with lithium. So what’s the market potential for green hydrogen again?
lens17@feddit.de 7 months ago
In case anyone wants to read up on it
Ephera@lemmy.ml 7 months ago
Oh great, and I was wondering why some of our policians were pushing hydrogen cars as an alternative to electric cars, despite even the car industry telling them to shut the fuck up.
jabjoe@feddit.uk 7 months ago
Some of car industry. Some are dumb or corrupt. Then a lot people/consumers just see the range and zero ‘direct’ emissions. They don’t look at cost per mile, total energy efficiency, fuel storage and distribution, etc.
pewgar_seemsimandroid@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 months ago
the car industry have brains?
danekrae@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Are those CO2 emissions? I don’t get where the CO2 comes from.
I know this is an animation, but it shows pretty well, how hydrogen is made from natural gas. No CO2 emissions. And using the hydrogen should produce H2O.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHseMOXbefs
Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
In reverse order:
1 - it needs to be tranported
2 - it needs to compressed and cooled, in order to transport it. You need to cool it down around 1700 degrees, because:
3 - methane pyrolysis is done at around 1500 degrees C, getting something that hot isn’t free.
4 - methane isn’t the only component in natural gas, so you need to seperate out all the impurities.
5 - methane is a very strong contributor to global warming, so any natural gas leak from the drill to the factory adds co2equivalent.
6 - you need to extract natural gas from the ground and transport it, which takes energy.
peto@lemm.ee 7 months ago
I think the issue is where the energy to heat the reaction vessel comes from. The video shows green sources, but that isn’t the only way to do it. The thing is, this is ultimately an energy storage tech rather than an energy generation tech. You need excess capacity to make it work, and if that means you have to make up for a shortful with conventional generators elsewhere, you aren’t actually saving anything.
I don’t know if the previous poster is right of course, but the planet is an almost closed system, and there really is no such thing as a free lunch when it comes to energy.
mambabasa@slrpnk.net 7 months ago
Finally, a correct answer within the context.
triplenadir@lemmygrad.ml 7 months ago
Stop Doing Marketing for Fossil Fuel Companies by Calling it “Natural” Gas Challenge
cloudless@lemmy.cafe 7 months ago
Any evidence to your claim?
eia.gov/…/natural-gas-and-the-environment.php
Natural gas is a relatively clean burning fossil fuel
czardestructo@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Burning natural gas isn’t so awful but getting it out of the ground and to the place where is needs to be burned is always overlooked. It’s a gas, it wants to escape and much of the infrastructure leaks and so a great deal is lost before its used. I walk around Boston and no joke you just SMELL it all the time because the infrastructure is so old. Natural gas is also mostly methane which when leaked is 80 times more potent than CO2. Furthermore much natural gas needs to be transported on ships to be uses. To summarize there is no ‘greener’ fossil fuels it’s all to be avoided if possible.
SkybreakerEngineer@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Cleaner than coal is a very low bar. 60% of the emissions of coal is still way too much
Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
Sure, the primary dutch co2 source website: …translate.goog/lijst-emissiefactoren/?_x_tr_sl=n…
Translated, because nobody speaks dutch.
Hjalamanger@feddit.nu 7 months ago
That’s the states for actually burned natural gas. Natural gas is basically methane and is therefore not too good for the climate when it leaks (which it does)
JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
It does result in higher methane emissions, which have a ln ~30x larger greenhouse effect than CO2.
See here: youtu.be/K2oL4SFwkkw
MyFairJulia@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Didn‘t we have a process to electrically synthesize hydrogen out of water?
greyw0lv@lemmy.ml 7 months ago
Electrolysis, it works but it takes a lot of energy to produce, so burning hydrogen from this would be a fools errand.
maniel@sopuli.xyz 7 months ago
I thought it’s made through electrolysis
Honytawk@lemmy.zip 7 months ago
You can, but it is totally inefficient
You get about 30% of the energy out that you put in
essteeyou@lemmy.world 7 months ago
How is natural gas made? How is natural gas more natural than natural element?
Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
Is this a real question? It’s methane, ethane, propane and butane, mixed with carbon dioxide, and we get it from underground.
cynar@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Natural gas is a byproduct of ancient organic material being buried and slowly cooked by the earth’s heat. The hydrocarbons of the plant break down, and the gas rises. Under certain conditions, it gets trapped below non-porous rock and builds up.
Basically, all fossil fuels are Carbon fixed from CO2 by plants, then trapped underground. The solid material we call coal, the liquid oil and the gas natural gas.