Dark patterns killed my wife’s Windows 11 installation – OSnews

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Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨lemmydividebyzero@reddthat.com⁩ to ⁨technology@lemmy.world⁩

https://www.osnews.com/story/143376/dark-patterns-killed-my-wifes-windows-11-installation/

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Reygle@lemmy.world ⁨32⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
Face it. Microslop is a malware company now.

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Mulligrubs@lemmy.world ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
This is my last Windows laptop.

There’s a massive delay to even open my control panel. Fundamental, easy tasks that I’ve accomplished reliably since Windows XP are no longer reliable. Multiple problems, I have no confidence anything will work.

Think of all the wasted time for so many millions of people around the world

Last week my television started translating programs into Spanish. No fucking reason. Far too much wasted on a slow menu to fix.

Recently, I could no longer use necessary phone app with no-option utility; due to the latest Apple OS update, it would no longer function. Time for a new phone to replace my few-years-old phone.

A newer car from 2024… long story short, reflecting lights caused camera issues, triggering all sorts of driver vocal alerts like KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE ROAD. Off to the dealer. Later, updates change the user interface without warning; it’s like having all of the buttons on your dashboard rearranged spontaneously.

All of these issues are on modern hardware that hasn’t been modified in any way.

My apologies for losing my mind, first world problems. But it’s relentless

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- captainlezbian@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I’m sorry, wtf why does a car know where your eyes are‽
  
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- PabloSexcrowbar@piefed.social ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  
  slow menu
  
  Dude of all the things I hate about modern tech, I think the most obnoxious one is that it STILL takes multiple seconds for a simple text-based menu to load. On my one TV, sometimes it takes so long to load that I actually forget that I’ve opened it and am annoyed when it finally shows up. Gotta save all that precious compute power to load ads and shit, I guess.
  
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  - lightnsfw@reddthat.com ⁨59⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
    I was just talking about this with one of my coworkers today. It’s so stupid. Wtf are doing?
    
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whaleross@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
TL;dr New Samsung phone syncs 280GB of photos to OneDrive that in turn fills the laptop storage . At some point something has become corrupted with attempting to log in and change password when the laptop disk is full.

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- Burninator05@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Yes, all of that happened but it happened because Samsung uploaded the photos without clear authorization and Microsoft downloaded all of the files without authorization after One Drive was automatically reinstalled after the user deliberately removed it.
  
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  - 27Purple@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago
    The thing is you do get the choice to sync the account, it’s not automagic, so the writer saying “she didn’t authorize it” is actually false. Generalizing here but most non-tech literate people generally sort to just pressing “next next yes” on everything so it’s not unlikely she’s simply authorized it without actually realizing it. Same with Onedrive sync, it’s not automatic, you get the option but it’s very simple to opt out during OOBE or when prompted in Windows, but most people simply look at it and say “that sounds neat”.
    
    That said the OOBE on new Samsungs is absolutely atrocious and I don’t blame her for ending up in this situation. It’s like a 20 step process on the S25 (I have one so I know what it’s like) and I’m definitely not defending the clusterfuck that Windows is. I feel for both of them. I’m just saying there are some inaccuracies.
    
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Hazzard@lemmy.zip ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Ah, Windows and OneDrive. A match made in hell.

I’ve despised them ever since I built a Win11 PC, it was enabled without my consent, immediately stopped me from adding any new files to my Desktop+Documents once it ran out of the pitiful 5 free gigabytes, and promptly deleted all of my data from those folders when I deactivated the “feature”.

That miserable experience, combined with every third update putting me through a setup that employed dark patterns to try to trick me into turning it back on (not to mention my fears that they’d pull the same crap with Recall), was the main thing that caused me to ditch Windows. I don’t like feeling dread every time there’s a new update, assholes.

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- lemmydividebyzero@reddthat.com ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  But the shareholder value!!!111
  
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reksas@sopuli.xyz ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
no matter how difficult you think linux is to use, can it really be that difficult compared to windows? At least with linux any problems can be solved one way or another and with varying levels of effort. With windows, you just have to deal with the ever increasing levels of bullshit. And if you dont need to do anything complicated and use pc just for browsing, email and other simple stuff, why would you put yourself through using windows to do it? People should really consider if the mental models they have in their heads about different operating systems are actually based on reality.

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- huggingstars@programming.dev ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  With Windows you simply have much less problems to solve. Normal people don’t care about jumping through hoops to create local accounts, they’ll just register.
  
  Windows interfaces are designed for easy learning and backed by real telemetry data from millions of systems, like Ribbon menus. On Linux power users run the show so even blatant violations of basic principles tend to stick since the development version is the shipped version and is what they are used to.
  
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  - reksas@sopuli.xyz ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Though when you do encounter problems in windows, they will likely be something that just cant be solved or its unnecessarily big hassle. Or bad stuff will happen that was mostly out of your hands in the first place, like what happened with the article.
    
    But yeah, there should be a distro that is specificially aimed for tech illiterate people that is nice and easy to use and also safe. But then again, if majority started using linux it might also draw more attention from malicious parties like criminals and corporations. Its just that for me, once you have linux set up and automated, you dont need to do anything complicated with it if you dont want to. At least i havent had to on mint. I understand that basic users can’t do that on their own, but I bet there are tons of people who have skills to do so and could do it for a reasonable pay or even as a favor to friend.
    
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- MangoCats@feddit.it ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  
  People should really consider if the mental models they have in their heads about different operating systems are actually based on reality.
  
  These people’s reality is: they are familiar with Windows, and anything else is scary and perceived as even more difficult to learn to use. 20 years ago a colleague asked me about changing to Linux, I told him he could do all the same things he was doing, just use Open Office instead of MS Word and Excel, GIMP instead of Photoshop - he didn’t even dive as deep as the differences between GIMP and Photoshop usage, his response was: “You mean I’ll have to learn all new icons and names for my software?” “Well, yeah, that’s part of moving.” “In that case I don’t think Linux is for me.” “I have to agree with you there.”
  
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  - reksas@sopuli.xyz ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    oh… if the bar is there then I dont even know what to say…
    
    For me, such way of thinking is really alien.
    
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- sveltecider@lemmy.ca ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I use Linux and Mac and windows and Linux is definitely the “hardest” to use for most people day to day. I think most people on this site are in tech so they underestimate just how tech illiterate the average person is.
  
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- lobut@lemmy.ca ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  It “can” be … it’s just what people are more familiar with sometimes and new terms that seem native like: “control panel” “command prompt” “regedit” can be strange to people that haven’t. It’s not that they can’t learn it, it’s just a bit of an uphill battle.
  
  Hell, Bazzite confused me for a bit because I didn’t know wtf an immutable distro was.
  
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  - reksas@sopuli.xyz ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    yeah, bazzite is still somewhat confusing to me because its so different from other distros i have used. But whenever i dont know or understand something i just search for guides and explanations or if nothing else works or i feel lazy i might even cave in to ask llm for info. Idea of not looking up information is just something that doesnt even occur to me, its like refusing to be autonomous.
    
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Catnipchewer@lemmy.world ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Linux is waiting patiently for that woman

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- stardreamer@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Devil’s advocate here: switching to Linux wouldn’t help here.
  
  I recently had to set up a public web server for a org that I belonged to. The idea was that I would set everything up in the most secure and unbreakable way I can think of, write documentation on how to do everything, transfer ownership of all the “break glass” credentials and lock my own account once I’m done.
  
  This turned out to be a huge mistake. What was supposed to be some free work for a hobby group turned into a massive pain every day at 3-4am (due to time zone differences)
  
  The person in charge of managing access control couldn’t figure out how wg-easy works. She managed to give her own credentials to EVERYONE who needed access, which obviously didn’t work due to IP conflicts. When pointed out, she modified the IP in every config file, which of course, still didn’t work. It took forever to tell her NOT to share credentials and create new peers for each user.
  
  The biggest problem is some how NOT windows or mac users. There is a single Linux user that is causing the most headaches. When I set up wireguard, I tested on both Linux and Windows, with Linux being what I used. I ran into some minor hiccups with getting split dns to work correctly, but it was relatively easy to fix in Network Manager. I assumed if there are other Linux users they would be able to fix it themselves. Obviously I was wrong.
  
  Said person had DoH enabled in their browser that they didn’t know how to disable, running varieties of “I don’t know” for their network stack, DNS resolver, etc. almost every question for dig, cat /etc/resolv.conf descended into “what’s that?” or completely incorrect commands (e.g. resolving a http url in dig). I could not figure out what the person was running, the person themselves had no idea what was running (I think it was systemd-resolvd, but I still don’t know as of now). Eventually, after 3 workdays of trying to help fix this at 3-4am, I gave up. I can’t help with a personal device belonging to somebody that has no idea what they’re doing.
  
  As for why I’m mentioning this story: switching to Linux wouldn’t help this lady with her problem. There are similar issues on linux that would prevent a login or a graphical session (there was an old work machine that ran VLC, where VLC threw GBs worth of QT errors, eventually causing systemd to crash on reboot when the drive was full). The problem here isn’t just the system, it’s the user. If the general mindset is “I don’t know what’s wrong with no details”, there’s no savings the user from technical problems.
  
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  - Muffindrake@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Oh yeah, starting your post with
    
    ‘I set up a web-facing server for this niche group so I can provide unpaid tech support at 4am’ is definitely on every normal user’s mind at all times.
    
    The missing undertone here, which is present in about every issue involving Windows 11 ever since it was released, is the corporate enshittification, the unerring fatigue of normal users of avoidance to
    
    go the fuck away from this cursed idiocy, and last but not least people like you going ‘hmm yes but akshually’ in sort-of-defense-but-not-really of the deliberately malicious and billion-dollar company.
    
    We have been conditioned to view people that criticize the corporatism in this Western society with the same lens as we used to conspiracy theorists. You need to call this out as propaganda wherever you see it. The people who cannot describe the price of a supermarket banana or bread are not your friends.
    
    Look at it this way: A normal dude with bad hair and questionable social intelligence isn’t getting up in the morning and deciding to fuck with a million or more users by making their computers unbootable. There is only good intentions. Sometimes the Lennart Poetterings fuck up - but we will send three long-haired dudes with funny glasses to your place to fix your tank for free, as you did.
    
    Whereas with Shitmicro Operating System, they have continually demonstrated that they’re here to sell you ads and make everything so much shittier like you would not have believed twenty years ago.
    
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Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

Dark patterns killed my wife

For unknown reasons, I stopped reading the headline at this point for about 3 seconds…

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- QuantumSparkles@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Yeah I did the same and thought I was about to read an extremely dark conspiracy theory blog post
  
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- sveltecider@lemmy.ca ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  That’s for OpenAI, not Microsoft
  
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KiwiTB@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
This same issue can happen if your bios is updated by Windows in some cases as the bios resets, security is considered changed so your pin is set as invalid… Despite it being Windows which caused the issue. AHH Microsoft, incompetence defined.

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Smoogs@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
All my computers are now Linux. My next phone is going to be fairphone cuz fuck all this shit.

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spaghettiwestern@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

Let me, for once, not mince words here: Windows 11 is a travesty, a loose collection of dark patterns and incompetence, run by people who have zero interest in lovingly crafting an operating system they can be proud of. Windows has become a vessel for subscriptions and ads, and cannot reasonably be considered anything other than a massive pile of user-hostile dark patterns designed to extract data, ad time, and subscription money from its users.

I ran into the same type of problem trying to reset the forgotten MS password for a friend. In her case she could log in to her PC with a PIN but not her password, and her MS email was still accessible from the PC but not her phone.

Attempting to change the password resulted in an “SMS service not available” message 90% of the time over a period of days. The few times the service was available and it said we successfully changed the password, the new password would not work, even when we were positive it was entered correctly. The SSD wasn’t anywhere near full.

Microsoft then turned the days already wasted because of their incompetence into a week. As a last ditch effort we tried Microsoft’s 24 hour turn-around password reset questionnaire three times. The new password was still rejected both on her PC and phone every single time.

We eventually had to give up. If her PC or her Outlook app ever asks for a password she’ll lose all access and that’s apparently just fine with Microsoft. When she does buy a new PC it’ll be an Apple.

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- WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  
  When she does buy a new PC it’ll be an Apple.
  
  an apple? Because of this? why? why is it not an option to use a computer without an online account?
  
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  - spaghettiwestern@sh.itjust.works ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Microsoft is making it impossible to use Windows PCs without an online account. Obviously there’s Linux, but I’m not willing to be her only source of tech support. That leaves Apple.
    
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  - MangoCats@feddit.it ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    OS-X (they still use that, right? Not iOS desktop or somesuch nonsense, yet?) seemed pretty much a middle ground between Windows and Linux the last time I used it. Kinda slightly more polished and uniform presentation than Ubuntu-du-jour, a little less mysterious than Windows, but in the end: just as screwed up.
    
    I tried enabling Home folder encryption. After about 3 days a hard power-off shutdown (needed due to a driver error in their walled-garden hardware MacBook Pro, it wouldn’t power off or restart any other way) then the encrypted home folder was toast, unretrievable - laptop wouldn’t boot. Tech support was very nice, reassuring that they knew what was going on, and their best solution? Reinstall the OS from physical media, start over fresh, your files are so secure that not you or anybody else on the planet will ever see them again.
    
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Shadowcrawler@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Perfect opportunity to install linux instead of the joke that win11 is

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Burninator05@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

The only course of action most Windows users would take at this point is a full reinstallation.

I think most users would either hire someone to reinstall Windows for them or would decide to buy a new laptop. The fun part is that as soon as they log into their MS account after a reload/purchase the sync would happen again and they would be right back where they started.

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bhamlin@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
What a long winded way to tell us something we already know: don’t use onedrive.

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- LeapSecond@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  They weren’t using OneDrive either
  
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  - bhamlin@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Clearly they were, even if accidentally. It currently doesn’t load stuff to the internet if it doesn’t have an account to bill for storage.
    
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- RxBrad@infosec.pub ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  I believe the last time I had to do a Windows re-install, I was nagged THREE times to enable OneDrive. Each time, the opt out button was increasingly difficult to locate, and the verbiage more & more resembling “you’re an idiot if you don’t enable this”.
  
  Even after refusing to use it x3, once Windows was installed, OneDrive was still sitting down in the system tray, ready to fuck shit up.
  
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- jjlinux@lemmy.zip ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  You actually think you decide to use one drive or not when you use Windows? So naive.
  
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voodooattack@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

2025-09-18

What’s up with the old reposts today?

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- lemmydividebyzero@reddthat.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Well, I found some nice blogs and enjoyed reading a few articles today on my weekend and I though “maybe, others enjoy those, too”, so I shared 3 of them. They got around 900 upvotes in total, so I think, that was not a bad decision (for me, it’s not about internet points, but about discourse / seeing what others think).
  
  I also couldn’t find past posts of this article in technology@lemmy.world, so it shouldn’t be a duplicate -> reddthat.com/search?q=dark+patterns&type=All&list…
  
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  - spaghettiwestern@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Lots of people miss posts and there’s always someone who oh-so offended and thinks if they’ve seen something, everyone else has too. Thanks for (re)posting this.
    
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- jjlinux@lemmy.zip ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  What’s up with the Gestapo investigation on the calendar?
  
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jordanlund@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Weird, I recently bought that same phone and did not have that problem. Why?

“Do you want to transfer your files from another device?”

No.

Just no. I don’t need your help, I can do this myself. Previous phone is backed up to my NAS, I can restore what I want from there.

I see a new phone as an opportunity to leave stuff behind. It’s on the NAS if I REALLY need it.

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- Broken@lemmy.ml ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  See…the “problem” with this is that it’s work.
  
  Its not work to say no. Its work for all the stuff leading up to that. You had to think about how you want your files stored, organized, and backed up. You had to think about how you wanted to access it all and from where. Then you had to set all that stuff up to work.
  
  The vast majority of people don’t do this. Partly for not knowing how to but mostly for not wanting to try to figure out a system that works for them.
  
  They just want things to work when they need them and not think about it at any other time. Gee, I wonder what could ever go wrong with that mentality.
  
  And I don’t want to blame the victim here, because the root of this particular story still doesn’t change.
  
  But there is a little bit of self responsibility that needs to be had. If you give big tech all the controls, you are at their mercy to what they do. But to have any semblance of control yourself, you need to take it. Then you have the power to say no.
  
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- jjlinux@lemmy.zip ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Very wise. I approve.
  
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turboSnail@piefed.europe.pub ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Yikes! That was pretty messed up. Goes to show that you can’t really trust Microsoft or Samsungto handle things for you.

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MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
This is also a case where EU still sleeps; that you have to agree to some end user agrerment and possibly log-in to some account to even start using your smartphone.

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