The world is trying to log off U.S. tech

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Submitted ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨Beep@lemmus.org⁩ to ⁨technology@lemmy.world⁩

https://restofworld.org/2026/big-tech-backlash-alternatives-upscrolled/

Countries are growing uneasy about their dependence on U.S. technology firms.

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homes@piefed.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
The US held a unique privilege of being the world’s tech leader, their IT buddy.

Now that we’ve violated everyone’s trust, we will likely never get that position back.

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- DeuxChevaux@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  As they say: it takes decades to grow a forest, but only one match to burn it down.
  
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  - homes@piefed.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    There are those who learn from the past mistakes of themselves and others…
    
    and there are those who don’t…
    
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  - M137@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    That really doesn’t fit here IMO. It took decades of bullshit, law breaking, blatant spying, hostile persuasion etc. of US IT being forced onto the world, and without Trump and the fucking nightmare circus that’s going on this wouldn’t have happened. The world would have kept bending the knee and even inviting all of it forever, it took THIS MUCH to get the world to take a step back and realise that this isn’t a good thing.
    
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- phoenixz@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Ding ding ding
  
  And that IS a good thing. It’s great that it happened, I just wish it had happened 2 decades ago and before IT companies yeeted the fworld off a cliff into hell
  
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  - WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    No, now is the perfect time, because the rest of the world would get corrupt as hell. This will cause a massive leftwards shift, right around the dawn of AI.
    
    We don’t want an AM.
    
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  - homes@piefed.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    [deleted]
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- vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  That’s alarmism.
  
  The US held a unique privilege of being the world’s cloud host, but that’s thankfully only a decade or so of bullshit.
  
  And it’s good when trust gets broken in things where trust is wrong.
  
  And sorry, I still see most big things in tech centered around USA. That won’t go away until some jurisdiction becomes safer. Perhaps Brazil stands a chance eventually, LOL.
  
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  - homes@piefed.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    This is exactly the type of thing I’m talking about
    
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- LittleBorat3@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  A lot of lock in effects and stuff but yes how can anyone in their right mind trust again in the next 5-10 years?
  
  It’s like believing Putin will give us a special price on gas next year.
  
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- 1984@lemmy.today ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  You say we, but its literally one person called Trump.
  
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  - FenrirIII@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    American companies have shown that they will happily bend the knee and lick the boots of fascist dictators for money. No one should trust them ever again.
    
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  - Quazatron@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    All his decisions can be reversed by the next president.
    
    And then reversed by the next next president. Do you think this kind of trust violation blows over just like that?
    
    The orange Cheeto threatened to annex a fucking European country. And nobody in the US told him otherwise. The Democrats seem to be too busy eating popcorn and waiting for elections.
    
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  - IronKrill@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Speaking as a canadian, I do believe our leaders will attempt to work with any new administration the US votes in. We are too inter-linked to not try. BUT, I think recent events have shown not just our government, but our general populace that we cannot rely on the USA. I don’t think everything will just “go back to normal” like you hope.
    
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  - teft@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    The loss of soft power can’t be reversed easily and especially not in the next presidency. Why would any sane country think this is a one off for us? Next election we might elect someone crazier for all they know.
    
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  - atopi@piefed.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    one person, along with all the people who voted for him, all the people who got those voters to vote for him, all the people who helped him
    
    Romania knew how to deal with a fascist candidate, the USA didnt
    
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  - nodiratime@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    The US has worked to keep the upper hand w.r.t. tech, espionage and backdoors for centuries. We never saw eye to eye (he), this didn’t start with him.
    
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  - homes@piefed.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    There’s a bit of a problem with that: every single thing Trump has promised has turned out to be a lie. A very obvious lie that has costed this entire country more than we could possibly imagine.
    
    So… How do you square that with what Trump promised before now?
    
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  - WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    who cares about trump here. he’s just the catalyst that started the process we long needed. american big tech has for much longer been parasitic and anticonsumer, and that’s not on trump. every administration before that was fine with it too.
    
    yes you violated, and that’s out of question.
    
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  - mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    2/3 of the voting population didn’t vote against him, btw
    
    doesn’t really seem like “literally one person”
    
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  - LittleBorat3@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    It’s not just Trump, it’s an entire dream team of fascists. The GOP has never distanced themselves from maga, meaning that is the new line.
    
    They did not vote for Harris, not going to vote for 90 year old Sanders or AOC. So strategically (as in long term) the world is not going to trust the US anymore.
    
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  - WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Oh sweet, summer child. It’s an entire cult of pedophiles who also EAT children.
    
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JoMiran@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
The entire point of the Internet’s infrastructure design was for it to be highly distributed. At some point, companies and governments decided to cramntheir entire critical IT infrastructure into monolithic services. In this case it was the US, but it could have been anyone anywhere. No matter who, it was a bad practice and everyone is now realizing why.

This isn’t a “US bad” problem. This is a “don’t be stupid, stupid” issue.

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- supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  This is definitely a specific problem with the US too.
  
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  - JoMiran@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    My point is that had companies and governments no opted to put all their eggs in one basket, it wouldn’t have mattered as much whether the US morphed into a fascist hellscape or not.
    
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- UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  The entire point of the Internet’s infrastructure design was for it to be highly distributed.
  
  The textbook explainer for the existence of the internet was (at least) two fold:
  
  Provide a high speed communication between research universities for conveying large amounts of digital data
  
  Devise a system of redundant communication such that any major node going offline would not cripple the international data infrastructure (specifically with an eye towards major natural disasters or nuclear wars).
  
  But the evolution of the system, from a boutique international data exchange for government enterprises to a business-heavy commercial data system to a retail facing SaaS model degraded both original goals.
  
  Data is no longer supposed to be public and freely traded. It is jealously guarded as a commodity controlled by a handful of privatized tech giants. And due to the continuous, voracious digital harvesting performed by these tech giants, more and more of the information needs to be siloed, encrypted, and otherwise shielded. This clogs the vast redundant network with overlarge choke-points designed to filter out unwanted traffic and shield the identity/data of its users.
  
  This isn’t a “US bad” problem. This is a “don’t be stupid, stupid” issue.
  
  The stupidity is a directly result of how the US private sector repurposed tools layout out by the international public sector. Unregulated solicitations and chronic system intrusions by malicious actors aimed at a naive retail user base, combined with the gluttonous privatization of research data, has inverted the core function of the network.
  
  And because of the Tragedy of the Commons, there is no single actor who can fix the problem through their own virtue. You can’t unfuck this chicken with a Meshnet or through voluntary individualistic commitments to ideological principles unbound from the central rules of network communication.
  
  You need the heavy hand of national scale regulators and industry scale redevelopment to re-engineer how the root layers of the internet function if you want to get back to its original design.
  
  Or… if we’re moving in the direction it seems that we’re moving… we’re going to end up with a wholly proprietary loose confederation of Walled Gardens that look more and more like the Anarcho-Capitalist model of civil government.
  
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  - JoMiran@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    You can’t unfuck this chicken.
    
    100% I am definitely not offering an easy fix, and I hope my comment didn’t read that way. This chicken is…
    Image
    
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- Jason2357@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  The Internet is still distributed, it’s the ownership (and thus also the command and control) that is super inbred. Cloudflare, Google, Aws, they all have hardware distributed in every city.
  
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- Earthman_Jim@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  The internet should have been nationalized under the purview of national postal services globally with private options through telecoms.
  
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  - fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Tbh I think I’m greatful that it is not under the direct purview of this administration…
    
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- Broken@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Correct. And everyone needs to remember the actual problem, not the symptom. Its like leaving one social media platform for another then when it too goes to crap complaining. Oh how can this happen again!?
  
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Darkmoon_AU@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I’m posting my part… Undoing a large part of a SaaS platform I’ve been building, to detangle it from AWS and reimplement for Scale way/UpCloud. This is a significant personal cost, but I can’t live with myself giving dollars to both Bezos AND a fascist regime every month. Account closed.

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- FallenWalnut@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Yeah also did that for my recent site using StaticBuilder and Codeberg. Took longer but well worth supporting smaller businesses.
  
  Btw, if people are passionate about this topic. There is a community and website on !purchasewithpurpose@lemmy.world .
  
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- ramenshaman@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  UpCloud is nice but ever since I started using UpDog I don’t think I can go back.
  
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  - WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Waits patiently for someone to ask what it is
    
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  - BigDiction@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Unfortunately the DevOps world has lately left Ligma based services behind. Good luck finding someone with under 15 years in the industry familiar with it.
    
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- Cherry@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  It starts somewhere, and it’s people leaving one by one. Good onya putting your money where your mouth is.
  
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floofloof@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I ended five subscriptions to US tech services over the weekend, and I’m working steadily down my list.

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- JoMiran@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  So are you moving to other subscriptions, based in another country, that are also at the whim of other corporations?
  
  I think it’s time more people learn how to self-host what’s important to them. At least make sure to keep multiple backups of all of your media.
  
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  - tburkhol@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    The problem isn’t necessarily corporate services - the problem is corporate services with no practical competition. If there’s an actual marketplace, then enshittification is limited, because you can just hop providers when service degrades. If there’s an actual marketplace, then you can hop providers when some government takes control your provider.
    
    Putting fun services behind the wall of ‘you must be this technically competent to participate’ isn’t going to fix the broken system.
    
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  - floofloof@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I know how to self-host, and I do self-host some things, but I can’t always afford the upfront investment (especially with today’s hardware costs) and I don’t have time to keep up with the administration (because I’m a wage slave) so I end up renting. I think there’s a place for paid services just as there’s a place for rented housing, but the problem in both cases is regulatory capture by landlords that mean we get stuck renting forever from exploiters.
    
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lechekaflan@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Obviously because once that country collapses or becomes a pariah state, all goes almost anything the rest of the world relies on, including website hosting services. So, yeah, decentralization is necessary.

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- TotalCourage007@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  If most US websites are garbage this can’t happen soon enough. You can’t even trust basic search anymore thanks to AI bs. People complain about nobody reading articles when they are ad-filled crap usually written by AI, I’d rather spend my time playing video games.
  
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  - samus12345@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Good news, AI is coming to ruin video games as well!
    
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SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I was hoping for that for a long time, so… thanks Donald I guess? What a rube.

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- Earthman_Jim@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  He has made China, Canada and Europe greater.
  
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- Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  He only cares about himself and the money he got from them. The better question is why all those tech billionaires supported him.
  
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  - IronBird@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    because once you’ve reached end-state capitalism, the only realistic way to make sure line continues to go up is either ratfucking public funds or to trigger a crash/credit crunch and by up discounted distressed assets
    
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  - gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    short-term profit i guess. tech companies get unlimited ability to fuck over society’s minds, trump gets some propaganda or sth, idk.
    
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- Decq@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Don’t forget to thank the majority of US voters too. Couldn’t have done it without them.
  
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- fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Honestly he plays the heel too fucking well. Just wish he wasn’t taking so many innocents with him
  
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eagerbargain3@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I’m selfhosting most of my stuff now and did closed 500 accounts, still 960 to review. It take times but I always while closing enter a comment like “lost confidence in USA for the next 50 years thanks to Trump”

I did some architecture and implementation to Azure for a big client, now moved to pure AKS with only OSS software, nest step for thémis to quit US cloud, a lot easier if you use pure kubernetes.

I plan to organize meetup on sovereignty, privacy and self hosting soon too 😇

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- MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  closed 500 accounts, still 960 to review
  
  (⊙_⊙)
  
  How??
  
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  - Event_Horizon@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    1400 fucking accounts! My mind cannot comprehend that number.
    
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  - welfare_wizard@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Gotta have privacy for his bot farm
    
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  - eagerbargain3@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    it is easy to have 1500+ passwords, I’m online since 1996 :-) and use a password manager like keepass, some sites died, others are still online, i have multiple mailbox, twitter, facebook. it goes up really fast!
    
    not counting also all SSO with google, apple, and now my own pocketid selfhosted domain :-)
    
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- Beep@lemmus.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  How does one reach even more than 20 accounts?
  
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  - JohnEdwa@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I have over 200, but most of them are to forums that have been dead for a decade.
    
    The internet used to be quite a different place back in the day, people had separated communities and everything wasn’t just on a handful of massive platforms.
    
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  - Holytimes@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    By using the internet for literally 5 seconds.
    
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- ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I’d always get paranoid that they’d revert the changing your details like reddit did when they undeleted mass-deleted comments before.
  
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Reygle@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Rightly so, US tech is a dumpster fire with 24/7 surveillance.

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- johncandy1812@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  More worried the US is spying on me than China at this point.
  
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HalfSalesman@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Silicon Valley people who wanted Trump are so fucking stupid its absurd.

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- smeenz@lemmy.nz ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Anyone who voted for trump is so fucking stupid it’s absurd.
  
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- dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  As someone who is inside the IT industry, and has been for a while, I have some insight here. Yes, it’s stupidity alright, but a weird focused kind of stupidity like having a blind-spot. Money and ethics, IMO, are the only divisions that explain it.
  
  We like to think of tech as being this rebellious, counter-cultural place. And that tracks when you start talking about “market disruption” and “move fast and break things.” But there’s this problem where that group is actually multiple groups moving in a similar direction. If you look at the decisions people make, there’s a clear tradeoff of ethics in line with freedom and liberty, for cold, hard cash. It took me a long time to reconcile this, and I’m now comfortable concluding that the rebellious spirit here is less “damn the man” and more “fuck you, got mine.” Nevermind that it’s not sustainable and always ends in a death-spiral of everything they built.
  
  Once you surrender your ethics, or figure out that having few/none is seen as an asset, bigger paychecks are on offer. It should come as no surprise that aligning one’s self with authoritarianism and even fascism is a small step from there.
  
  And my personal experience - take with salt - there’s also a lot of people in security that are just VERY pessimistic, if not outright fearful, of their fellow man. A lot of them vote to the right, despite depending on an industry mostly fueled by left-thinking labor. They’re highly skilled, competent, and intelligent people in every other way. Once again, I think the fat paycheck smooths a lot of this over.
  
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moderatecentrist@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I was reading an opinion piece about this sort of thing earlier today, “Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam’s clouds and go EU-native”. It opens by saying:

I’m an eighth-generation American, and let me tell you, I wouldn’t trust my data, secrets, or services to a US company these days for love or money.

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UnspecificGravity@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Even Americans are trying to bail from a lot of this crap, not just for political reasons but because its shit.

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Dead_or_Alive@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Ramp it up!

The worst crime you can commit under capitalism is not participating, not buying, not renting, etc. These tech companies are built on debt that is serviced by profits.

Moving the needle down and impacting their income by even 5% will have a huge impact on a business’s bottom line and in turn a CEO’s income, bonuses and stock options etc.

If you want to make Trump and his regime change then you have to hit the only people he will listen to… his fellow oligarchs.

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- deHaga@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  70% of the US economy is consumer spending. Hit them where it hurts.
  
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canofcam@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
As a QA, I raised the very real risk that should tensions with America escalate, they could effectively cut us off and our business would be kaputt.

What happens if AWS goes down? We use Google. What happens if both go down (or cut us off)? We’re fucked.

The answer to me raising the risk was a, “Haha, yeah, true, we’d be in big trouble…” but there’s no actual appetite to do anything about it. We’re so tied up in AWS that I can’t imagine there ever will be.

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- JohnEdwa@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  You’d think the few global AWS and Cloudflare outages would have worked as a warning, but most people just went from “nah it couldn’t ever happen” to “well, it did happen, but surely it wouldn’t ever last all too long”.
  
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- kaljakoripallomaha@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  That’s the thing, we’re all so tightly involved in those few platforms it’s near impossible to correct the situation in the short term.
  
  In our company we’re also documenting the risks related to US services and it’s pretty bleak. And even if we magically untangled ourselves from all that, we’d still be screwed when all the suppliers, the local infrastructure and literally everything is still on top of those. Honestly I’m not even sure if we’d get through the doors or have electricity in the whole cities we operate in if all went out at once.
  
  The best we can do in short term is to not make it worse and choose wiser with new projects, migrate everything that can be done cheaply and hope for the best until we can get everything lifted off US governed services. Even with the risk recognised, it still doesn’t warrant that magnitude of investment. So we at least plan and document everything as well as we can.
  
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- Sir_Simon_Spamalot@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I feel you dude
  
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BigMacHole@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
But Tech companies gave Trump BILLIONS of Dollars! HOW could he Lose them SO Many Customers?

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bestelbus22@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
It’s all so unnecessary. But at least we finally do something about digital sovereignty in the EU.

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MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I’m doing my part

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rickdg@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I don’t think ICANN

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Bytemeister@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I’d say that individual companies need to make contingency plans for when the US puts up their own great firewall (assuming they haven’t already, since I’m in the US).

I think it would be prudent for nations that have Google/Amazon/Microsoft datacenters in them to create legislation that allows them to nationalize or detach those services from the US. I have no doubt that we will eventually have our own policy that gives us the privilege to snoop on foreign data in foreign datacenters that are running US owned hardware.

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- zbyte64@awful.systems ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  For this to be practical you need to audit and control the code the runs in the data center. I think that was a hangup with some Chinese based services that offered to host in the EU.
  
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webkitten@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I finally moved my personal dev/blog server to Hetzner and today was the first time in a while that the AWS bill was smaller than what it normally was (I did get rid of everything - EC2, S3 - except for domain registrations since I didn’t want to renew ones that just got renewed yet). Obviously I was still just paying for half the month so next month should be even smaller.

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arc99@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Not everywhere can wean itself off, but the “big three” cloud compute companies arent the only shows in town. And of course there is a multitude of free and open source replacements for commercial software with companies willing to provide support.

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MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

Chinese open-source foundation models are already enabling small countries and companies to build their own large language models.

Had to be mentioned of course, in the context of critical technologies.

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AlexLost@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
They had already gone off the deep end. They’ve been enshittifying everything they can get their hands on and monetizing the slightest edge they can to everything as well. Tech bros are just the pharma bro multiplied. People that bring no value to the world make things that they have no knowledge about or input on behind pay walls because they can. It’s for the shareholders brah! Rid the world of nepo CEOs and we’ll all be in a better place. Also “economics” belongs with the other junk science like chiropractors. Some of them are great and some of the science is needed. Most of it is just junk that only makes sense to them and their schemes.

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- Sunflier@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Oh Blockbuster, who art in heaven Hallowed be thy memory Thy storefront come Thy movies return On Earth as it is in Heaven Give us this day our daily movie rentals And forgive us our shortsightedness As we forgive those who exploit us for money And lead us not into micro-transactions But deliver us from enshittification For thine is the Weekend The Power and the Vibes Forever and ever Amen
  
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Mwa@thelemmy.club ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
imagine if this collapses their Economy

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BoJackHorseman@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Remember the internet was invented by the US government, so was the dark web and they didn’t let the common people use it out of the goodness of their heart.

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SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Trump is determined to turn the US into the world’s biggest island.

South America is going to need a real defense pact unless they want to be the victims of the Monroe Doctrine forever.

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vane@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I hope but it’s a so long process that single politician won’t change. There is need for at least decade of consistent actions at this point. It’s just 2 years of this bullshit left and we’re back to people complaining that someone wears skirt instead of pants.

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HugeNerd@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Can I still use stuff from the '60s to about the late '90s?

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melsaskca@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Imagine that. Being indifferent to your customer base and forcing them into areas they don’t want to travel are two main behaviours that will destroy a business and bring it to ruin. Monopolies will always eventually have alternatives when their customers find out that the rain is just piss from above.

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