please just make an android alternative
I want a phone that isn’t a closed ecosystem race to the bottom shit phone
Keep Android Open (Stop Google from limiting APK file usage)
Submitted 2 days ago by Duckling5746@lemmy.today to selfhosted@lemmy.world
Comments
aesthelete@lemmy.world 2 days ago
jabjoe@feddit.uk 2 days ago
There are, but the market is rigged by monopolists. And things like banks increasingly require apps that won’t even run on customer Android ROMs easily.
The regulators are needed here.
lemmysmash@piefed.social 2 days ago
The problem with regulators is that they a) gladly suck corporate dicks, b) gladly opt-in for the same authoritarian methods of population control, and c) gladly ignore common sense altogether.
rtxn@lemmy.world 2 days ago
All of the alternatives eventually run into the same “Will my banking app work on it?” problem. App economy is the one thing that can’t be solved by throwing software engineers at it, and it is what caused the death of Windows Phone.
vrighter@discuss.tchncs.de 2 days ago
my banking app already doesn’t work on my phone, because it doesn’t like termux:x11 and an autoclicker i have installed for an idle game
Shumina@lemmus.org 2 days ago
God I fucking LOVED my windows phone. Nokia body, windows OS, and no one fucked with making viruses because eleventeen people bought one in total.
DataCrime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 days ago
Right. It wasn’t the zune guy, limited adoption, Microserfs killing the platform after 7 years or a general lack of interest, a climate of distrust after 10 years of garbage operating systems with new logos and the same Windows NT internals…
anon_8675309@lemmy.world 2 days ago
They should work in a browser no?
atopi@piefed.blahaj.zone 2 days ago
i hope linux phones succeed
Aceofspades@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
I feel like that won’t be enough. Google is working on locking down the entire internet unless you can pass their reCaptcha with a verified device. See this article related to GrapheneOS and their reCaptcha concerns.
Sites need to stop using reCaptcha or we are all doomed anyway.
realitaetsverlust@piefed.zip 2 days ago
I’m pretty sure that custom roms will remove that 24hr wait period from their binaries. Android is still open source and removing a check isn’t going to be very hard for them.
The tech ecosystem is as open as you can. Use linux. Use SearxNG. Use graphene or other custom roms. There’s options out there, you just have to start adopting them instead of just complaining online about having no choice.
garbage_world@lemmy.world 2 days ago
AOSP is open source, android isn’t
Aceofspades@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
Google reCaptcha enters the chat.
This whole APK dicussion is important, but Google is taking steps to lock down the bloody internet if you aren’t on a verified iOS or Android device. This will be far reaching going way beyond the APK changes.
AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 2 days ago
Not everybody has a choice. I’m currently on grapheneos, but it looks like I may be forced back to android due to national ID requirements.
ripcord@lemmy.world 2 days ago
OK but that is about a 10000x bigger project
DataCrime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 days ago
Rejoice. As an Android owner, you have options of And-nodroid 😉
percent@infosec.pub 2 days ago
I genuinely appreciate the cause, but to sign this, I have to provide PII, agree to their terms of service and privacy policy, and get automatically opted-in to their mailing list that I’ll have to unsubscribe from later.
So to petition against this shitty tech stuff, I have to go through this other shitty tech stuff. It sucks how normalized this all has become.
justme@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 days ago
here it makes at least some sense to verify that each person voted once. the mail list stuff is of course to much and should be optional from the beginning.
percent@infosec.pub 1 day ago
Anyone know if this affects GrapheneOS users? I can install GrapheneOS like 50x faster than it would take to understand what I’m legally binding myself to by signing the petition.
muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works 2 days ago You aren’t going to keep Android open. Respond by shoring up Linux phones.
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 days ago
Not only would that solve this little problem, it would reduce Google’s power and remove one’s data from the claws of US authorities (were the Patriot and Cloud acts let them mass track everybody using a Google product).
Just make sure you chose a non-US Linux phone.
agent_nycto@lemmy.world 2 days ago
I don’t want to buy a new phone
eleitl@lemmy.zip 1 day ago
Google doesn’t give a shit about what you want. It only understands two things: credible legal threats and not giving them your money.
thespcicifcocean@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I don’t want to, but I will if I have to
- muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
Awww
cactus_head@programming.dev 1 day ago
Most of the world can’t afford to buy one specific android and hope not to brick it. Most people can’t afford a google pixel and if they can, are going to risk it.
And what happens when google cuts off third party tools like MicroG. I need WhatsApp for almost everything from talking to family and friends to Work. Most of the world does, and th3 space is true for Facebook.
alfredon996@feddit.it 1 day ago Most people can’t afford a google pixel and if they can, aren’t going to risk it.
And they shouldn’t. By buying Pixels you are supporting Google, the same company that is destroying Android freedom.
Today’s best alternatives are phones that come preloaded with custom ROMs (Brax3, Fairphone, Murena, Iodé, and so on), or if you’re feeling more adventurous, a Linux phone (I have heard good things about FuriLabs FLX1).
- muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
Which is why you stop using Android and use Linux phones instead.
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip 1 day ago
Then you are fucked right? What’s app and Facebook have you.
I too live somewhere this is expected. I said no. I won’t do it. Facebook is easy, because whatever.
WhatsApp is harder even the doctors want to use it. But I won’t. Someone has to start saying no.
trilobite@lemmy.ml 1 day ago
“I need WhatsApp for almost everything from talking to family and friends to Work. Most of the world does, and the same is true for Facebook.”
Whatsapp and Facebook bring convienence for sure, but you can live without them. All those that know me, know i refuse to use Whatapp. Those that want to keep up with me have installed Signal. I admit that for business it can be tricky but we have to start somewhere?
Hueristic_Autistic@lemmy.world 2 days ago
or making a cydia-style open source repository style app store that’s accessible through custom firmware.
- muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
This will not work either. Stop using Android.
Felis_Catus_Domesticus@lemmy.world 1 day ago Mandate that all boot loaders can be unlocked by consumers/device owners!
That single change alone would open the floodgates of development.
Manufacturer locked boot loaders was the single biggest mistake made in the phone world. Now just consider all the work it’ll take to reverse that simple misstep made years ago that nobody gave a single thought to.
l3mming@lemmy.world 2 days ago
The number of times that signing an online petition has prevented the plans of an evil corporation is exactly zero.
coredev@programming.dev 2 days ago
I am not so sure. It creats activity, being passive is worse. We should encourage all type of protests, even petitions.
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 days ago
It dissipates righteous indignation by making sure that people feel the satisfaction and the release of “doing something” (and thus not act any more forcefully) whilst said “something” is the least impactful thing imaginable.
It ultimately makes those who would do more do less instead.
axolotl_cpp@feddit.it@feddit.it 2 days ago There are already some movements, like #Keep Android Open that ask to contact local regulators and law makers, this petition is useful to have a concrete number of people that agree and that can be used officially
karlhungus@lemmy.ca 2 days ago
Companies have reversed unpopular decisions in the past (just saw a thing about Facebook reversing some AI thing). So there may be some possible chance of them reversing this decision. I’m not hopeful but the cost is cheap, and it has a better chance of success than doing nothing
DataCrime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 days ago
Hence the proliferation of spam… It cost nearly nothing to do and has a very limited chance of return… And yet my inbox has still got 10,000 messages in it which I do nothing about.
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip 1 day ago
I agree. Doesn’t do anything it would be better to get people to buy stock in the company and vote on what you want. Get enough people and you can make change.
But that process is also… Gross.
curbstickle@anarchist.nexus 2 days ago
@duckling5746@lemmy.today as a reminder the reason this is related to self-hosting should be obvious, whether in the title or the post text.
For this one, I’ll note that this is key to self-hosting, and I think many know it. Many, myself included, use f-droid or similar 3rd party repos to manage the apps that we use with our self-hosted setup. With this change, many of the current apps we enjoy using will either need to register with Google, or essentially become unused. While there is a way to still do it, it is really messy, and requires an absolutely wild number of steps + 24hr “cooling off period”. Its ridiculous.
Personally, I’m leaving the android ecosystem one way or the other. It may be using an android phone and hotspotting for another device running PMOS or similar, or getting a Moto with Graphene, whatever, but this change is impactful and horrendous.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
let’s get real…google isn’t going to stop. why would they? there’s zero repercussions for their aggressive strategy against their own consumers.
so stop using their products. cut google out, entirely.
gankouskhan@piefed.zip 19 hours ago
I guess at a certain point I just stop using electronics.
deczzz@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
Only an Android alternative will fix this. No amount of proactive work from users will change Google’s mind on this.
lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world 2 days ago
All this effort going towards “saving” green fascism when we should be pouring these efforts into Linux
marxismtomorrow@lemmy.today 2 days ago
That’s great and all but the current linux phone offerings are… not suitable for general public use. The iPad generation will simply not be able to use them in their current state.
NotEasyBeingGreen@slrpnk.net 2 days ago
We were so close to a phone usable by non-enthusiasts with the Nokia N1. The Nokia Linux phones were killed when Nokia hired a former VP it Microsoft to be their CEO. I’m still bitter.
lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Historically the most technically inclined are always the first to a “new” technology. I don’t see why this round should be any different a the ipad generation will come when it’s their time.
Zorque@lemmy.world 2 days ago
There’s diminishing returns, and we have lives outside our phones. Well, most of us. We can put a limited amount of time and energy into this, but pushing Linux requires a great deal of effort and time.
Not saying we shouldn’t also do that, but in the mean time fighting to keep the options we do have less shitty shouldn’t be completely abandoned.
lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world 1 day ago
You’re right. The green fascists will probably change their minds and just be cool about this.
placebo@lemmy.zip 2 days ago
Petitions are useless.
Ooops@feddit.org 2 days ago Petitions are useless
Protests are useless
Governments and corporations conspire to implement surveilance knowing what comes next
<-- we are here
Actual resistence
xSikes@feddit.online 2 days ago
Well put
DandomRude@lemmy.world 2 days ago That is simply wrong. Public pressure can certainly be effective. In any case, it’s definitely better than doing nothing at all.
placebo@lemmy.zip 2 days ago
Public pressure can be effective, but this isn’t public pressure. This is the “click a button if you agree” type of action. Online petitions are extremely ineffective unless they’re part of a broader, stronger campaign. This petition isn’t part of anything in particular.
From what I see, some student started it and there are no goals, and no planned actions. According to change.org, this petition mentioned in a medium.com blog and some tech website most of us have never heard of. That’s not much.
It’s just a place to vent your frustration.
it’s definitely better than doing nothing at all
It makes one feel better because it gives people a false sense of accomplishment.
Look, vote if you want, I just think this is off-topic and isn’t directly relevant to self-hosting. Hence the comment.
curbstickle@anarchist.nexus 2 days ago
Eh, I wouldn’t say useless.
I’d say they only account for user sentiment at best. Which can have an impact, but I’d say incredibly unlikely that there will be an impact on this one.
Not using android as much as possible will have a much higher impact though.
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 days ago
Most online petitions are nothing more than a way to safely (for those targeted and for those amongst the authorities who support them even against the public interest) dissipate the common people’s righteous indignation, by making them feel like they “did something” whilst said something is just about the least impactful thing imaginable.
(Some official ones, for example those mandating parliamentary sessions on the subject if they reach a certain threshold, might not be so, though its unclear as it really depends on the legislation around it allowing politicians to just ignore it at will)
This bullshit will require a lot more than adding your name into a list on some corner of the web in some legal jurisdiction where they’re free to sell your private information.
lechekaflan@lemmy.world 2 days ago Fuck you Pichai.
unitedwithme@lemmy.today 2 days ago
I don’t get it, how tf they gonna stop you on phones that already exist?
A. You can disable any new OS or device updates from Google.
B. You can keep your existing phone on Android 16 or prior (hell, I’m on 12)
C. Use alt OS like Graphene, Lineage, Iodé, /e/OS, CalyxOS (they’re back!!), etc
D. Sign out of Google on your phone, install F-Droid or something from APK package on FF derived browser.
I’m sure on brands new devices with that patch, plus anyone who doesn’t disable the auto updates will be blocked. But no way no how can Google stop us all!! 🖕🖕🏻🖕🏿🖕🏼
i_am_not_a_robot@discuss.tchncs.de 2 days ago
A. It’s not an OS update. It’s part of Google Play Services.
B. I’m pretty sure this applies even on Android 12 because it’s Google Play Services. Years back, Google started moving functionality like this into Google Play Services so your phone could get new features even if you had a bad manufacturer and OS updates were months or even years behind. It was introduced as a feature then.
C. This does work, but some apps (notably banking apps) block non-Google Android, even if there is no legitimate security reason for doing so. This will vary by OS and even phones running the same OS. Official GrapheneOS builds for officially supported devices probably have the best compatibility with apps in terms of the apps not blocking your phone. Maybe there are some rooted phones that patch apps to bypass “integrity” checks. Some features of your phone just will not work, even if you have a third-party OS with official support for your phone (contactless payments). Hopefully the EU gets on this and at least Europeans or people who can trick their phones into thinking they are Europeans will get some of their control back.
D. Most people can’t live without the apps that are available only on Google’s store or that require Google Play Services. That’s most apps. Even if you don’t need those specific apps, you will need to deal with other stuff like setting up Unified Push if you want to receive timely notifications. My parents are not going to set up a Unified Push gateway.
DataCrime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 days ago
This feels like the last stop for this. I swear it got posted 3X a day to every other sub for weeks last year.
Am I ignoring the actual post and just looking at the logo because I own a 7 year old iPhone —also yes.
Bristlecone@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Nah! If they kill it Linux mobile will get better!
shonkyshonky@piefed.blahaj.zone 2 days ago
the year of the Linux smartphone
lambalicious@lemmy.sdf.org 2 days ago
Only if efforts can transfer over, which means devs currently standing on the paid side of Google!Android would have to move over to develop Linux mobile and develop for Linux mobile.
Hueristic_Autistic@lemmy.world 2 days ago
MALE AN OPENSOURCE STORE THROUGH CUSTOM FIRMWARE DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Example: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cydia
Hueristic_Autistic@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Start working on a Cydia-like app for android or graphene
epyon22@sh.itjust.works 2 days ago
Really starting to wonder what they signed with apple to get RCS. Seems to be they sold the soul of android.
ripcord@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Wait so you’re somehow trying to blame THIS on Apple too?
AmbitiousProcess@piefed.social 2 days ago
In what way does this have anything to do with RCS or Apple lmao
quick_snail@feddit.nl
yucandu@lemmy.world 2 days ago
A 24hr waiting period to use a competitor’s product has to be one of the most blatant anti-competitive behaviour in history.
aesthelete@lemmy.world 2 days ago
If only the founding fathers had written the right to bear apps shall not be infringed in an amendment.
Oh well can’t change the ancient text now, just have to be governed by it forever. 🤷 (It’s a shame the ancient wizards that wrote the constitution weren’t clairvoyant.)
Bacano@lemmy.world 2 days ago
If only there were some way to change the ancient text. Some sort of amend-sion. Surely our benevolent leaders would have figured something like that out by now. I guess we’ll just have to keep voting and hoping every four years
DataCrime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 days ago
That’s it gents! Wax up those mustaches, load the cannon with grape, storm the White House! We’ll give those bastards a day of reckoning that won’t soon be forgot.
Also kilts and face paint 🤣
cactus_head@programming.dev 1 day ago
I am not from the US but can’t you interpret the first amendment in a way that would work here?
Code is just information and you could argue that a platform is infringing on private free speech.
archy@lemmy.world 2 days ago
What competitor?
altphoto@lemmy.today 1 day ago
Welcome to McDonald’s credit! You’ll have to wait 24hrs if you want to eat that Whopper you want to buy!
FundMECFS@piefed.zip 1 day ago
I‘m curious I read the petition and didn‘t see mention of „24h waiting“ anywhere could you tell me what you‘re referring to?
The 24h wait period is a part of the so-called “advanced flow” which will become the only way to install apps not verified by google once their new rules go into effect, as described here: https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2026/03/android-developer-verification.html