Framework supporting far-right racists?

Submitted ⁨⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨pegazz@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨technology@lemmy.world⁩

https://community.frame.work/t/framework-supporting-far-right-racists/75986

Title of the (concerning) thread on their community forum, not voluntary clickbait. Came across the thread thanks to a toot by @Khrys@mamot.fr (French speaking)

The gist of the issue raised by OP is that framework sponsors and promotes projects lead by known toxic and racists people (DHH among them).

I agree with the point made by the OP :

The “big tent” argument works fine if everyone plays by some basic civil rules of understanding. Stuff like code of conducts, moderation, anti-racism, surely those things we agree on? A big tent won’t work if you let in people that want to exterminate the others.

I’m disappointed in framework’s answer so far

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Comments

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FartMaster69@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Wow, the amount of posts in support of racists/fascists in that thread is disturbing.

Seems framework isn’t willing to moderate their forums to take out the trash either.

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- warm@kbin.earth ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Yup, says all you need to know.
  
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Slotos@feddit.nl ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
First, Omarchy doesn’t need funding or partners. It’s backed by a Nazi multimillionaire.

Second, the whole apolitical argument is bullshit. Everything is political. Support for a distro that doesn’t really need support by nature of being a child of a Nazi multimillionaire is a support for that Nazi multimillionaire.

“We didn’t support them because of that” means nothing. The support still sends a message. Just like artist loses control over interpretation of their art the moment they release it, people lose control over interpretation of their actions the moment they act. Does it sound fair? Maybe not, but it’s how reality works.

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- SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  So should we all stop using Lemmy because it was made by a Tankie?
  
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  - Luci@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    No we use Lemmy and make fun of the Tankies as revenge
    
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  - Jason2357@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Certainly a tough question. Use Lemmy, okay, but would you send financial contributions to said Tankie? I wouldn’t, and I would judge someone that did. I don’t think anyone can be expected to evaluate the moral virtues of the developer for every technology they use. That’s a supply chain nightmare. But, given the small number of people we directly sponsor, maybe then it’s appropriate to have some standards?
    
    As a non-US citizen, I actually consider /any/ American company that has not moved to be complicit in fascism. At the same time, I havn’t completely stopped patronizing American companies, so I’m not living up to my own standard. I suspect everyone is a little hypocritical.
    
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  - priapus@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Using Lemmy isn’t giving that tankie money.
    
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  - aquovie@lemmy.cafe ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    It’s a significant factor for sure. However, this year Reddit has accelerated its enshittification since the API schism and is far too risky to continue use anyway. The only viable alternative to Lemmy that I see is Mastodon and I never really got into the Twitter format.
    
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  - Slotos@feddit.nl ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    A naive answer:
    
    Replace “Lemmy” with a “Nazi manufactured gun”.
    
    A less naive answer:
    
    Consider various meanings “use” takes in your question and decide accordingly.
    
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  - OctopusNemeses@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    If the far right would stop using Lemmy that would be fantastic news. (inb4 hurr durr echo chamber!!!11!)
    
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  - balance8873@lemmy.myserv.one ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Tankies, afaik, are just delusional. Do they support murder of non-whites?
    
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  - doben@lemmy.wtf ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Not the same thing. Equating the far left and the far right is nonsensical, as horseshoe theory isn’t a real thing. Giving room for such thought only strengthens extreme right positions and is exclusively used to either distract from or downplay far right commentary or elevate liberal/centrist thought as the only acceptable path. It’s interestingly never used by people from the far left themselves.
    
    Your’s either an ignorant take or one with an agenda, which is it?
    
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  - anzo@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Not the same but sure. Go ahead. There’s piefed.social too!
    
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- orygin@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  It hurts to see posts saying “Framework is not political”… Like damn it is, what do you think the mission of framework is?
  “Technology is apolitical” that’s entirely false. A load of decisions about tech are made politically, or at least with a lawyer behind you telling what is and what isn’t legal (these laws that were decided… By politics).
  
  I think tech communities will have a major split in the coming years.
  On one side you have the “apolitical devs” who don’t understand they are making political decisions every damn day. They claim to be centrists but it’s all a facade for neo liberalism.
  On the other side, you have people that understand the reality we live in, that understand every decision they take is gonna affect the human that is using their software. That we are responsible for what happens into the world and that allowing fascists to spread their ideas will end badly.
  
  Staying neutral is giving your ok to fascism and racism. Staying silent is how these ideas and movements take place and is a political choice.
  
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  - BombOmOm@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    If you force every person to pick a team, you may not like the result. gestures at current president
    
    People who are happy to not take a political stance on everything, particularly in their professional life, is good.
    
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Auth@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Phew, for a second I thought Framework had actually done something bad. But its just supporting Hyprland which is somehow considered a far right racist project because an unpaid moderator was transphobic in a discord server. People are really trying to squeeze everything they can from this discord drama that happened years ago.

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- HereIAm@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Or, you know, they are sponsoring a) a white supremacists who believes in the white replacement conspiracy theory who’s in charge of omarchy and b) the project lead of (not just a discord mod) of hyperland. Two awful people that Framework absolutely deserve flack for supporting.
  
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  - meldrik@lemmy.wtf ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    It’s only Hyperland, not the distro.
    
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  - Auth@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Can you tell me exactly what the lead dev of Hyprland did?
    
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- morphballganon@mtgzone.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  There’s this huge movement in online spaces lately to bash any and all positions and opinions by calling them transphobic.
  
  Vote right? Transphobic. Vote left? Transphobic. Abstain from voting? Transphobic. Support a company? Transphobic. Boycott a company? Transphobic. Indifferent about a company? Transphobic.
  
  The simplest explanation is a bunch of right-wingers are trying to make the term meaningless. Anyway, nowadays when I hear someone is transphobic, I make sure to wait for solid evidence before changing my opinions.
  
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  - noxypaws@pawb.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    Vote right? Transphobic.
    
    That is correct.
    
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  - aquovie@lemmy.cafe ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I get your point with the rest but…
    
    Vote right? Transphobic.
    
    Yeah, it kinda is? That’s a core plank of the MAGA platform; it’s practically inseparable. Unless you’re talking non-USA parties but then there’s still a better chance than none it’s a yes.
    
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  - thundermoose@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I don’t think you can advocate for anything even remotely on the “right” in political discussions anymore unless you mean MAGA. That well is so poisoned at this point that everyone is going to assume you’re a MAGA troll wearing a mask the second you voice any right-leaning opinion.
    
    It’s pretty unfortunate. There are plenty of “live and let live” types in the US that identify informally as libertarians and would make great allies.
    
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  - FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    The simplest explanation is a bunch of right-wingers are trying to make the term meaningless.
    
    You had me until this. The term is already meaningless because of the overuse from the left-wingers. No one right of the far-left cares about being called any of the “phobics” or “ists” anymore because they mean nothing now.
    
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Brkdncr@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
That’s really too bad. Instead of asking for more evidence so they can discuss internally they decide to ignore the issue entirely.

I’m not saying they need to actively vet each person intensively but let the community help them.

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- panda_abyss@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Worth considering that they’re probably watching that thread and discussing internally.
  
  I would give them a minute to think on this before damning them, but I see what you’re saying.
  
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  - curbstickle@anarchist.nexus ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Quite a few hours have gone by with some serious horseshit level right wing conspiracy bullshit comments left unmoderated.
    
    That says quite a bit on its own.
    
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  - socialsecurity@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Kinda like lemmy.world did with jordan Lund?
    
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- Sxan@piefed.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  First: ouch. Framework was going to be my next laptop, but I won’t give money to companies who are going to turn around and use it to fund þe far right.
  
  However: þere are requests in þe þread for evidence. It’s not exactly þe first þing þey ask for, but it does pop up. Þe issue is twofold:
  
  When provided evidence, it’s written off and ignored. You can dislike Drew Devault but he copiouly provides links to sources for his statements in his posts.
  
  Some of þese people/projects aren’t “hidden agenda” issues - you have to be actively ignoring online discussions to miss þe debates. Or, Occam’s Razor, you don’t care or - worse - agree wiþ far right. All þree are really concerning for a company.
  
  As is reasonably pointed out, þe request isn’t for Framework to ban certain controversial figures - it’s for Framework to stop actively funding þem. Funding, which comes from sales.
  
  Oh - most of þis comment isn’t directed at your comment, BTW. Just about þe quest for sources. Þe rest is my hot take on þe debate.
  
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  - bobslaede@feddit.dk ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Sorry to interject something here.
    It is really hard to read your text, when you use þ instead of th.
    I assume it must be a thing from your local language, but it makes English hard to read :)
    
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  - Aatube@kbin.melroy.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I've never heard this about DHH or Omarchy
    
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vhstape@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Anyone who read the thread will see that the OP pretty much dropped it after Nirav’s response. Framework is a tiny company without a PR machine for these occasions, and I doubt they knowingly sponsored a project based on the developers’ political ideologies. Let’s all take some deep breaths.

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- rozodru@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  That’s a really piss poor excuse though. It’d be one thing if it was “I like Hyprland, I’ll support that” but then it’s also “I also like Omarchy” annnnd now you’re starting a trend that isn’t a great on to start. THEN you have people in the know who see this trend and being to put two and two together.
  
  Saying that Framework is tiny with no PR is no excuse. It takes all of a few minutes to discover what kind of piece of shit DHH is and what kind of bullshit the devs/mods over on Hyprland spew out. I mean I’ve been a developer for 20+ years now and I knew DHH was a piece of shit years ago. Hell anyone that’s spent any time with Ruby knew he was a piece of shit years ago.
  
  honestly if you had a bit of extra money on you that you wanted to donate to a charity you would utilize your common sense and research said charity before donating money right? I would hope so. I hope a lot of people would. That’s what I do. I’m not going to throw money at some random charity then I later find out uses kittens as toilet paper.
  
  So Framework coming out and saying “yeah we like to support open source projects, sure the ones we support are lead by racist homo/transphobes and a guy that thought Hitler had some neat ideas, no we’re not going to discuss it” is not a great look.
  
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  - FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Some people don’t base everything they do on people’s opinions. Crazy, I know.
    
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- SEND_BUTTPLUG_PICS@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  But I already have my pitchfork at the ready!
  
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- SorteKanin@feddit.dk ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  
  I doubt they knowingly sponsored a project based on the developers’ political ideologies
  
  But now they should know right? But the response makes it clear they don’t really care. They want to include everyone in the “big tent”, which clearly runs afoul of the paradox of tolerance. I am not a fan of their response.
  
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- balance8873@lemmy.myserv.one ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Their response was “we’re ok with supporting white nationalists”. It doesn’t take a complex pr machine to accept that white nationalists are bad people.
  
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rowdy@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
That thread was a painful read. Framework laptop is off the wishlist.

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- morrowind@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I don’t know who you’re going to find that’s better, all these big companies are inevitably supporting way more problematic individuals
  
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  - pika@lemmy.today ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Exactly. As bad as we might think Framework is because of all this, what’s a more ethical company to buy a laptop from?
    
    Regardless, it’s still important to call out problematic behavior when we see it.
    
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- oxysis@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  They have been off my wishlist purely because of the cost, even DYI with missing pieces is $550. That’s more than my laptop was new so pass.
  
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  - TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    A product like the Framework laptops is inevitably going to be more costly.
    
    Not only do they not have the scale of Dell, HP, Apple, etc, but they also need to use modular components, factor upgradability into the design, etc.
    
    Even for the DIY ones, someone has to hand assemble it fully, test it, then strip it down again. That’s additional cost and process complexity.
    
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  - Damage@feddit.it ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I bought one because I’m tired of having to scour ebay or AliExpress for replacement parts for my laptops.
    
    I think people too often try to spend the minimum possible amount of money for a certain set of specs and then forget about build quality, support and so on.
    
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chronicledmonocle@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
See…when it comes to open source, it’s a little different for me:

I don’t support or condone any of these pricks, but I can mentally divorce, somewhat, the open source code contributions from the person, because their contributions are useful. If this was a closed source solution, it’d be different, because the code wouldn’t be released into the community. There are a lot of weird, closet-dwelling shut ins that fall into the extremist margins.

A lot of early medical knowledge, for example, was acquired from…less than morally clear ways. So do you just take that information and throw it away on principal? Does that make the death and pain of those people for nothing? Or do you use it and don’t condone the person or their actions? This is a difficult moral choice to make that is heavily debated by philosophy, media, etc. There are entire SciFi TV episodes, movies, and books written about just such a debate.

That said, I don’t know the usefulness of Hyprland. I’ve never used it and I feel like it’s pretty niche, so I’m surprised Framework aren’t telling this person to fuck off.

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- aesthelete@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  To put it in terms of your analogy, it’s one thing to use Mengele’s research after he’s been stopped. It’s another entirely to give his research funding when he’s actively running the program.
  
  One is making use of knowledge that comes out of terrible things, the other is complicit behavior that borders on active encouragement or collaboration.
  
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  - chronicledmonocle@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    That is fair. My example was extreme, though. These people are just assholes. Do you throw away the code of an asshole because they’re an asshole?
    
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  - Damage@feddit.it ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Yeah sure so you’ve destroyed your car, stopped buying fuel, gave up sigarettes, stopped buying stuff from Amazon, gave up the supermarket, single use plastics, gave up Windows and let’s be honest, any other computer manufacturer aside from super niche ones? Because I guarantee you that the money you spend in that stuff is magnitudes more damaging than whatever tiny bit of a framework computer’s value is going towards these two developers, let alone the fraction that they may actually invest in nefarious deeds.
    
    People need to learn to pick their battles.
    
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- dylanmorgan@slrpnk.net ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  The issue with that is the toxic/racist/homophobic/transphobic people will by their behavior push out people who would otherwise contribute to development of projects. To have a big tent you can’t tacitly accept bigotry.
  
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- vapeloki@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I agree. Just as a little reminder. Methadone was initially invented by literal Nazis. It was designed to Combat Opium shortage in field hospitals.
  
  Nobody would say: hey, let us not use this extremely helpful drug because Nazis contributed a lot to it.
  
  On the other side: I would never give a Nazi company money to produce it. Two different scenarios
  
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- rozodru@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  It’d be one thing if the projects being supported were good and lead by devs with questionable ideals but I’m more upset that Framework decided to support a couple of really shitty projects lead by shitty people. I mean one dudes dotfiles and anothers very buggy WM that you can pay $5 to get “premium” for it? Cool Framework, that doesn’t give me a whole lot of confidence in what YOU produce now.
  
  I mean hell I got some killer dotfiles for Arch using River and Sway, where’s my money?
  
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  - BombOmOm@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    I’m more upset that Framework decided to support a couple of really shitty projects
    
    The thread being centered around this would be 100% more productive than what it has devolved into. Instead people are swearing off the most notable computer company that is fervently pushing for Right to Repair and supporting open source projects.
    
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  - chronicledmonocle@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    That’s fair and I knew someone would make this argument. My example was a bit of an extreme, though. These people are assholes spreading asshole-ry. Not murderers.
    
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- NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I would recommend actually talking with (I forget the fancy term) medical philosophers.
  
  Yes, a LOT of modern medicine was created on the backs of torture and vile human experimentation. But a shockingly small amount of the data collected by Nazis et al were actually useful because so much of it was compromised by virtue of the “control” in those experiments generally being a torture victim who was in five other experiments in the past month. And a lot of said innovations boil down to “We all kind of suspected it but couldn’t think of an ethical way to confirm it”
  
  But the key thing to understand: There is a big difference between “Okay… that was REALLY fucking evil but Unit 731 created a lot of data we can sift through and it already exists…” and “Okay, hear me out. We COULD send in Seal Team Eight… or we could wait a few weeks to see if they make a better smallpox first”
  
  And that is the thing here. I am 100% for taking advantage of what has already been done in the world of software development… although rewrites are a thing for a reason. But I am firmly opposed to funding or supporting ongoing work by those chuds. They should be ostracized and vilified at every turn.
  
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  - prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    “Ethicist” maybe?
    
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- Evil_Shrubbery@thelemmy.club ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Also megacorps doing shit like this (sponsoring) vs tiny companies focused on foss (without mega PR, mass propaganda, takeover budgets, etc) is very much not the same thing.
  
  If Google was a tiny corp barely getting by I would morally consider it a lesser transgression using their services (lesser bcs I would still be helping/supporting a business practice that at some future date leads to current Google fuckeries).
  
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- KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I don’t even know what the fuck Hyprland is because I am firmly in the Ubuntu ecosystem
  
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whoisearth@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
The elephant in the room more people need to pay attention to that many of us who work in IT are painfully intimate with.

Many IT people are hardcore libertarians who believe in some warped idea that they are where they are through their intelligence and hardwork while completely ignoring many of them come from backgrounds that afforded them the opportunities they are taking advantage of.

100% many of them are sexist, racist and bigoted pieces of shit that hide it at work because they’re adept at masking the fact that a lot of them are borderline autistic at worst and neurodivergent at best.

This is also why you see such a deep investment in idiocy like AI, Bitcoin and other paradigm shifts. They all have their heads up their asses and feel they’re better than everyone else.

Couple all this with the demographic being primarily white males.

Fuck talk to any woman who works in IT. It’s changing yes, but Jesus Christ it’s a cesspool in many ways.

Source: 25+ years in IT

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- bss03@infosec.pub ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  
  Many IT people are hardcore libertarians who believe in some warped idea that they are where they are through their intelligence and hardwork while completely ignoring many of them come from backgrounds that afforded them the opportunities they are taking advantage of.
  
  I was this person. It is possible to reform, but it takes genuine curiosity and willingness to be wrong. Neither of those is rewarded by the IT environment of the last 30 years.
  
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- bytesonbike@discuss.online ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  At my company, most of the IT team are hardcore Trump supporters who do not see a problem with working with LGBTQIA people and being polite to their face, while also wanting them to have less rights.
  
  Yes, they are all white men. And yes, all of them will tell you how hard they worked to get there, completely oblivious of how much an advantage they got to get there.
  
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- synae@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  White dude in software here to echo the same sentiment. So many of my colleagues have never experienced any hardship of their own or viewpoints of people with different experiences. They don’t think about how their privilege has helped them get where they are, and how their company culture often subtly (at best!) reinforces their worldview and massages their egos. They’ve never tried to think critically about their “meritocracy” or “libertarian” beliefs and how many people are unjustly excluded from the lifestyle they enjoy.
  
  20 years in software development for me.
  
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  - Sxan@piefed.zip ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    By now, I’m feeling extremely fortunate.
    
    I’ve been career software engineering since 1995; I gave in and went management in 2014.
    
    I’ve maybe not known the politics of most people I’ve worked with, but the ones I have have been quite decent people. I’m wondering if location is a factor - I got stuck on the East Coast for most of my career. I hated it - it was so opressingly corporate - but it was also rigorously egalitarian.
    
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kepix@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
i dont think framework is big enough to factcheck every linux maniac

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- StopSpazzing@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  100% this. They support many many different open source project and I read people are bitching when they havent had mich time to even respond?
  
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- balance8873@lemmy.myserv.one ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Yeah I don’t think you get how this works. They had time to research the tool they are recommending but literally nothing about the backers or community? Framework will absolutely have a legal team whose job would include vetting these orgs.
  
  But let’s say you’re right (you aren’t): their response was “we are chill with terrible people in our space, we have a big tent”. Not “you’re right, we didn’t do research on these guys thanks for bringing it to our attention we’ll do some research”. If they said that, this wouldn’t be a thing. Instead, they said affirmatively “we don’t care if they are white nationalists, we want to include white nationalists in our tent”.
  
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- lena@gregtech.eu ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I hope they at least cut their funding now that they know about DHH’s behaviour
  
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Alphane_Moon@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Hyperland sounds more like edgelords.

The DHH fellow is a full on Nazi-style racist.

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- warm@kbin.earth ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Nah the hyprland guys are fucking nutjobs, not just edgy kids.
  
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- tabular@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Hyprland*
  
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- Damage@feddit.it ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I mean, it’s a tiling wm, of course they’re edgelords
  
  whyareyoubooingme.jpg
  
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astro_ray@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

What? I am relatively new to knowing and talking with DHH, but I have not seen anything he has said that would lend credence to what you are saying here. Furthermore these are heavy accusations. I see zero shred of evidence on the internet or revolving around Omarchy. I haven’t see a single negative thing coming out of my discourse around Omarchy. The focus is software excellence, and it is awesome.

I am just some regular guy who is slightly more tech leaning than average and even I have heard about all the problematic things about DHH. Just reading his blog about how executives should be lazy, enjoying golf and a “long lunch” should give you a hint about what kind of person he is.

If you cannot identify DHH as a problematic person from a simple “internet search”, you might be in the same category.

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- tyler@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Those things are a far cry from being a nazi. Just because you see a problem with DHH doesn’t mean the majority do.
  
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calliope@retrolemmy.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
As a former long-time Ruby developer who has also used Rails, I’ve always known DHH was a total douchebag.

It’s nice to know he’s being super obvious about it now. He’s always been insufferable.

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- Bahnd@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  How is this different from the Lemmy devs, who are known to be pretty political? I was under the impression we were mostly fine seperating the program from the programmer, or is this situation different?
  
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xyguy@startrek.website ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I would say most of the customers of Framework are the kinds of people who espouse the kind of antifascist ideology that that guy that started the thread does.

I don’t think that the fascist sympathizer circle and the “willing to pay more money for an ethical laptop that isn’t beholden to a big corporation for repair” circles have much overlap.

This is easy, “Framework doesn’t support fascism or racism in any form. We support open source software and right to repair. Due to concerns with ideology in some of the projects we sponsor we are reviewing the projects we sponsor to make sure that they align with our values as a company.”

The fact that they aren’t willing to say so says plenty.

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Aetherion@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Holy shit, this thread makes me throw up.

Guess we will go back to classic used hardware?

And if someone here has a comprehensive guide at hand to completely decouple from big tech to sustainable human tech I would be very pleased (if not no problem I’m still planning to create a good working guide myself).

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Hack3900@lemy.lol ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I spent a lot of time recommending Framework, I got family to buy a laptop. Their hardware is fundamentally a political statement that I respuct. Seeing them use a “no politics” fallacy hurts

:/

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AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
i do want to point out how hard it is to even find out about the views of these people, if you just look up the names of the projects and aren’t specifically looking for this information there’s no way you’ll find anything about it

even looking up the name of David Heinemeier Hansson, the more vocally bad of these, i had to go to the 5th link to find anything even vaguely mentioning his views

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TheObviousSolution@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Did the author bother contacting them first before treating them like utter garbage and trying to rile up a public lynch mob? Just because something is well known to you doesn’t make it well known to everyone. If there are no alternatives with the feature set you are looking for, then sometimes you even have to overlook questionable authors, sort of like Lemmy. If it’s open source and has a license that allows forks, it doesn’t matter that much.

You use open source because of functionality. It didn’t used to be too long ago when people bothered to prove other people wrong through example instead of persecution. If you never convince people they are wrong, you just favor them creating and being in as much of an echo chamber as yourself.

We support open source software (and hardware), and partner with developers and maintainers across the ecosystem. We deliberately create a big tent, because we want open source software to win. We don’t partner based on individuals’ or organizations’ beliefs, values, or political stances outside of their alignment with us on increasing the adoption of open source software.

Even just from looking at it from a practical standpoint, it would sink just about any company if they have to go full FBI investigation for every single member. If you agree with OP so much, then why do you not agree with OP?

perhaps it is indeed best to let it rest for now. i’ll certainly sleep on it now! :slight_smile:

Some people want to watch the world burn bridges.

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nroth@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Projects are not their authors. Please give the politics a rest. I’ve had enough of politics lately.

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balance8873@lemmy.myserv.one ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Wow framework sells a lot of computers to real fascist psychos. That thread is rough. Comment about ICE only arresting criminals would be hilarious if it weren’t so pathetic.

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Hadriscus@jlai.lu ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Just saw this on Mastodon. They locked the thread in question… that’s very disheartening. Terrible really. These people are either ignorant or complicit. Perhaps both. In any case, let’s spread the word and drive them out of business.

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CaptainBasculin@lemmy.bascul.in ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Just for donating to hyprland? An absolutely overkill reaction.

hyprland is a really good DE for those that are interested in desktop customization, and their community being toxic is not a good excuse to call them far right racists, anything that noticably improves Linux experience is a good project.

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ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Yikes. I loved that framework trailblazed repairable laptops, but those responses are pretty fucking damning.

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alphabethunter@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
This is the problem with the “we’re not talking about politics in here” approach. A lot of smaller companies, entities, “influencers”… will attempt to become apolitical, a ploy to market to as many people as possible, but it’s ill advised. You have to make your beliefs actually clear from the start. And after a certain size, you must avoid becoming too personal about things. Get a PR specialist if you can, even. It’ll save a lot of headache to kearn you can’t please everybody, and there’ll always be someone dissatisfied with you, so you better choose early who they’ll be.

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warm@kbin.earth ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Ugh I hate reading threads like that, the amount of delusion, stupidity and ignoranxe really gives me no hope for humanity.

Just vile people, fuck off facsists.

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rozodru@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I don’t use Hyprland (honestly it’s still a buggy mess and the $5 a month for “hyprland premium” is a joke), I won’t ever use Omarchy (I already know how to install Arch), and I guess I just won’t use Framework anymore. That’s it.

If other people want to use that crap and support it? sure, have at it. I won’t lose sleep over it. I would much rather people stop hailing these things as the greatest achievements in FOSS and Linux when they’re clearly not. I mean christ on a cracker people are treating Omarchy like it’s the second coming and it’s just an Arch installer with hyprland, a bunch of cherry picked applications and a fancy TUI styler. that’s it.

Oh wait, sorry, Omarchy also has a hyrpland keybind set to open X/Twitter for you….groundbreaking.

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kate@lemmy.uhhoh.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
This is unfortunate for sure. I want to give them a few days to respond for real, it’s always possible they just didn’t know about the issues here, but even in that thread they’re brushing it off as though it doesn’t matter. I’m not really sure what they get out of donating to these projects other than potential PR, anyway.

On a personal level I’ve recommended their laptops to people who have later bought them, and I was even looking at buying one myself to replace my aging macbook, but I don’t think I can do that anymore while this is unaddressed.

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reddit_sux@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
If DHH’s wet dream comes true Nirav would be back in India no matter how much money he gives him.

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ghosthacked@lemmy.wtf ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I have a fw13 and was waiting to get a fw12. I don’t think I can continue to support fw if they’re fine with conducting business with far right extremists.

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piyuv@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Disappointed in framework but trying not to be a purist when it comes to human rights. Right to repair is a human right too and framework is doing good work on that front. I think they’ll realize their mistakes as the figures they let into their “big tent” keep showing their true colors.

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shaytan@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Framework can be supporting the project and not the ideology

A supermarket wouldn’t be fascist for having a fascist employee even if they pay him. They don’t have him for his political ideologies, but instead for his capabilities

And here, they are donating for a project by DHH, because they like the project

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