[META] Are paid for closer source advertising appropriate?

⁨315⁩ ⁨likes⁩

Submitted ⁨⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨breadsmasher@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨selfhosted@lemmy.world⁩

A number of brand new accounts have popped up shilling their paid for applications.

Is this within the rules? Is the community happy with this? Could mods clarify this in the rules?

Either allowing advertising, or banning it entirely.

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Comments

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Shadow@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I think new accounts that show up to shil their app should be banned. They’re not actively participating in the community, it’s just spam. There’s been a huge uptick recently.

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- irmadlad@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  
  I think new accounts that show up to shil their app should be banned.
  
  What if the new account user, who is working on a product that integrates with what the vast majority of selfhosters run, just found Lemmy? Lemmy selfhosted doesn’t exactly share the same popularity as say Reddit. It doesn’t just roll off the tongue. I had to vigorously try to find Lemmy before I got here.
  
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  - Twinklebreeze@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    If all they have to contribute is self promotion I think they should be banned.
    
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  - Shadow@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    They should hang out a while first and not have only posts promoting their software, and not only have comments in those threads.
    
    The lemmy attitude is very anti commercialization, and they don’t know any better. That doesn’t mean we should allow it.
    
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  - eleijeep@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    “Lurk for a while before posting,” has been a standard rule of netiquette for at least the 30 years that I’ve been using the ’net.
    
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  - teawrecks@sopuli.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    That sounds like you’re describing someone who is only making a lemmy account because they see potential customers they want to advertise to.
    
    That’s the exact reason I don’t want someone to make a lemmy account.
    
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  - natanael@slrpnk.net@slrpnk.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    You can start with timed bans, so they get the point
    
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  - breadsmasher@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    are they charging? is it open source?
    
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  - moonpiedumplings@programming.dev ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    What if the new account user, who is working on a product that integrates with what the vast majority of selfhosters run, just found Lemmy?
    
    This happens on Reddit, and basically my problem is that these users often don’t have enough experience to be able to actually give solutions. Reddit is full of people who think they have a good solution, dealing with comments of people explaining that what they are struggling with is actually a solved problem (or a skill issue). No one cares about your vibecoded slop that implements 1% of the features of an existing open source solution (they used to not be vibecoded but we still didn’t care). It being paid and proprietary is just even more annoying.
    
    My idea of requirement to engage with the community is also about being able to ensure that the users are technically competent. If they are experienced, it will show up in the discussions we can see in the review. If they lurk, then they can take a look at what is being used, and what problems actually exist, instead of making assumptions.
    
    If they really believe their product is so good, they can spend a few weeks helping people with Linux questions and sharing their (non product related) insightful thoughts on Lemmy so I don’t dismiss them instantly when they finally advertise it.
    
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- curbstickle@anarchist.nexus ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  This has gotten a ton of votes, and I’m in agreement that new accounts that have only posted about their paid app should be considered spam, and I would say a timed ban (maybe a week?) would be a good start.
  
  Now what about open source vs paid? Devs who made something may just think “oh I should share it on selfhosted!” On their freshly made fediverse account. Does open source get the same treatment? I’d lean toward no, but some of these projects have a paid component as well - paid hosting, or a license upgrade, or whatever.
  
  I think its fine that they want to make some money, and I’m personally more positive toward a hosted option than a paywall, but its a finer point to navigate than just “paid vs open”.
  
  That said, I do see a problem with comments on some posts as well - a reply with “spam” and no report is not helpful. The comment itself isnt helpful. A downvote and report is.
  
  So I think a clear and concise set of rules would be helpful, and maybe with a separate list for fully open source and no paid component, open with a paid component, and a fully closed (paid or not, because we all know where the profit comes from in this scenario).
  
  I’d personally lean toward something like an account xx days old to be able to self-promote, and tags for each type of post.
  
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  - Shadow@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Personally I’m fine with paid apps here, lots of people use tailscale for example. I think the larger issue is the drive-by spamming without contributing outside of their own promotion thread.
    
    I like the comment elsewhere in this thread referencing a subreddit that requires X comments over Y days in the community first.
    
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  - Fmstrat@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    N of one, but:
    
    Paid closed source = Advertisement, ban.
    
    FOSS without free self hosting = Advertisement, ban.
    
    FOSS with self-hosting but some self-hosted features are paid = Still an advertisement, but MAYBE acceptable if we are being lenient. I don’t like it, personally.
    
    FOSS with free self-hosting and paid hosted services = Good for them, play on.
    
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Mordikan@kbin.earth ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
At it's heart, this is what @selfhosted is meant for:

A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don't control.

I would say that members talking about paid/closed products they use (ex. "I connect to this via Tailscale" or "I use company ABC for hosted VPS") to accomplish something is fine, but marketing or job boarding (ex. "Looking for QA on my commercial product") is not.

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mereo@piefed.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I self-host because I want to be in control of my data and own it. Closed software is the antithesis of that. They’re just bots trying to advertise their software.

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- irmadlad@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  
  I want to be in control of my data and own it. Closed software is the antithesis of that
  
  So, please do share how your homelab has indexed the entire global internet, so you can use your 100% selfhosted, 100% open source search engine? I’m very interested. I’ve always wanted to run a search engine that is not tied to someone else’s.
  
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  - speculate7383@lemmy.today ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    That’s a petty response to a legitimate statement of what someone wants (which aligns with this group’s stated focus), where they aren’t claiming what they have done
    
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  - mereo@piefed.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    *Sigh*… As always, life must be balanced. You can’t go from one extreme to the other. It’s a spectrum. I self-host what I deem important in order to keep it under my control and not on a capitalist platform.
    
    It’s an adventure, each month, you learn more and realize that you can host more services yourself.
    
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EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
This is the selfhosted community. Not the Free, Open Source community.

I think you can infer the rules from the name here. The stuff you post must be related to software you can host on your own hardware. It need not be free, nor open source.

Now your point about spam from brand new accounts that are literally just ads on the other hand is valid.

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crunchy@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I don’t want this community, or any community on Lemmy for that matter, to become a lucrative platform for advertisers. If someone wants to promote their own product that they made, they should have some credibility as a real person beforehand. Not a brand-new account trying to sell a subscription to an app that’s essentially still in open beta.

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AmbiguousProps@lemmy.today ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
No. They should not be allowed, especially the closed source, non-FOSS ones. It’d be one thing to have a FOSS application that has a premium option (such as Frigate), but if it’s closed source, they shouldn’t be in the self hosting community.

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- irmadlad@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Even if you change the ROM in your Android phone, guess what? The ROM still relies on closed-source vendor blobs from the manufacturer that come with the stock firmware and most often are required to make your ROM do what it do. I would say that the vast majority of people screaming about closed source and how they own their own data, yadda yadda, yadda, when it gets right down to the brass tacks, somewhere, they rely on something that is not FOSS. It’s a rather duplicitous diatribe.
  
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  - speculate7383@lemmy.today ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Huh?
    
    So, if we have the choice of something 90% open and 10% closed, versus 100% closed, you’re saying the first option is invalid to even desire, because it isn’t 100% open.
    
    Wow. Just, wow.
    
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  - AmbiguousProps@lemmy.today ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    This logic is not great. I’d rather have something mostly open source (where I can check what blobs it’s actually using) rather than something completely closed where I have no idea what’s under the hood. It’s not about concessions, it’s about being able to tell what the hell software is actually doing.
    
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placebo@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I’m here for genuine interactions with other people. So I’m not a fan of ads from brand new accounts that will never engage with the community or enrich it.

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chisel@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Advertised? I’d vote no. Discussed? I’m all for it.

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- Static_Rocket@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Eh, that may just promote a lot of “What are your opinions about x” posts where the first comment is the ad. Suppose it’s an open call to list alternatives though.
  
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  - artyom@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Should be a mod decision, but posters should be community participants/contributors.
    
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moonpiedumplings@programming.dev ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
On reddit, there is a community called r/progressionfantasy, which is about a specific type of fantasy fiction. They have a rule that self promotional posts (for paid books) must be preceeded by 10 comments, and actual engagement with the community.

This is a reasonable compromise, in my opinion. Known community member who has been answering questions and contributiting to discussions?

I would be okay if they dropped a paid product of good quality and with a reasonable business model (please no vibecoded slop).

But drive by ProductNameAccount users who have never posted on lemmy before a bunch of self promotional posts? Yeah ban that shit.

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- zutto@lemmy.fedi.zutto.fi ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  With the advent of AI bots trying to flood into Lemmy communities, I don’t really see this as a viable option on the long run.
  
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  - moonpiedumplings@programming.dev ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    It is possible to detect and moderate them, as long as your mods haven’t been disappeared and replaced by people who’s job is to accept bribes. And also when we can actually see people’s history, since reddit now has an option to hide your history from others because of course.
    
    My usual method is to focus on content, rather than writing style. The AI bots can write a lot, or be brief, or whatever, but they don’t actually contribute to the discussion. They just kinda paraphrase and restate what has been said, or when trying to sell a product they disagree and go “Are you sure this isn’t an problem?” to everybody in the thread telling them that it’s actually a skill issue.
    
    Sometimes they’ll be a little better, but it’s often surface level stuff that can be found at the top of a google search of keywords.
    
    This also makes it possible to tell the difference between ESL speakers who are using AI to clean up their writing style, and true bots. Since the ESL speakers will actually have something to say, but bots won’t.
    
    And then: xkcd.com/810/
    
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curbstickle@anarchist.nexus ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
LOVE the discussion folks, and @breadsmasher@lemmy.world you beat me to it, this has been bothering me all week.

I would love to see a consensus come out of this, maybe do a vote on wording/requirements? Idk, still working on figuring out the best approach.

Just a thanks for exactly the meta threads I hoped for.

As I’m doing things right now, closed source, paid, and the only thing posted is getting removed as spam. Unfortunately a common time seems to be about 7am GMT (side note - folks who are on around that time and can help with modding then, please reach out) and I’m not on for a good few hours at a minimum.

That said, I always read and check, sometimes deferring to read again and check the profile when I have more time later.

What I’m looking for at the moment is:

Are people asking questions to see if this is crap being peddled for a profit? Is OP answering? (And thanks again to the folks who do follow up with great questions that dig into this right away)

Does it read like a post from a person?

How old is the account?

How many other posts have they made? Where and what about?

That kind of stuff. Sometimes its super easy to spot (3 posts, same title, price and it being cloud only, etc), sometimes its not and takes more looking.

I think paid products can have a place here, despite them not being my kind of thing, but more as a discussion.

So if there is some degree of consensus on a good rule, I would suggest making a post about it so we can finalize, like I did for the rule 3 updates.

And if anyone has an idea on a useful option for a voting style solution for things like this, I’d love for a DM so I can check it out.
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- ken@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I would like some clarity on general self-promotion of open source projects as well. As in, points 1-4 don’t apply and 5 depends on your definition of “advertisement”.
  
  I’m bringing this up because I (once) previously attempted to share a project^1^ I maintain on here. I did take some effort to include some context and discussion points for selfhosters in order to make it more tailored and stay safe on Rule 3. It was quickly removed by mod. I tried reaching out to one of the mods to try to understand what was wrong. They were friendly and said they weren’t involved and would forward to the relevant people and since then I haven’t heard back.
  
  ^1^: FLOSS, no commercial or otherwise proprietary parts or links, 100% human
  
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  - curbstickle@anarchist.nexus ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I’ve only more recently taken over here as a result of the previous mod being overzealous on Rule 3, I commented on a better approach, they rage quit and made me and another person mod. There were quite a few clearly relevant projects that got removed, and obviously yours fit in that territory. You van see the currently stickied post about rule 3 here in the community for reference.
    
    So I agree that clarification needs to happen. Right now I’m applying the rules in the lightest way possible, trying to remove only spam right now because the rules are extremely generic and subjective.
    
    My only ‘thing’ would be that I don’t consider this my community to hand down rules from on high, which is why I have encouraged people to make posts like this one so there can be community consensus.
    
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- breadsmasher@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Not sure this actually addresses the issue.
  
  Ban brand new accounts from posting paid for closed source products where the clear goal is to make money
  
  Allow any posts for open source, free solutions where the developer is open and honest about their project
  
  Require an AI SLOP disclosure.
  
  The rules need to be clarified. Again, whats stopping any big corporations shilling their garbage here?
  
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  - skisnow@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    Require an AI SLOP disclosure.
    
    No advertising bot is going to admit to it. The only people for whom failure to jump this hoop will be a blocker, are legit posters.
    
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  - curbstickle@anarchist.nexus ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Nothing before I started moderating, and as of now nothing either.
    
    Again, I’m sharing what I’m doing to check and see if its blatant spam and nothing more. Anything else would mean a rule change, which is always open for discussion from the community, as I’ve mentioned.
    
    I’ll point out #2 has also resulted in numerous reports, including for #3.
    
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- irmadlad@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  How about a clarification to what Rule 1 actually means. If we are going to abide by the downvote system, and if we are to be cival, supportive, and not be insulting, and if we are all indeed adults, then rule 1should kick in somewhere I would assume.
  
  OP: Here’s my superduper fantasmgorical app. It’s so good it’ll make your dick hard.
  
  Potential User: Is it opensource? Is it vibe coded? is it a paid for product?
  
  OP: Yeah or no or explanation
  
  Potential User: Ok, that’s not my bag really, Thanks anyways.
  
  Then exit the thread, and downvote if you must, but do it like a civil adult. What good does it do to denigrate and outright trounce another user if you just so happen to not agree with their product or how they do something? Hive mind leads to gatekeeping, and gatekeeping leads to reddit.
  
  If it’s AI, it’s 2026 and AI isn’t going away. It is a safe assumption that at some point in the production chain, AI was used in some form or fashion. But it doesn’t give me clearance to rail on the OP and be downright insulting. Just exit the thread and hit the button. No need for the hatred and anger. Let the mod be the mod if need be. How much more civil and adult can that get? There have been a few outright adverts for paid for services. But again, those should fall under the downvote system and not the bullying system.
  
  Does it read like a post from a person?
  
  I think sometimes we forget that others do not natively speak the English language and use AI to help them communicate coherently much like Americans think that there is only America. Gosh I know I would would if I were addressing say a Korean forum.
  
  How old is the account?
  
  If you want to go that route then say so in the sidebar. Something to the effect of new users must participate in threads before unveiling their project. I’ve been to many forum that had that encoded into the forum itself where you had to participate in x number of posts before you could start your own post.
  
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  - curbstickle@anarchist.nexus ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Thats not a single item list but a combo, as you know I’ve only recently taken over here, and as I’ve repeatedly said all rules are subject to change based on community input. Its only been about 2 weeks now (and a particularly busy week for me this past one) so I haven’t posted another yet as I couldn’t give it appropriate attention last week.
    
    So let’s clarify the rules then, I’m all for it.
    
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rockSlayer@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Ban advertising!

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- artyom@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Advertising can be obvious sometimes. Other times, it’s more subtle.
  
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x3lz@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Ban all advertising for proprietary software.

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- TheHound@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Producing software is not free. Serious projects need to be able to commercialize, it can’t always be for passion and vibes. But it can be done tastefully, there is a difference between shilling slop and monetizing a serious project.
  
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  - i_love_FFT@jlai.lu ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Developing hardware also is not free. I still don’t want to see ads for the latest cooling system.
    
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  - utopiah@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    That’s not what they said. Free software can be paid for, either via users or via subsidies. Nobody is suggesting that developers starve.
    
    To be pragmatic here are ways free software can be monetized :
    
    get a salary from a company or institution that relies on free software
    
    ask for donations via e.g. liberapay.com or Patreon or OpenCollective
    
    get money per project via CrowdFunding platforms e.g. KickStarter or for hardware www.crowdsupply.com
    
    get subsidies directly, e.g. NLNet (International, no need to be European), or www.sovereign.tech/programs/fund or by being part of a consortium, e.g. public/private partnerships on a theme e.g. www.ciiic.nl/en/calls/learning-communities
    
    I professionally do both, namely I get paid to develop free software but I also pay free software developers, e.g. gcompris.net via their www.patreon.com/animtim
    
    I think it is important not to conflate free software with free of cost and indeed free of production. Free software developers need to play their bills but that does NOT have to be opposed to your freedom in using and modifying that software. By implying a false dichotomy by software being either proprietary or funded somehow you are in fact sadly promoting proprietary software, please do not do that.
    
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  - TORFdot0@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    You don’t have to go closed source to monetize your software (although it does make it easier)
    
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  - ken@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Sure but that doesn’t mean that this community should provide that commercialization venue.
    
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  - Hund@feddit.nu ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Paying for software is an exception, not a rule.
    
    And we only have proprietary software because there’s greedy people out there that take advantage of people who don’t know better.
    
    With that said. I’m not saying that developers shouldn’t get paid for what they do. They absolutely should! And a lot of them do, even when the code is free as in free beer and free speech.
    
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Faceman2K23@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
if they are obviously bot or dedicated marketing accounts, then no I dont think they should be here.

However, I’m not 100% opposed to closed source/paid software being discussed here, but it should clearly marked as such, with a flair that people can filter out if they so choose.

If someone posts asking about whether there are any alternatives to a paid closed source program, that’s a totally valid conversation, and if it turns out there is no FOSS alternative, then we have to talk about paid closed alternatives, find the one that offers the best value and vet for trustworthiness.

The rules say nothing about selling a paid service, but maybe “no spam” should be updated with some clarity on self promotion, so perhaps you can self promote your FOSS service with the appropriate flair, but if you are selling a paid closed service it shouldn’t be allowed?

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- breadsmasher@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  discussing a product is not the same as someone literally advertising their paid for product.
  
  are you ok with advertising on this community?
  
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  - Faceman2K23@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    if they are obviously bot or dedicated marketing accounts, then no I dont think they should be here.
    
    I would like the rules to make clear what is acceptable.
    
    self promotion of a FOSS project is acceptable in my opinion, as long as it is clearly titled as self promotion and isn’t done in a spamming way (such as carpet bombing multiple communities with bot posts). I’d also say that donation-seeking in those posts should be kept to the creators own web pages, not in the posts themselves too.
    
    there is a pretty easy line to draw for what is blatant advertising and what is genuine discussion of a paid service. that’s not that hard to moderate, especially when accounts are new, and carpet bombing the same posts to multiple communities, that is clearly spam.
    
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kiol@discuss.online ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
It would be helpful for such posts to include [PROPRIETARY] in the title, just as you included [META] since the majority of projects here are not proprietary.

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- justme@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  that is a good way. so people who don’t want to see it, can easily filter it.
  
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xyro@morbier.foo ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
If their first interaction with a community is to try to sell their shit, i don’t think they’re gonna be welcome anywhere

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Creat@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
While I’m fine with people wanting to self-host stuff with closed software (this includes Windows and Plex, btw), I personally am not interested in having ads of any kind in the community.

To me self hosting is about controlling your data. While I wouldn’t use proprietary software myself for this, I just want to make it clear that I’m fine with people asking for help it advice about it. Just not ads, of any kind.

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- SatyrSack@quokk.au ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Where do you draw the line? If a user who is generally a very active poster here wrote a useful program and hosted the source on Codeberg under a FOSS license, should they be allowed to make a post sharing it?
  
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  - Creat@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    For me personally an ad is when I’m being sold something. I can’t be sold something that is free and open. So someone showcasing their paid (but self hosted) service is an ad. Someone telling me about their (open) project is not.
    
    And when someone wants to use either and asks for help, is also (obviously) not an ad. Unless we see a flood of accounts posting trivial questions about a paid service to draw attention to it, but I kinda doubt it.
    
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HubertManne@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I think its funny that anyone who has closed source software thinks the best place to advertise it is in the federation. I love the fediverse but if it was the fact that it was gnu that I checked it out. I would totally not be here if it was closed source.

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- homik@slrpnk.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  That’s kind of the defining feature of spam. Not thinking if it’s appropriate or good, just sending everywhere because some of it will generate clicks.
  
  “Just delete it” or “scroll past” is not a useful response. Spam is infinite unless it’s blocked and/or punishable.
  
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  - HubertManne@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    well that gets to the other aspect of here. its not a large population to begin with.
    
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thisisnotausername@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Should not be allowed.

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GasMaskedLunatic@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
No advertisement is ever appropriate, period. Advertisements should be banned. I don’t mind a ‘look what I made’ post, but when the post designed to convince me to give you money, I see an immediate conflict of interest that suggests advertisement rather than information. It’s hard to draw that line without knowing intention, so I don’t think those posts should be disallowed, but if your post asks me to click a link to a product so I can give you my money, I’m downvoting.

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realitaetsverlust@piefed.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I don’t think “selfhosting” and “paid for” goes hand in hand because, at the end of the day, the application somehow will still contact some authentication server or some similar bullshit. That’s the contrary of what most people want from selfhosting.

I think this community should stick to actual OSS, free applications, not some semi-corporate bullshit.

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compostgoblin@piefed.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
IMO, if you have some sort of posting/commenting history, and you’re talking about a paid service that you happen to like, then no problem. If you’re brand new and just posting to promote something, nah.

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pory@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Ban 'em

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irmadlad@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
In this context: lemmy.world/post/48453617 I think it’s just fine.

OP is not asking anyone to buy their product. OP is not shilling their product. OP is asking those who run the *arr stack, and who are interested, to beta test the product, and in return, the beta tester gets the final product for free. This is how beta testing works. Where else would be a good place to have people beta test a product that integrates with what the majority of selfhosters run (*arr stack in this instance) than in a community of selfhosters.

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- AmbiguousProps@lemmy.today ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  This OP’s contribution to the community was trying to extract free labor for a soon to be paid product.
  
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irotsoma@piefed.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
If it’s closed source but can be self hosted, what is the business model? I think it would be hard to fight piracy in that case. If it requires connecting to a service periodically for licenses and has no free version that doesn’t require that, then I believe it should be banned. I don’t consider that self-hosted. That’s just running on your hardware, but not under your control. If the application is open or can be run locally without internet access and the paid portion is an add on like working as a proxy or something, then I have no real issue with that.

That said, there definitely should be a higher standard for users who are only marketing here. They should be making posts specifically for this group, not just sharing generic ads. The post should specifically state why it’s useful to self-hosters and thus relevant to the group.

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- moonpiedumplings@programming.dev ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Unraid is an example, that I consider fairly reasonable. Sure, it is a subscription.
  
  But all of the services are docker containers. What unraid brings to the table is a nice management UI, and the ability to mix and match drive of different sizes in a single raid pool. It makes having a fairly resilient self hosting setup easier than trying to do all of this stuff from scratch.
  
  Nice features sure, that many people find worth paying for, even if I don’t. But they are just nice to haves. If the company ever dies, it’s absolutely possible to export the data and move to say, portainer, or docker via the cli, or podman, or anything that can run containers.
  
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hendrik@palaver.p3x.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I don’t need any proprietary servers. So I’d vote for dropping the non-free projects. Except maybe Unraid and Plex maybe. I feel that’s (become) part of selfhosting.

And I think all the new accounts advertising Slop-projects are massively annoying. I’d rather talk about other stuff and send them someplace else.

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- i_love_FFT@jlai.lu ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I’m ambivalent about the topic because the goal is for us to own our servers…
  
  Most of the hardware I use is proprietary, but at the end of the day Intel can’t come and rob me of the object I paid for. Sure it will become obsolete in 10 or 20 years, but I’m still the owner.
  
  When it comes to software, I want to own it, not just a license. Most proprietary software comes with strings attached, which is why I don’t think it fits the self-hosting philosophy.
  
  If a proprietary software was “buy it once and own the binaries forever”, I wouldn’t mind seeing it discussed here. (Plex with lifetime licenses comes to mind.)
  
  However, I don’t want to see advertisement for a proprietary software the same way I don’t want to see ads for some specific hardware components.
  
  That’s my opinion.
  
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avidamoeba@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I think self-hosting has the expectation of the ability to self-host for indefinite period of time. E.g. I can run Jellyfin 10.10 for as long as I have the hardware and willingness to run it. A proprietary piece of software, say Plex, could technically allow that too, but that’s much less likely. Since I can’t see its source code, I can’t know if there’s a time bomb that stops it from working at some future date. Or an update/remote procedure I don’t know about that asks me to pay $750 at some point to continue using it. Which could preclude me from being able to continue self-hosting it. Is the ability to self-host indefinitely an expectation everyone shares? Probably not. Probably worth thinking about in this context though.

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warmaster@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I think they should be allowed. However, I wouldn’t even date to touch them with a stick from afar in VR.

Plex was the last proprietary thing I ever selfhosted and it’s been a perfect reminder.

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OliverTheBear@lemmy.umucat.day ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I dont care for them. I would prefer if there’s a way to intentionally hide them or remove them from my feed.

I wouldn’t mind if they’re all moved to a specific channel for them to all live in just to not spam others

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- justme@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  i think that is were tagging comes in handy
  
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Imaginary_Stand4909@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I think people should have to lurk and contribute a little before just advertising.

I don’t think we should promote closed-source apps on here at all, at least not in it’s own post. For exampke, many people here talk about Symfonium when mentioning their music client that they use to listen to their selfhosted music, and that app is not FOSS at all.

If an app is mostly open with some proprietary bits, then we can discuss. I’m perfectly fine with fully OSS apps that aren’t free, as the devs do deserve to be paid. As gnu.org states, Free means “Freedom” not “Free beer.” While I typically only use “free beer” type FOSS apps, I do occasionally donate to ones I love/use often, but we know that devs struggle to keep their projects afloat.

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Sxan@piefed.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I don’t mind small developers posting about new releases or whatnot, but I’m concerned about a slippery slope. We don’t want þe community to become an advertising hellscape innundated by ads from þe likes such as Adobe, Microsoft, or Palantir. Not þat it’s likely þey would, but once you allow it, how do you prevent it if it does happen? Even one corporate ad is too much, IMHO.

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