Submitted 2 months ago by return2ozma@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
I will argue smartphones or any electronic is not the problem. The problem is lazy parents.
My kids all have had phones since before 10 and they’re all well adjusted but to be clear I monitor their usage and I check in with my kids regularly.
I cannot hold back society or technology at the fear of my kids being left behind. What I can do is help them navigate both as they grow.
I love how quick we are to lay the blame anywhere but parents.
I strongly believe that a large part of the reason China is so strict with underage phone and game restrictions is because the parents are at work for too long to do any real parenting. Ideally parents should be the ones making those choices and actually monitoring their kids, but since I don’t have kids I can’t really say for myself.
the parents are at work for too long to do any real parenting
This 100%.
I’m always sus of anything the Chinese government does. I feel that governments restricting Internet usage is just a way to indoctrinate them into only the media you (the state) shows them
The problem here is that the systems you have to monitor usage aren’t great, and kids are known for lying or omitting details to their parents.
Giving kids open-ended access to technology doesn’t have to involve giving them access to the Internet without constant guidance. I would rather my kid have less digital access than her peers, than get sexually exploited because they were a child publicly online.
More and more I am seeing that the places kids go online are places I don’t fully understand, but a cursory review reveals is also a hotspot for sexual predators. This seems like the perfect place for a predator to stalk my child. I don’t know enough to stop them, and my kid doesn’t know enough not to get exploited. By the time I find out about it, it’ll probably be too late.
Giving a child an internet-connected camera and screen can become such a horrific nightmare, I think that good parenting actually has to involve being realistic and telling your kids “just because your friends have TikTok and Instagram doesn’t mean you won’t get grounded for it in this house”, and letting kids use technology when I am in the room with them. I have seen what kids are posting online, and it’s easy to assume that their parents don’t care, but it’s a lot more realistic to accept that kids are good at keeping secrets, and their parents don’t know what they’re up to.
If they want to learn about computers on their own, I’ll buy them what they need to learn about all sorts of stuff that doesn’t expose them directly to capitalist or sexual exploitation online. When they are old enough to defend themselves, then they can be given the trust in accessing the Internet on their own, but until then they need to explore under my watchful eye.
Giving a smartphone to a <10 year old child, and trusting that the limited monitoring tools available, and your child’s honesty is enough to keep them safe from vicious exploitation is delusional and irresponsible.
This is an extremely reactionary take. I hear what you are saying but I draw the line as delusional and irresponsible unless you apply that to pretty much all parents that don’t completely smother their children.
We make mistakes as we grow. We lie. We get hurt. Technology is always Pandora’s box. I’d argue we have better knowledge of our kids now than we ever used to and stats show the world is safer now than it has ever been.
If you live in fear you will form your decisions from a place of fear.
This is actually a good take. Kids aren’t miniature adults, they’re kids. They’re not helpless or useless, but neither are they fully morally and emotionally developed. They need guidance. Plenty of adults can’t responsibly handle internet access. I survived early onilne porn and gore and social media, but it’s not like any of it benefited me in a meaningful way.
Some folks have an attitude that’s like “I touched hot stoves and I learned better”, but that’s far from ideal.
Scrolling to find out what “EE” is… I can’t find anything. Can someone fill me in?
EE (formerly Everything Everywhere) is a British mobile network operator, internet service provider and a brand of BT Consumer, a division of BT Group. Supposedly the #1 network in the UK similar to Verizon in the US.
A telecom company with the hubris and arrogance to call themselves “Everything Everywhere”.
Equine Enchephalitis
Electrical Engineers.
Get the kids a dumb phone instead. Calls and texts are more than enough in an emergency
When I went to price it out at the store, the line for a dumb phone was going to cost $30/mo more than a smart phone. It was dumb.
So get them a smartphone plan and slap the SIM in their dumbphone?
If the new dumb phones also came with Google Family Link for tracking then it would be a win. But they don’t. As a parent, having the ability to track my kids when I know they’re heading to or from somewhere is a big deal. And no, it’s not an issue of trust.
Give them a phone with no play store or browser. If they get apks over mms or adb I think they’ve earned them
I’d argue that is still an issue of trust, but maybe more concerning society / the local neighborhood.
My kids are around that age and it’s a real struggle when all of their friends have one.
There is a growing tide of data suggesting the fight is worth it, but understand it is a serious struggle.
Much like trying to get kids to eat healthy when they are surrounded by so much awful food in the US.
I wish I didn’t need an Android phone for work, WhatsApp, Telegram, maps.
But I sadly do.
Too bad?
In my opinion, social media is a bigger problem than smartphones in general. For me a smartphone is a just a tool that can be both incredibly useful but also very harmful.
With a bit of knowhow, you can neuter a smartphone so kids can’t access social media, games, and other distracting mediums. No social media apps, no browser access, no YouTube, no games. But they can still access useful functions like calculators, the torch, phone calls and messages, etc. Android and iOS both have features allowing parents to do this.
I think that this is somewhat besides the point. Give a smartphone to a teenager, and block all social media, and one of two things is going to happen:
Is it the phone, or the social media? The article only really mentions social media as the real issue.
Subsequently, does that mean social media on a computer is 100% A-OK? (this is a mobile phone carrier so it makes sense that they’d only focus on phones)
The article specifically mentions smartphones. Which smartphone can’t access social media?
All smartphones can access social media. But they also have some really good (mostly intuitive) parental controls. So if you don’t want you kid on Facebook just block it.
What does it matter if the child is on a phone all day va on a computer all day? Sure you can’t really do that in class, but what about the other 16 hours of the day?
Both.
You definitely see a difference in children who are regularly given phones to keep them occupied. They’re just so much more hyper active. I know a lot of teachers have been complaining about phone use in the classrooms. In Canada they just started rolling back against rules saying teachers can’t confiscate phones.
Just don’t do it people. Me and so many parents have horror stories. Even without social media these phone numbers get out one way or another. For us it was much more trouble than it was worth.
I haven’t had a problem.
iPhone with Screen time and communication limits means I can control how much time they spend in the device and in which apps and I control who they can contact.
Don’t approve any apps that allow social features.
Talk to them about the realities of the internet and the wider world.
All of this has to happen at some point. If you just hand off a phone to an 11 year old or even a 14 year old workout doing any of the above, you’re still going to have issues.
Much of what is being said about tech is the same as was said about tv and video games. The only studies you’re going to hear about this are the ones that confirm the societal biases.
If you don’t seek counter opinions of this topic you’re playing into the same fear mongering every generation of parents has had about the new thing.
Dancing, rock and roll, tv, video games, and now phones. Every time, everyone thinks this time is different and every time it hasn’t been.
Dancing, rock and roll, tv, video games, and now phones. Every time, everyone thinks this time is different and every time it hasn’t been.
One of these things is not like the other.
Don’t give them a phone until they are prepared to see everything the Internet has. Kids can be smart and will find ways around the blocks you put in place.
The thing I tell people is that as a parent, you are going to put maybe a few hours into blocking them from getting to stuff. They are then going to spend as much time as they want trying to get through it. You can dig through concrete with a spoon if you’re patient enough.
Educate them, and give them access when they’re responsible enough
That’s the real problem, kids being able to spend unlimited time unsupervised because they have horrible absent parents. Parents shouldnt let their kids have unrestricted time like that. That is one reason why kids suffer in school not because of phones; because their parents aren’t involved to guide them in making good choices and forcing good habits.
So we take away the phones as the luddites demand. What fills the gap? Definitely not independent learning. Most definitely not suddenly mindful and present parents.
There is a lot of fear mongering and blaming, but no actual effort to fix it. Banning or removing doesn’t fix it. There is a reason that, when absent parents for latchkey kids were huge problems, they didn’t simply decree gangs illegal and pat themselves on the back. Communities offered alternatives. But no alternative is being offered here. All the woes are shifted onto the unholy smartphone and internet.
Ya know why predators can find success online? Because shit parents don’t parent. A better use of resources would be forcing the parents to sacrifice their phones contingent on spending time with their kids, right?
They are probably smart enough to find a phone if they want one…
Smartphones cost enough that a parent can control the finances and I don’t believe kids can aquire a large enough fund by themselve without.
And if, usually as a gift and that is probably taken in by a parent anyway
Phone maybe, but not a SIM card with data. Although you can do a lot without a SIM card if your school has public WiFi I guess
EE is advising parents that children under 11 should be given old-fashioned brick or “dumb” phones that only allow them to call or text instead.
That sounds ridiculous. An 11-year-old is, what, a fifth-grader in the US?
If they have access to a computer or something in addition to their phone, okay, maybe. But for a lot of young people in 2024, their smartphone is their sophisticated electronic device. Maybe they tack on a keyboard or whatnot. But take that away, and they don’t have a computer to use. A computer is just too essential of a tool to not let someone learn.
Kids used to veg out in front of the TV, where material is generally not all that fantastic and the device is noninteractive. I think that it’s great that smartphones are replacing that.
I was programming when I was in first grade. I was doing computer graphics and word processing somewhere around there. Those are important skillsets to have. You want kids to pick those up. I’d get a computer into their hands at the earliest point that they can avoid destroying it.
If your concern is that you want to restrict access to pornography or something, okay, fine, whatever, set up content filtering. I think that they’re probably going to get at it anyway. But that does not entail not permitting access to the computing device. That’s a restriction on access to the Internet.
In May this year, MPs on the education committee urged the government to consider a total ban on smartphones for the under-16s and a statutory ban on mobile-phone use in schools as part of a crackdown on screen time for children.
That’d be, what, up to high school before you have one? And that’s not “I have parents who want that”, but outright “the government doesn’t let anyone do that”.
I was programming when I was in first grade. I was doing computer graphics and word processing somewhere around there. Those are important skillsets to have. I made use of those. You want kids to pick those up. You do not want to push those back. I’d get a computer of whatever form into their hands at the earliest point that they can avoid destroying it.
Most kids aren’t improving their skillsets. They definitely aren’t programming on cell phones. I am a programmer. I have code editors that I paid for on my phone at all times. I’ve used them like 5 times at most.
Social media and misinformation is damaging for everyone but more so for children. Social media is what kids are mostly doing.
I agree that there can positives for using a cell phone. Their are educational software but most kids aren’t doing that.
Even if they are only figuring out how to ignore clickbait, they are improving their skill sets.
Social media is “damaging”, in the same way that all social activities are “damaging”. The solution is not isolation, but early exposure. The last kid to get a phone is the one at greatest social disadvantage.
Smartphones won’t help you learn how computers work. They are dumbed down devices, designed to keep you on social media while maximizing exposure to ads. These things are way worse than TVs.
Wikipedia. Google Maps. The store of knowledge available from search engines. I use those all the time. You want to cut them off from that?
That’s a bit overdramatic. Most kids have a laptop for schoolwork these days. I personally didn’t get a smartphone until I started university, got a Samsung S7 then. I had no issues accessing any of those sources. These days I have a comp sci masters degree, so it definitely didn’t “stunt” me in any way.
I read and certainly write way more text than I did in the pre-Internet era. Do you want kids reading and writing less?
Kids reading and writing skills appear to have been declining ever since the rise of the smartphone, so I doubt they’re reading anything of sufficient quality to hone those skills a bit.
Schools here have recently mostly banned smartphones, and the kids seem happier for it and their grades and concentration in school is improving. Sound like positives to me.
Agree with your points on having a pocked PC to hack with, the issue here is then with mobile and their OS makers which mindbogglingly have omitted to design a working and hardly hackable “children account mode”, since what is damaging here is not what they can fiddle within their devices, nor certainly what they can read from wikipedia, but rather the unfiltered and unaccountable exposure to a profiling oriented social media storm which even adults fatigue to cope with.
I’m sure it isn’t unheard of OSes having a hardware locked managed kiosk mode, because that is what smartphones basically need.
I think we all could benefit from less screen time 💻
Let’s go one step further…
VRChat on the Quest is not a babysitter!
Is that a step further though? I feel like not giving kids access to VR Chat comes way before not giving them a smartphone in terms of restrictiveness or severity. It’s a far more reasonable suggestion.
Both… but a Quest is mainly designed for gaming, where a smartphone is designed to do everything. The smartphone restrictikn is an easy one to recommend.
The first (and only) time I played VRChat, my takeaway was, “What kind of adult would want to play a game with this many preteens in every room?”
Then I answered my own question…
Yeah, public worlds are cancer. It’s best to get in with friends or groups.
Lucky them. I wish I didn’t need one. It’s a window to other people’s problems.
You know you don’t have to doomscroll social media right?
Why did you assume I was talking about social media? Besides lemmy I really don’t do social media.
Make parents less entitled. Problem solved.
ME and CE warn against children under 16 handling firearms.
Social media has rekd us all regardless of age.
Also, did me deleting my comment not federate for you? Is it still up for you?
it should have been deleted before you had time to comment in response.
Mountain_Mike_420@lemmy.ml 2 months ago
Please don’t give kids smartphones period. A smart watch is far less addictive and just as valuable to parents and kids (parents can track location, kids can still make phone calls and txt.) other suggestions are a dumb phone (think t9 txting), or just let them go phoneless.
yaycupcake@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 months ago
I don’t think going phoneless would be a great idea because emergencies happen and people need to communicate but society would probably be better if kids weren’t glued to smartphone apps and social media from a young age. The smart watch or dumb phone idea makes sense to me though.
copd@lemmy.world 2 months ago
The emergency argument can be managed by not giving kids phone internet aceess (wifi or lte). Im sure there are products out there which fit that requirement
majestictechie@lemmy.fosshost.com 2 months ago
Don’t they require smart phones to work though? All the ones I have had are all just BT devices which require a phone to do anything beyond tell the time
gray@pawb.social 2 months ago
There are several cellular capable watches.
GBU_28@lemm.ee 2 months ago
Or just give them a dumb phone.
helenslunch@feddit.nl 2 months ago
Garmin makes watches specifically for kids and seem to have a decent privacy policy.
falk1856@midwest.social 2 months ago
Anyone have a recommendation for a decent kids smartwatch with cell service? I got my son a Garmin Bounce and the text and the service sucked so we returned it.
prettybunnys@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
You can find older Apple Watches for fairly cheap, I paid 10 bucks a month on T-Mobile for just the watch plan.
You would need to have an iPhone in order to manage it but you can manage a watch for a kid that way. They have school mode for them so it just acts as a watch with emergency contact action at school.