Probably better to post in the github issue rather than replying here.
“That dude downvoted a cute cat pic, get 'im!”
Lemmy devs are considering making all votes public - have your say
Submitted 2 months ago by rimu@piefed.social to fediverse@lemmy.world
https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/4967
Comments
Prandom_returns@lemm.ee 2 months ago
tacofox@lemm.ee 2 months ago
“That dude commented saying he doesn’t like cats. Get him!”
See how stupid that sounds?
better_world@slrpnk.net 2 months ago
That’s creepy
Brickardo@feddit.nl 2 months ago
I just hope my app hides them
Pichu0102@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Maybe a model where upvotes and downvotes can per instance be federated either publicly or aggregated? So an instance admin could choose to bundle together the vote totals and push them to other instances and it would just show the total number of votes on comments and posts by people on their server rather than the individuals. And if a federated server acts up and sends bad vote totals, the instance could be blocked for it as a trade off.
SorteKanin@feddit.dk 2 months ago
The underlying protocol, ActivityPub has no support for aggregated votes.
if a federated server acts up and sends bad vote totals, the instance could be blocked for it as a trade off.
How would you detect this? It seems very hard.
Pichu0102@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Vibes, generally. If you see a server regularly having lots of downvotes or upvotes on things that otherwise would go the other way, it’s probably a bad sign and asking the other instance admin what’s going on should be a way to start figuring out how to handle it. As for activitypub, there isn’t a generic server to server message that could contain a VoteTotals field while updates to the standard are proposed for addition?
Gullible@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Having seen the complete absence of mayhem on kbin caused by vote visibility, the absolute and utter nothing that will come of this decision leads me to say yeah, sure. That said, I’d prefer improved mod tools over this, but option c isn’t listed.
Kolanaki@yiffit.net 2 months ago
They basically already are, if you run an instance. Might as well make it easier.
mortemtyrannis@lemmy.ml 2 months ago
Yes make it public.
No real reason not to.
spiderwort@leminal.space 2 months ago
Yes make votes public
kionite231@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
In my opinion this setting should be set by the use. Whether they want their votes to be shown to public. If they deny Lemmy would just show “upvoted by anon” or something.
SorteKanin@feddit.dk 2 months ago
That is not possible. The underlying protocol, ActivityPub does not have a concept of private votes. This is not up to Lemmy to decide.
hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 2 months ago
Yeah, I think the ActivityPub standard doesn't have a concept of votes at all. They're not defined in the first place.
Five@slrpnk.net 2 months ago
I support opening up vote logs to moderators in their own communities. Voting records add useful context to the nature of the exchanges happening, eg. if two people are having a back and forth, but neither is downvoting the other, it contextualizes the disagreement as less hostile.
I don’t think it’s a good idea to give every new user the burden of using that information responsibly. A minority would use it to retaliate, stalk, and harass, and there would be too many of them to reasonably hold them accountable.
troyunrau@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
So, federated network advantages here: you can always modify your instance’s hosting code to patch this out, at least for the users on your instance.
What you cannot do is prevent other federated instances from publishing the votes submitted to content on their instance. But if you’re accessing that content through your local instance, they can modify the upvote button to pop up a dialog saying something like: “The instance that hosts this content has elected to make usernames visible for upvote/downvote. Would you still like to vote?”
Personally: In many ways I don’t mind. I’m on the internet with my real name. I don’t mind being accountable for my behaviour online. I might be a little more cautious about upvoting something controversial or NSFW, but largely it wouldn’t change my behaviour.
PanArab@lemm.ee 2 months ago
I support this. I want to know who keeps downvoting my posts.
Iceblade02@lemmy.world 2 months ago
This kind of sentiment is exactly why votes need to not be visible. As soon as the general expectation is that votes are public information free to be used and abused, it will be used and abused.
PanArab@lemm.ee 2 months ago
It exposes the troll and bot accounts that just downvote while having zero posts.
Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 2 months ago
There are a lot of arguments about social pressuring users into voting a certain way. But not having votes public also leads to a lot of vote manipulation. Especially from the Hasbro’s.
Lemmy is a lot like the early days of the internet right now. Very easy to abuse and mostly running on users not doing so. Bot accounts will start being a bigger and bigger issue with the growth and Lemmy so there needs to be a way to combat this.
Votes are also already not private as many users said. Just by running an instance one can see all the votes.
recapitated@lemmy.world 2 months ago
You could make a client or browser add-on or something that just uses a separate account for all your voting.
Annoyed_Crabby@monyet.cc 2 months ago
Based on the comment, it seems there’s more opposition toward visible downvote than upvote, so maybe dev should just make upvote visible and not downvote?
masquenox@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Hard yes from me, thank you.
obbeel@lemmy.eco.br 2 months ago
My posts and comments are already exposed, so it seems like it would make sense to make votes public as well. I think it contributes to the general spirit of the platform.
theneverfox@pawb.social 2 months ago
I’m split, but I lean slightly towards no. On one hand, it could be good for discoverability, and it would help my efforts to make a client-side algorithm
On the other hand, it will make one of Lemmy’s problems worse - engagement. Some people will vote less, and it’s already feeling a little quieter around here as the numbers settled after the Reddit Exodus. I doubt it’ll be a massive change, but a .5% decrease in voting, permanently, could make a difference
Ultimately, you can see it on federated platforms, so shrug
redisdead@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Idk why anyone would think it’s a good idea.
m3t00@lemmy.world 2 months ago
seems trivial to check for a login/subscribed etc. then increment up//down votes. why link each vote to an account in public? maybe for mods an account(s) to be banned for botting votes?
auzy@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Already had one person today mention my down votes .
It didn’t validate their argument at all and without context it can be interpreted in any fashion to make it seem malicious
VinnyDaCat@lemmy.world 2 months ago
There are merits for it and against it. My biggest concerns would be privacy regarding data scrapers .
Regarding poor behavior, I really think that ultimately comes down to moderation on the platform. I’ve only had a few poor experiences but I am also someone who sometimes sees certain threads as dumpster fires and refrains from joining in or refrains from responding when I feel there isn’t any form of discussion or chatter to be had. I can understand that it likely happens more often than not but I also believe that moderation is the only reasonable way of curbing it. Moderation teams have to make it clear that the behavior is not welcome and that it will be dealt with.
tal@lemmy.today 2 months ago
My biggest concerns would be privacy regarding data scrapers .
The protocol already exposes votes, so they already have that. It’s just not currently visible in the Lemmy web UI. You can, as other people on here have pointed out, already go to any kbin/mbin instance federated with a lemmy instance and view upvotes on a post or comment on that lemmy instance. Not downvotes, but kbin/mbin don’t propagate downvotes.
bloodfart@lemmy.ml 2 months ago
Get rid of votes.
They only rank replies and posts as content, which is only useful for advertising or providing a platform without ads that hooks into the same antisocial behaviors that an ad revenue driven one would.
They also discourage replies, promote groupthink and provide a vector for abuse.
Get rid of votes. You’re not on reddit anymore, you don’t have to be a redditor .
Zozano@lemy.lol 2 months ago
Go a step further,
Make it mandatory to comment if you vote.
!I don’t really mean this, but can you imagine!<
PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
Allow it to be configurable by server or community. Some communities may benefit from allowing the public or mods to see votes, while others would be hurt by it.
FiskFisk33@startrek.website 2 months ago
mods already see votes
PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
And that should probably be configurable
Okokimup@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I would like the option to make it public on my community. I have asked people not to downvote amateur bakers for just trying to improve their skills but some assholes don’t listen.
Annoyed_Crabby@monyet.cc 2 months ago
A community specific downvote disabling would be pretty nice for this occasion.
cabbage@piefed.social 2 months ago
True. Disabling downvotes would make a whole lot more sense than making them public and shame people who use them.
lulztard@feddit.org 2 months ago
That’d be nice.
saltesc@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I really don’t care about what any of you think, so go for it. Perhaps better discussion will come from it. And I’d like to block users with consistent negative behaviours.
GBU_28@lemm.ee 2 months ago
The problem is if YOU choose to vote something, and a powermod admin dislikes your choice, they can, and do, ban people from many communities on that alone.
Annoyed_Crabby@monyet.cc 2 months ago
Admin can already see your vote.
Ashtear@lemm.ee 2 months ago
And I’d like to block users with consistent negative behaviours.
This is where I’m at it with it. Votes are already public to those who really want to see them and that cat’s not going back in the bag. Anyone that goes out of their way to inject it into the conversation is showing their ass and adding a (likely extra) level of toxicity that blocking would fix.
Fizz@lemmy.nz 2 months ago
They can already do that and you have the modlog to prove your innocence.
vga@sopuli.xyz 2 months ago
Generally speaking, you shouldn’t do anything on the internet that you don’t want to become public.
Emmie@lemm.ee 2 months ago
I have continuous doubts if a tankie having nick after Jean-Jacques Dessalines can exhibit any grown up behaviour. It’s like 15 year old pretending for a while to be all democratic and responsible but who knows what’s in that edgy head.
nutsack@lemmy.world 2 months ago
either way id still shit out my ass
Decoy321@lemmy.world 2 months ago
There… There aren’t a lot of things that would change that…