Submitted 3 months ago by HEXN3T@lemmy.blahaj.zone to showerthoughts@lemmy.world
A difficult part of writing for me is when a single sentence–especially dialogue–contains two tones. It sounds best as a single sentence, but ending with a period, or alternative punctuation, looks wrong. As well as this, using two sentences also looks wrong.
I can’t think of a great example right now, but I know I’ve wanted punctuation that doesn’t exist before. I’ve had moments where it would have been so useful to have a “;!” and a “;?” mark.
¿Perhaps something like this: 1000010473?
Is that the best? or is it just what we have?
I’ve thought the same thing many times. I love interrobang (not least of which for it’s kickass name), but the same sentiment can be expressed in other ways. Dialogue can convey the others, but if you want to recreate the way humans actually speak English, you need a mid sentence punctuation, like a comma, that can express questioning. Even in speech, we change our intonation to be higher when questioning, and we do that sometimes in the middle of a sentence. It’s just not conveyable perfectly with our current set of symbols.
Exactly this. If you know what a semicolon and question mark/exclamation point’s purpose is, then you know how this punctuation works. The best tool is that which requires no manual at all. Occam’s Razor, or something along those lines.
¡It’s immediately, perfectly understandable! :k
I’ve occasionally seen the exclamation mark put inside of parentheses. I interpret it as the writer saying to the reader, “are you seeing this shit?”
Anyway, not sure if that’s what you’re going for here.
I’m only going for a semicolon with tonality. Overall, super simple and straightforward. It uses already existing marks with already established meaning, and provides a useful way to transcribe dialogue.
Why does this not exist;? Something so damned simple!
So, for the record, these things come into existence in the first place simply because someone, somewhere, starts using them. Language is something that drifts over time, and punctuation is no exception.
Why does this not exist;? Something so damned simple!
You don't really need to link these clauses together, it sounds clunky. A question should probably be independent the vast majority of the time, and when it isn't it should come last.
Like this: Something so damned simple; why does it not exist? I think it sounds way better and is easier to read.
I think what you're proposing is unnecessary when you could just rewrite it to flow better. I can guarantee you that there's probably a better way to structure your sentence than simply inserting a new form of punctuation.
I suggest using a ternary operator. At least 10% of Lemmy users will understand this syntax.
noooo pls don’t DRY tun-state-desiccate language with terse-nary cleverness
Probably in programming communities ? people will understand : people won’t understand
Please, I’m confused enough about what people younger than 30 are trying to say.
Elvis operator better
I don’t really understand what you mean, do you have examples of how you would use it? Or a scenario where you would need it
I have been posting examples under other comments
I’m actually also quite curious
They are already invented: 😱 and 😱😱😱
Kinda like this sentence?; because it starts off as a question, but I explain it afterwards with a statement.
Italics
Have you tried handwriting italics? It’s not fun.
Switch from block letters to cursive, or vice versa. Or all capitals. Anything that shows a difference.
I daresay this would be a revolutionary addition to grammar;! What say you?
Is a new mark necessary? Just taking out the semicolon does exactly what you want.
Hell, the semicolon was pretty much invented because someone thought “What if I want a compound sentence, but can’t decide on a conjunction to put between them?”
How often does anybody use THOSE? (In English, C++ doesn’t count)
The sentence doesn’t have emphasis unless I use italics, which isn’t always convenient, or sometimes even possible (writing, software with no formatting).
Also, I use semicolons–and double hyphens, for that matter–quite frequently. I love using them.
No, semicolons are not for compound sentences; they’re for something else.
What we really need is a format option for backwards italics (sartalics) instead of a stupid proprietary font.
I use these often, but it doesn’t solve a sentence being split into two distinct tones. A “!?” mark is useful for when you’re effectively shouting a question, but it’s not the instance I’m referring to.
are you envisioning it as a lighter exlamation, question ??
TheSpookiestUser@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I often see this accomplished with dashed interjections - dashes! can you believe that? - as a way to break up a sentence while still continuing with a single train of thought. But I always support the invention of new punctuation, how long has it been since we got any? We’re well overdue.
SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Is the interrobang not enough for you‽
dharmacurious@slrpnk.net 3 months ago
¡I love the interrobang! But I feel like we need more than just that. ⸘Would it not be fantastic to know the tone of a sentence from the beginning‽
Also, I believe what OP is looking for is something like this image. Sadly, I can’t find a keyboard with them, or a copy/pastable line where they’ve been typed. 1000010473
Would also be useful mixed with the interrobang. The backwards question mark “⸮” is also often used for rhetorical questions. But it’s sometimes replaced with ❓because it’s easier to type on a phone. ❗Is sometimes used for sarcastic enthusiasm, too, instead of the “official” sarcmark with is apparently copywrited and difficult to parse because it’s all swirly and weird, whereas the big red ❗ or ❓ is way more obviously out of place and meant to be noticed, like sarcasm or a rhetorical question.
tiefling@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 months ago
I always enjoy a good interrobang before bed
We’re both talking about the same thing right?
HEXN3T@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 months ago
Writing is as much a form of stylistic expression as any other medium.