Comment on Interesting how artists don't make enough money from their creations, so our solution is to make certain information illegal to share, rather than give them a universal basic income.

medicsofanarchy@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

• ultratiem@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  You say that like that would be bad.

  Who fights for having people in braindead jobs, working unsafe conditions, Christ almighty. Check please.

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  • Wogi@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    You can debate the merits of some work, you can debate the amount people are compensated for that work. But what is absolutely not debatable is that we actually need people to do work for us to contribute to function as a society. Some of that work that’s absolutely necessary is both dangerous and nigh impossible to automate. Do we need another Starbucks? No, absolutely not. But we will still need places to be built, and infrastructure maintained. There’s really no escaping that.

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    • AltheaHunter@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      That’s why it’s a basic income. Enough to keep you housed, clothed and fed. Your clothes might be thrifted, your apartment small, and your diet mostly instant ramen, but your basic needs will be covered. Plenty of people would still work hard to get more than the basics.

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      • Wogi@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Why not just guarantee those things for everyone?

        Guaranteed housing, guaranteed food, guaranteed clothing. No work required. I agree with you, I think most people will still work with all of that taken care of. Because it’s just basic.

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    • spacecowboy@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      It will still get done.

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      • Pasta4u@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Who would work at Starbucks if you get a living wage making shitty art ?

        Is there even a quota needed in this? Can I make one piece of art a week that takes ten minutes and I get my living wage ?

        Why would I work 40 hours dealing with any customer. Why would I work in a field picking crops or at a construction site ?

        I’ll join hunter Biden making blow art and getting g paid

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    • unoriginalsin@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      But what is absolutely not debatable is that we actually need people to do work for us

      Citation needed.

      to contribute to function as a society

      As if that’s a worthy goal.

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      • Wogi@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        2 edgy 4 me m8

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      • unoriginalsin@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Says the guy who literally advocate the enslavement of the majority of the human race. Where even if your line, my guy?

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  • helenslunch@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    You say that like that would be bad.

    There’s work to be done. Everyone can’t be an artist. It’s exactly why they’re not paid well to do it. It’s a high-supply, low-demand job.

    You people are living in a fantasy land.

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    • PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      We got fat on the third world and people think we can just say “fuck you, got mine” to the rest of the planet.

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    • ultratiem@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      “Artists” make everything you touch or look at. Unless you define “artist” as someone who drinks all day, and whips paint at blank canvass.

      UI-UX artists design the way programs look and function. Game artists build the worlds we play in. Architecture. Indoor decor. Even the cool looking rug you got at IKEA… designed by an industrial artist.

      We are everywhere. Coming up with cool looking phones, apps, OSes, and yes, sculptures and paintings too. So you’re right, there is work to be done. There is so much skill and investment into the life of artist. You’d know if you ever spent a day in their shoes.

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      • helenslunch@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Your know exactly what I mean by “artists”. Don’t be daft

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  • intensely_human@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Probably someone who sees a causal connection between unpleasant work and pleasant outcomes later.

    I mean if work was an end unto itself it doesn’t make much sense to go do things you don’t feel like doing. But once you connect the present moment of facing unpleasantness to the future payoff of the work, it makes more sense.

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    • Gabu@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Most office work for company conglomerate X? Completely useless to society. The whole of Wall Street? Completely useless to society. In fact, most jobs in any field which isn’t STEM R&D is largely superfluous. So, what was your point again?

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  • Zippy@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    So your ok if your garbage does not get taken out or if that many less people want to be doctors and nurses?

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• MossyFeathers@pawb.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Oh nooooo, people won’t be as strongly bound to corporations anymore! Whatever will we do?

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  • Blamemeta@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Starve?

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    • spacecowboy@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      That’s what the UBI is for. Keep up.

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      • Blamemeta@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Ok, who will grow food? Who will truck it to grocery stores? Who will work at the store?

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    • onion@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      We only need like a dozen farmers to feed the everyone

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      • n3m37h@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        There are a dozen farmers on my road

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      • Blamemeta@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        The fuck are you on about? A dozen farmers? Yeah, if there were a dozen people. Wtf are you on?

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      • Wogi@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        You’re off a bit, but only by a factor of about 3 million.

        One US farmer feeds about 150 people. 300 in absolutely ideal conditions that do not exist.

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• hperrin@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  The reason it’s called universal is because everyone gets it.

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  • n3m37h@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    No that’s not how it works. If you’re out of a job you still get a basic income via the government. Ontario, Canada has had something akin to this for years called Ontario (you have to apply and it’s not nearly enough tbh) And it did a pilot program for UBI in Oshawa (where GM pulled its Detroit maneuver) and it was working till our brain dead Premier axed it

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    • hperrin@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      That’s called unemployment benefits. Universal Basic Income is universal, like the name says.

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    • Delphia@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Actually that is how one way of rolling it out works.

      EVERYONE gets it, which makes administrating the whole deal very easy. No application process, no means testing, nothing. You give it to everyone and tax higher to cover it.

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• Laticauda@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  You say that like it’s a bad thing. We could use more people who can afford to make art in the world, even if a lot of it would be shitty art.

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  • fsxylo@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Eeh deviant art had that perspective and then got flooded with mspaint fetish porn and became unusable.

    Art station on the other hand always blows me away every time I visit the front page. So there’s a limit.

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  • realitista@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Do we really need them more than doctors, plumbers, teachers, etc. though? While I’m for a UBI, I’m against it being enough to fully live off of for exactly this reason. The world doesn’t need a bunch more popsicle stick art.

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    • Laticauda@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Speak for yourself. I think the world would be a much better place with more popsicle stick art.

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• masterspace@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  UBI is a separate concern from copyright being a dumb way of rewarding intellectual property.

  Everyone should get UBI to reduce poverty and houselessness. Artists should get paid for their work, when it’s valuable. Sometimes that value is immediately recognized at the time by the masses. Sometimes it’s not. Given computers and the internet, there is no technical reason that every single person on the planet couldn’t have access to all digital art at all times.

  All of these things can be true, and their sum total makes copyright look asinine.

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• Kedly@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  You do realise U in UBI means Universal, they arent suggesting only artists get it

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• DarkMetatron@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  The biggest issue with UBI is that it will never work, the math just doesn’t add up.

  1. Where does the money come from? The government only really has one source of money and that is taxes, so to pay UBI it would either need to raise taxes or massive cut on other expanses.
  2. Should a solution be found for 1) and everyone (universal means that everyone will automatically qualify for it, no questions asked) will be paid UBI then the prices for housing, food and all the other basic things will skyrocket because a) of the higher demand and b) because of the higher amount of money in circulation creating inflation.
  3. The higher prices will mean that the amount of UBI money must be raised, which means we are back at 1)

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  • HerbalGamer@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Where does the money come from? The government only really has one source of money and that is taxes, so to pay UBI it would either need to raise taxes or massive cut on other expanses.

    How’s that National Debt looking?

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    • DarkMetatron@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Debt is not a reliable money source, in the long run it is a huge money sink with payments and interests. So yes, the only money source for governments are taxes.

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  • realitista@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I like the idea of a “Citizen’s Dividend” funded from taxes on pollution, carbon Emmissions, etc. We can throw a wealth tax for billionaires in there too.

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    • DarkMetatron@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Taxes on pollution, carbon emissions etc. would raise the costs of living and would therefore mean that the UBI would need to be higher to accommodate for the higher costs. Which means that a huge part of these taxes would be payed in proxy by the government. Rendering it useless as a method to fund the UBI.

      The costs for a UBI are just so enormous, and all on the shoulders of the working class, because those are the majority of tax payers.

      If you have a million people, old, young, in between, and a working rate of 60% (because the other 40% are too old or too young or can’t/doesn’ t want to work) and pay everyone 1000$ as UBI. That would mean that a billion dollars has to be payed by 600.000 people, so every working citizen has to pay 1667$ to receive 1000$ in return. This means that working people don’t get a UBI because they have to pay more then they get.

      And those 1667$ taxes would only be for the UBI, meaning that the taxes would be much higher to pay for all the other costs that the state has.

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      • realitista@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        This is a vast oversimplification. A UBI could replace a vast amount of existing welfare programs in a much more efficient way which would have a fraction of the overhead. There are tons of other proposals to fund a UBI such as a negative interest rate. Likely there would be many sources of funding, including money which now goes to existing wasteful welfare spending.

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  • irmoz@reddthat.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Tax doesn’t finance spending. That national debt is owed to no one. Money is created out of thin air, my friend, and always has been since fiat money was introduced. When the government spends, they just adjust the number on their account; they’ve come right out and admitted this.

    “We can’t afford that” is a lie. They can afford absolutely anything, because they own the money, and they own the debt in that money - it’s a constructed fiction.

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    • DarkMetatron@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Printing large amounts of money out of thin air is a great way to turn a valuable currency into worthless Monopoly® money via inflation. That is basic economics. There are lots of examples for that in history.

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      • irmoz@reddthat.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Inflation is not a guarantee, that depends on the actual economy. Japan is massively in deficit nd yet is seeing deflation.

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• ArtificialLink@yall.theatl.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  So you just have to give everyone universal income

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  • Kolanaki@yiffit.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    It’s not really universal unless you do.

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    • ArtificialLink@yall.theatl.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Then the shower thought is dumb suggesting giving it to only artists

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