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Chais@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

You’ll be surprised how resistant people are to learning something new.

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Mr_Blott@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
It’s extremely obnoxious to suggest that people don’t use Linux because they don’t want to learn something new. They don’t use it because there’s absolutely no need for them to do so when Windows is a fantastic OS for their needs

Even when you’re a bit more savvy it’s easy to configure Windows to your liking without all the bloat and spying

I’m perfectly happy programming a Pi for little projects so I know Linux wouldn’t be a problem for me, but I simply have no need for the hassle

Linux users are like militant vegans; they do more to put people off Linux than promote it

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- sadreality@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  
  Even when you’re a bit more savvy it’s easy to configure Windows to your liking without all the bloat and spying
  
  Bootlicker spotted.
  
  This has not been true since at least win10
  
  Try stopping start or search services from pinging daddy sataya microshit and see how that shit works for you
  
  Also, they revert privacy settings after updates.
  
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  - Mr_Blott@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    👆
    
    Linux users are like militant vegans; they do more to put people off Linux than promote it
    
    You sound like a 12 year old
    
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    ichbinjasokreativ@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Least insane windows fanboy
    
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- SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  
  militant vegans
  
  Well, then don’t. But don’t be surprised when things keep getting worse.
  
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- namingthingsiseasy@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  
  They don’t use it because there’s absolutely no need for them to do so when Windows is a fantastic OS for their needs
  
  The issue has never been whether Windows is a good OS or not. Almost anything you can do with Linux you can also do with Windows[1]. The issue has always been the risk that Microsoft could pull the rug from under your feet and the fact that there’s nothing you can do about it as long as you’re on their platform. You can see all the bullshit that people have had to deal with in the past 10 years as the result of people being comfortable with taking that risk - shitty upgrades, telemetry, ads, and now this. And nobody even knows what other kinds of bullshit they’ll try to pull in the future.
  
  None of this to say that you have to choose one platform or another. Everything is a calculated risk. Use Windows if that’s what you want, but by this point, it’s clear that you will have to continue with putting up with more and more of this abusive behavior from Microsoft if that’s the choice that you’re making.
  
  [1]: This is somewhat starting to change though. These days, for a lot of programming- and data science-related tasks, Linux is starting to pull further and further ahead and Windows is becoming more and more unusable.
  
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- riskable@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  A Linux user watching someone use (and bitch) about Windows is like watching someone right click to copy & paste.
  
  If you know of a vast improvement, why would you keep the benefits of better things to yourself?
  
  Think about how often Windows users bitch about Windows. Think about how many zillions of things they bitch about and how many new things they find to bitch about all the time. Think about how many Windows users say things like, “I love this OS!” or, “This OS is so cool! Look what I can do!”
  
  Now think about how many Linux users you see bitching about Linux. Think about how many are super excited about it and how many instantly become, “fanatics” practically overnight.
  
  There’s a reason
  
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- andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  For me new Windows releases grow more annoying, slow and counter-intuitive. Switching PCs at work made it mandatory that I went through all ‘bad’ Windows, like Vista and 8, now on w10. Sure, XP-7-w10 weren’t\aren’t that bad, but they all feel worse than the previous one. Nevertheless, I could’ve sticked to one of them, get used to, no problem. But they all get outdated, can’t use X RAM, don’t have DirectX N, aren’t supported with security updates and are blocked from installing latest software.
  
  Configuring it was very limited too. In W10 I can’t call TotalCMD or other file manager instead of win expoler from other apps. It eats RAM like candies for no reason. Touchscreen interfaces with empty spaces and no right click are everywhere. Undoing telemetry and defender requires know-how or executing scripts, otherwise it’s bloated. Start up times aren’t the best too.
  
  Linux is a headache and it’s still far from a thing regular PC users would trust without a doubt to handle their usual tasks. The same state Windows slowly comes to, imho. But without being free and insanely customizable. The only things that I need to emulate are superproprietary DRMed products with no alternatives. They are a minority. Most users don’t need them, so they have one less argument against switching.
  
  That’s my personal account tho.
  
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- possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  When was the last time you used Linux on the desktop? It has come a long way and is getting better every month
  
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JasSmith@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I'm technical and I still prefer Windows at home. Linux, as great as it can be for development, is not great for everyone. It doesn't "just work." My favourite example of Linux not "just" working is when Linus tried to install Steam on Pop_OS. He accidentally nuked the entire desktop. I could have easily done the same if I wasn't paying careful attention. One should never, ever be able to destroy their OS by installing Steam. That's part of the issue. When things go wrong, all of the instructions which present on Google are people providing terminal commands. Unless one is very comfortable with using the terminal, they're going to be copying and pasting these commands in and hoping for the best. This is what went wrong for Linus. This is far worse than following GUI based troubleshooting techniques which guide the user through defined and safe resolutions.

This over-reliance on the terminal is pervasive, and I find myself having to use it for everything from basic OS configuration to software installation to software configuration to drivers to hardware installation and troubleshooting. Every year I boot up a new flavour just to see if things have improved, and they haven't. Ultimately Linux is built by developers, for developers. That's great, and it does many things really well. I've just come to accept that it doesn't do consumer stuff very well. It lacks the UX polish present in Windows and MacOS, and most consumers like that. It fails especially hard when it comes to gaming. I literally cannot install any of my Fanatec wheel/peddle/shifter peripherals in any distro. Only 18% of games on ProtonDB are Tier 1. Even of those, it doesn't guarantee a trouble-free experience. Half the top streamed Twitch games just don't run on Linux at all, or require absurd workarounds and suffer from terrible performance.

I'll keep using Linux for my home server, but it's along way from replacing my PC or laptop OS.

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- sanpo@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  There was nothing accidental about Linus. He did it on purpose, the system very clearly told him not to.
  
  And Proton works much better than you imply. I don’t know about their new “tiered” rating, but 29% games get Platinum rating. Besides that 36% have Gold, and nowadays more often than not that means the game simply just works.
  Trying to say “oh, but it doesn’t always work perfect!” is just nonsense.
  How many games work perfectly without any issues on Windows?
  
  And please don’t say anything about “UI polish” on Windows when it can’t even keep all its UI consistent - it’d be hilarious if it wasn’t so sad.
  
  And Twitch… almost every game in top #10 works perfectly without any troubles, so what’s your point exactly?
  
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  - z500@startrek.website ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I had the exact same thing happen to me once, except I didn’t get an ARE YOU ABSOLUTELY SURE warning. It just listed a bunch of packages like it always did, except this time it was listing packages it was about to remove, not packages that could be upgraded like it usually does. That was 8 years ago, so maybe they added the warning some time after that? But by that point I’d already dealt with enough issues that I just lost all motivation to use Linux as a desktop anymore. It’s just always something.
    
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  - JasSmith@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    
    There was nothing accidental about Linus. He did it on purpose, the system very clearly told him not to.
    
    No, the system asked him if he was sure he wanted to install Steam. He was.
    
    And Proton works much better than you imply. I don’t know about their new “tiered” rating, but 30% games get Platinum rating (top 1000 most popular titles by player count).
    
    You think telling players that 30% of their games are playable without issue is a benefit. What I read is that 70% of my games are not guaranteed to run.
    
    And please don’t say anything about “UI polish” on Windows when it can’t even keep all its UI consistent - it’d be hilarious if it wasn’t so sad.
    
    I’m not sure how you can compare different menu styles with allowing the entire OS to self destruct. That’s quite the disingenuous comparison.
    
    And Twitch… almost every game in top #10 works perfectly without any troubles, so what’s your point exactly?
    
    Of the top 10 video games playes on Twitch right now, these games either don’t run at all, or Proton reports game-breaking issues:
    
    EA Sports FC 2024
    
    Valorant
    
    Fortnite
    
    GTAV
    
    Apex Legends (Linux players keep getting banned
    M
    
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    themoonisacheese@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    No, the steam install failed, and he went looking for solutions and one of the potential solutions he found literally says “proceeding might break your system, continue?” And he said yes. The thing that broke his system had nothing to do with steam apart from being recommended by someone somewhere to fix the issue he was having.
    
    Also you can very much play GTA V on Linux.
    
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    sanpo@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    It’s pretty clear you’re doing your best to misrepresent the reality, so arguing any further is useless…
    
    Check you facts, see what Linus really did, as a self-proclaimed technical person you should be able to understand very clear warnings he ignored after running random commands he didn’t understand.
    
    What I read is that 70% of my games are not guaranteed to run.
    
    Maybe read again. 75% of the most popular games on Steam have at least Gold rating, which means they have minor glitches or need trivial workarounds.
    
    That’s quite the disingenuous comparison.
    
    You’ve brought up the point about UI polish.
    You’re the one trying to compare UI polish to ignoring simple warnings.
    Breaking your system on purpose does not quality as self-destruct.
    
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  - deleted@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Happend to me without any warning.
    
    I wanted to uninstall icons from the GUI and it did remove all desktop environment.
    
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- solivine@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I also do programming and am fairly used to the terminal, and I still have a headache when thinking of going back to linux, because even when I want to do something as simple as watching netflix on firefox I had to go through a maze of troubleshooting via the terminal to get the correct packages installed. I can’t imagine what someone who isn’t tech savvy who tries to switch to linux would do.
  
  The user experience on linux and its distributions just aren’t there for the everyday user, and until they are, windows will always be the preferable choice because it actually works. You don’t have to end up having a dispute with it on some arbitrary software download because it doesn’t quite like it, and have to wrangle through many software alternatives that aren’t always available or even anywhere near feature ready because they aren’t available on the platform.
  
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- themoonisacheese@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Linus fucked up his os by entering the command that prompted him “are you absolutely sure this is what you want to do? if you don’t know, then it isnt.” and presed yes. windows does the same when doing a factory restore, if you click “yes i’m sure” then that’s on you. yes, ideally steam worked and he wouldn’t have had to try to fix it, but that kind of thing happens all the time on all software, linux just gives you the option of fixing it yourself instead of going “welp i’m not using that”.
  
  this fix-it yourself mode of functionning is really what sets it apart from other OSes, for examp,e if you have a windows problem good luck finding anything beyond “have you tried dism /online?”, which by the way is also a console command and is like the very first step in all windows troubleshooting.
  
  as for gaming, I daily drive debian and i’m not really encountering any setbacks beyond the obvious “this game developpers is incapable of making a linux anti-cheat so it won’t run on there at all” problem, or its cousin “this game developper is incapable of going into their EAC dashboard and click ‘enable linux support’” (yes, it is that easy, i have done it personally).
  
  Also worth mentionning that Linus is accused by ex-employees of misconduct, and is generally an asshat when it comes to technology despite being a technology reviewer.
  
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  - skyspydude1@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    And see, this is the kind of bullshit response that drives home why, even using it for a ton of things myself, I absolutely hate having to use Linux. Any time you ever encounter a problem, you always get the absolute shittiest responses imaginable from people. It’s always your fault for being such a filthy uneducated peasant, and never the OS’s for being incredibly unintuitive and esoteric at times.
    
    “How do I do ‘thing’?” invariably receives a response of “What kind of fucking idiot are you for wanting to do ‘thing’? No one should ever do ‘thing’. Thread closed”
    
    After using Windows for nearly 25 years at this point and doing thousands of installs, do you know how many times I’ve encountered some basic thing that’s utterly broken, and hasn’t been fixed by one of the basic commands like dism or some other relatively painless fix? I can probably count it on a single hand. Do you know how many times I’ve used even very “friendly” distros of Linux and spent at least tens of hours having to fix something that completely shit the bed after doing something basic like Linus did? Damn near every single time.
    
    Here’s the thing: I don’t mind dealing with those issues (aside from any time I have to ask questions, see the aforementioned community behavior), because I like fixing things and appreciate the incredible power and flexibility Linux offers, hence why I use it for my dev machine, homelab setup, etc. But 99.9% of the population is never going to put up with that shit, and the insanely toxic community doesn’t help things either.
    
    Also, nice ad hominem there. I had no idea that being a shitty person made it okay for the OS to nuke the desktop environment when trying to install Steam. I guess if it only happens to asshats, then it’s totally okay then.
    
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    HafizMuhammad@mastodon.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    @skyspydude1
    Trying to spread some FUD towards Linux and the Linux community, are you?
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  - JasSmith@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    
    Linus fucked up his os by entering the command that prompted him “are you absolutely sure this is what you want to do? if you don’t know, then it isnt.”
    
    From his perspective, he was sure he wanted to install Steam. I don’t understand why you find that confusing. It’s only people with experience who understand that that message might indicate a system incompatibility, and it might nuke the OS. IMHO, no consumer OS should ever run the risk of being broken by installing Steam. There is no excuse for that.
    
    No, this kind of thing doesn’t happen all the time on Windows. There’s no way to nuke Windows by installing Steam.
    
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  - solivine@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    The thing with your first statement is there’s so many times dealing with software when you are meant to just click ‘yes I’m sure’ that I’ve become desensitised to those warnings.
    
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- Crackhappy@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I only use my over speed PC for one thing. Gaming. I’ve looked into going to Linux and shuddered at the immense trouble trying to make it work for me. I’m with you in that I have the knowledge, having used it for a couple decades, but I just don’t care to put myself through mountains of bullshit for an idea.
  
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- Wild_Mastic@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  This is actually funny because I installed steam on pop os without issues. That said, sometimes it freeze my whole pc and I have to hard reboot it (idk why)
  
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  - Mr_Blott@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    
    idk why)
    
    Precisely
    
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- PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks [bot] ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
  
  when Linus tried to install Steam on Pop_OS.
  
  Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
  
  I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
  
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dinckelman@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
This has always been the truth. People don’t switch to something just because, unless you’re just naturally adventurous like me. A lot of individuals will drown on a sinking ship, just because learning something new takes more effort, than they’re willing to put in

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- Album@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  
  unless you’re just naturally adventurous like me
  
  LMAO
  
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- Sweetpeaches69@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  People like you are the reason I haven’t tried Linux.
  
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- ChrisLicht@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I’m not up my own ass enough to proudly declare myself “naturally adventurous,” but I have stayed at a few Holiday Inn Expresses in other towns before. I use Debian and Ubuntu somewhat regularly, but mostly use Windows and MacOS in daily life, and I don’t understand where the “sinking ship” metaphor comes in. Microsoft will attempt this recurring-revenue monetization, and it will either be successful, or it won’t; Windows won’t go away if it isn’t. Otherwise, Apple prints money from its beautifully made consumer-friendly hardware, which also features shockingly good in-house silicon.
  
  No ships are sinking. This isn’t some grand narrative where Linux awaits us all at the end of personal-computing history.
  
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SterlingVapor@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
That’s not the problem… The problem is Linux isn’t “normal”. Their work laptop comes with Windows or osx. Their home computer comes with the same.

Now go tell the average person to install Linux… To them, you might as well be telling them to open up their computer and snip a jumper to make their computer faster. To them, you’re telling them to take their working computer and do something they don’t really understand and is beyond their ability to undo.

It’s an aftermarket modification to them. If you want to make Linux approachable, it’s really damn simple. Hand them a computer running Linux, with a pretty desktop manager, and a GUI for everything you expect them to do with it. Better yet, add an app store so they can try out software and run updates without feeling intimidated

My point is, if manufacturers start selling Linux machines again, a lot of people will get on board

People aren’t opposed to learning, they’re just scared of breaking it, and they need to at least be able to use a web browser without going up a learning curve

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