Comment on The Browser Wasn’t Enough, Google Wants To Control All Your Software
blitzen@lemmy.ca 6 months agoYou can stop using all Google products. Now I understand their market share on the web means they’re going to continue to shape the web.
But make no mistake. There is something however, small that you can do. De-Google.
The only people who can de google are basically single shut ins with a job that doesnt use anything google.
If you have kids or a company that uses google products. It’s a bad fucking joke to talk like it’s even a realistic option.
Google is basically shoved down your throat. In most cases by the law literally.
De-googling will break banking apps, since most baking apps rely on Play Integrity checks and bootloader status.
I feel like this isnt always true. I had a GrapheneOS pixel for a while and it never had problems with banking apps
GrapheneOS, so far, is Pixel-only. Degoogled, yes, but you’re still giving your money to Google, and a lot of it.
Then don’t use the apps? Do your banking through the browser.
What a pompous and clueless suggestion. Some modern internet banks are app-olny.
Good luck with your revolution where 10 people are able to participate.
That’s barely a viable option without using apples own walled garden.
You can stop using all Google products.
My public school – that my children are basically required by law to attend, remember – is badgering me to sign a consent form so they can have Chromebooks.
This fight is a lot fucking larger than mere individual boycotts!
And my kids school requires every parent to have a Google account to track progress and share information.
Earlier in my school years, we had to use Microsoft Office products. Then later on we were expected to use Google Drive, as they wanted to teach us what we can use without paying Microsoft.
At one point it was also mandatory to have a blog because the teacher was big on Web 2.0, and they of course pushed blogspot (Google). I think I went with managed wordpress instead, but may remember wrong.
What happens if you refuse?
They probably would have to find accommodation for you, although I’m sure it’d be very inconvenient. But still technically there.
As to if you refuse to have your child be issued a Chromebook and Google account, probably not much you can do, as they are providing everything.
My personal answer to this question is the same as if it were an employer issued mandatory Chromebook; me the employee (or my child the student) is a different entity than me the individual. Me the individual refuses to have anything to do with Google, and that’s enough of a fight for me.
They kill you!
cant you give your child a cheap laptop, or they require thier inhouse shitty ones, use only?
I don’t know yet; I’m about to email the media coordinator to find out what happens when I refuse to sign the form.
My kids already have Raspberry Pi 400s (might upgrade them to 500s soon), and I have about half a dozen other computers (not including old retired stuff or my pile of other Raspberry Pis), all running Linux. This house is not at all lacking in technology, and I no longer tolerate proprietary shit in it.
What’s really fucked up is that the school district makes all these decisions basically unilaterally – not just for Chromebooks, but for other proprietary nonsense like ClassDojo and Remind and MySchoolBucks – and just assumes every parent will be cool with unquestioningly entering contracts with all these third-party entities. And even worse, most parents are cool with it!
As someone from Russia, I grew up seeing movies where you all over there sue each other over unfortunate rude word.
Perhaps that last paragraph is where you really should try suing someone, no jokes.
its probably datamining material for google and all these propietary companies.
At the highschool I went to, there was some standardized testing (act, ap tests) done in locked down software installed on the chromebooks. Like instead of logging into your user, it was before login with no browser or anything. It sometimes let you have desmos and a small place to take notes.
they mustve started using chromebooks in the 2010s, we dint have any of that nonsense in the 2000s, although it was not much better otherwise.
They require that the kids use the Chromebooks and use Google accounts.
Mine too, so I do agree with you the issue is larger.
But I believe it can start with individual boycotts.
Honestly Googles products are terrible these days. I have been pretty lax about my privacy but after so much enshittification I switched my services to something that works and doesn’t harvest my data for the privilege.
When they kill off Graphene/Custom ROMs I’ll switch to a linux phone or brickphone.
You can stop using all Google products.
That may be true for you, but other people face different realities. When Google implements the sideloading block it will eventually be pushed to everyone who doesn’t use a custom ROM.
Yes, many at risk programs and housing programs and even Medicare and Medicaid provide phones and other devices to members and those device contracts with Google or via a cellular provider are for hundreds of thousands to millions of people depending on the state or federal program doing the purchasing. There isn’t a reality where those contracts will ever not be for first party devices. Even if we wanted to we couldn’t buy people one plus or other non-Google branded android devices and laptops in these programs because the companies selling them don’t meet various regulatory standards required by the programs.
These people are literally the most at risk and don’t get individual choice for their devices. The devices are being provided in the first place because too many modern systems require internet and phone access. Id.me, login.gov, MFA for your library app, your epic or Athena portals for healthcare, etc…
I wonder if it’s economically plausible to make a FPGA-based all-in-one system. In a “smartphone” box, maybe far weaker than most Android phones, but far less tall in expertise needed to do anything, for a low start to be possible without humongous investment and expected minimal parties. Something graphical Lisp-based as an OS. Perhaps with an interface to use it as a tablet when attached to a bigger box, or a laptop when attached to that box.
Focusing on having the necessary modules and input-output devices, with the FPGA itself being configured with something simple-enough RISC-V based with tagged memory, for example.
Like when you need a portable computer with cell connectivity and a battery, and want to have some choice, but are not too attached to specific platforms and popular places.
It seems that for militaries using FPGA is already an established practice, turns out to be more convenient and even cheaper. And with anything trying to fight big companies, it seems using FPGA will make more sense.
I mean, Sun Tzu wrote about “when you know your enemy and know yourself”, all that. Knowing myself I’m certain that trying to take on anyone bigger and smarter than me using things on their level of complexity is a failure from the start. Knowing them is beyond my ability in general, but we definitely know that those companies are led by very intelligent people who just won’t make the simpler kind of mistakes. And he also wrote a bit on the “death grounds”, where if you leave a path for retreat, that’s not a death ground. I think paths for retreat like alternative Android versions and such are all intentionally let be, so that you’d not resist too much.
Or, this is sort of a fewer dream, or bipolar psychosis to be more specific.
also not everyone is saavy enough to use obscure services too.
Not everyone cares enough to avoid Google. Some of us that do are related to them.
I was thinking of switching to Proton. I pay $2 a month for 100gb and unlimited photos on Google. It’s a good deal. The fact that I would have to find out out to make a server, buy storage, piece meal a bunch of open source software that will inevitably not work without tinkering all makes it so easy just to pay the $2 a month.
Once I moved away from Gmail cutting off Google services became easy along with finding alternatives. Even if I use Google products like YouTube I can do it without an account with stuff like freetube to have a subscription feed locally and be able to save playlists and keep track of watch history.
So yeah even if Google products are used it becomes less account dependent, so you need a Google account less and less. And changing to a non Gmail email provider was the gateway.
i pay $20 a year for basically all of that and even more stuff but open source provided and maintained by a local server company in my country. of course i don’t use half of their offerings because some stuff has alternatives more suited for the platform or its simply not needed. but e.g. their service offers nextcloud which has most of the stuff you listed bundled into the platform by default. and then they have another 50 services added on top available for use.
De-Google
The complaint is side loading is being restricted and the only long term alternative Apple. Google already began the process of shutting down Graphene by cutting drivers out of AOSP.
Hang on, as somebody who knows enough to be looking into switching to graphene, but not entirely enough to know what AOSP is, what exactly is happening?
Am I going to fuck myself over? If I do end up switching to a custom rom? Should I just wait on the Linux community to build something better?
All I want is a working device that isn’t selling all my shit to Mark Zuckerberg
If you get a device and install Graphine now, it should be fine. It’s your future device options that will probably not include an AOSP alternative os. Hopefully Linux will be an option then, but there might be a bit of a dark age in between.
You will have years of Graphene so don’t worry about what might happen in the future.
G is restricting the factory images/source (I believe) that graphene uses to build their system, so they are having to work backwards, take more time, etc. It’s a shitty thing to do but afaik it’s not a blocker. I’m typing this on a gos pixel 8 pro right now.
Linux phones are still in their infancy, and are pretty shit if you need anything more than the ability to call and text (sms) on specific carriers (limitations applies to the USA, AUS, and a couple more I believe). I have a pinephone 1st gen and it’s… Cool for messing with, absolutely, but jesus christ it’s painful to actually attempt to use. I bought that 3y ago and not much has changed, from videos I’ve seen (my pinephone screen is lifting and failing so…). From a developer - like, bringing Linux to the phone platform - sure, grab one. As a user, unless you understand that you very likely will not daily this device (or any similar device) because shit just doesn’t work/isn’t ready and are OK with that… No, don’t. A few more years, maybe.
GrapheneOS is still moving ahead albeit slower, as you said. They are also working on a deal with a phone manufacturer to bring a more secure phone to market. I dunno whether it will just meet the same security levels of the Pixels and ship with stock Android, or if it will be a full GrapheneOS Phone. I'm hoping for the latter, but it will more likely be the former. Fingers crossed.
Uhh… how do we stop using Android? I mean, these recent attacks by Google seem like they’re going to break GrapheneOS and friends, no?
What I wouldn't give for a very simple linux phone. Not android based. That I can call/message from.
While pretty neat, I’d have a hard time even calling the WiPhone a phone if it doesn’t have a cellular modem. You’re entirely dependent on having a wifi connection. I suppose it could serve as a replacement for a landline, but that’s about it.
Yep! Its so close.
Looks like they had plans for LTE. Dunno how hard it is to ser up. Probably very hard.
No idea.
Sent from my iPhone.
Oh, thank god Apple lets users install whatever software they want—hey, wait a minute…
The question wasn’t how to switch OSs without losing current capabilities, it was how to stop using Android. Switching OS is how.
Losing side loading is something being lost either way.
Now that AOSP is closing, what are we supposed to do?
AOSP is not closing, the device trees for all older pixels are still there
Obviously, Linux.
I will help hand hold anyone who wants to build servers or services (to the best of my ability) to replace Google services with their own.
Email? Its about the only thing leaving me on googles platform ATM. I can self host (with mailinabox) but....I kinda dont want to? Its so much work and I would rather do other things with my time.
I really like Runbox. Nothing particularity fancy, just pure standards compliant email, with excellent reputation, for a very low cost. They have a “drive” too.
There’s also mailbox.org, tuta, the upcoming “thunder mail”, proton, fast mail, probably your domain provider or VPS provider offers email as an add on. Consider paying for a email and a domain. It can be as low as $30 a year, and you become the customer instead of the product. Owning your identity.
I use my web host for email. I looked into hosting it myself but it looked way too fragile. The service is included with the website so it’s not like I’m spending any extra money that I wasn’t going to already…
Maybe porkbun if you just need email?
But Porkbun charges per mailbox.
I pay for Tuta, and I have added my personal domain. It works as catch-all, allowing me to have an infinite amount of addresses, so I can use a different email on each website.
I wouldn’t self host email. But I would pay for a host and get away from Gmail. Wait until Black Friday and get free/cheap services from a bunch of places. Maybe even proton if you’re okay with them. Also, using your own domain for email is pretty cool (to me).
Mozilla foundation is putting together a paid product under the Thunderbird brand. Folks are excited for that, the Firefox people are good people.
Got any advice on alternatives to Drive? I keep considering nextcloud, but people I know have said it’s a resource hog and finicky at best.
I run Nextcloud inside a VM, running on a decade+ old Intel gen 3 computer and the interface is snappier than navigating around google drive.
It is finickier to self-host than syncthing though, if all you need is sync. There are also tones of providers out there that will sell you Nextcloud or similar services.
Sign up for 10 different free accounts of Proton Drive? It has 5gb free cloud storage.
Though I always prefer the simple physical backup to SD card and backup to PC.
I also have a simple sshd server and use sftp when I’m feeling frisky.
Sending from any device to any device using KDE connect is good too.
You’ve got some good suggestions, I think most of the suggestions I can think of. Nextcloud is of course the big one but after using it for quite a while, I think it’s important to break down your needs. If you need file sharing/syncing only, there are better options that are easier and faster. If you only need chat/voice, rocket chat is really lightweight and easy. If you need file sharing, online office suite, chat, etc. Then Nextcloud is the right option. Just keep in mind, even if you think you need some of those things, will anyone but you ever actually use them? No, they won’t, because they don’t appreciate how cool it is to self host and how much effort you put into it.
The UI is a little crazy but I am a big fan of copyparty. I have moved my entire family off of Google Drive and we use copyparty, and it works great. Uploads are fast, lots of features, easy to stand up and doesn’t consume lots of resources. But like I said, the UI could be better.
It’s very young and got very popular suddenly, someone will make a nice stable UI for it at some point…
Seafile is an alternative: www.seafile.com/en/product/seafile_on_premise/
I haven’t tried it. Seems to be more efficient than Nextcloud. It also has way less features. So. 🤷
I moved to pCloud + Cryptomator for general cloud file storage and Cryptpad for online document editing. These cover some of the main functions of Google Drive.
people I know have said it’s a resource hog and finicky at best
Those people may be the kind who tell you formatting your hard drive and reinstalling windows every other week is the best way to keep it ‘clean’.
Ive been using Nextcloud at multiple businesses for years, its a rock.
Nextcloud definitely seems solid… but let’s be honest, it is definitely a resource hog. I tried deploying NextCloud on a VPS with 2GB of RAM, with most features turned off. The instance was empty. After a few minutes, I started getting alerts that I was using 100% of my memory.
Nextcloud isn’t gonna work the way you expect it to with 2GB of RAM. It doesn’t seem like you’d be able to run this on some cheap, low powered device.
Someone rewrite it in Rust! 😅
Syncthing
This is the answer unless you consider setting up a DIY home server fun, which often the kinds of people who recommend options for this kind of thing do… so just keep that context in mind here with recommendations.
Syncthing is a great solution and it is wayyyyy less a headache than any other DIY method I have done for replacing cloud/filesharing purposes.
If you’re looking to self-host, nextcloud is the way go. But if you’re just looking for a drive alternative, there’s plenty of simpler alternatives, like proton or kdrive.
Bewcloud?
There are a lot of alternatives out there. What service or services are you stuck on?
For me, MitID in Denmark. 100% required for society and life here, requires Google Play Services now :(
I tried e/os on my Fairphone for a bit. I think I could make it all work okay enough besides that. I should write people at the government or something I guess?
Also, only officially browser for MitID is fucking Chrome. Always works with Firefox or libreWolf, though. However, I have contacted MitID two times about issues. They are always referring that I should look at the help page supported OS/browser blah blah. They don’t care about the part of the population that doesn’t use Chrome. Ironic that the same government now screams and shouts about how we have become too reliant on US big tech… Idiotic tech noob politicians.
Don’t use the app then? I have a key thing which works quite well. www.mitid.dk/en-gb/…/mitid-code-display/
Yes! Being active politically is always important.
Be civil and polite at first, you want these people on your side after all. But don’t be afraid to hold back if they respond with bullshit either. They are your representative, make them represent you and hold them to account if required.
Encouraging friends and family to write is usually a good idea too.
Not being politically engaged, I feel, is one of the main reasons for the downfall of democracy throughout the globe. Too many people think ticking a box every 4-5 years is all they need to do.
I’ve never heard of that, so I looked it up. There definitely appear to be non-Google alternatives.
I don’t know myself, but Graphene OS (on Google Pixel phones) has a pretty impressive sandbox layer for the play store and the apps it installs. It might be worth looking into if you’re not aware of it currently. (But if you’re aware of the Fairphone, I’m guessing you probably know about Graphene).
dreugeworst@lemmy.ml 6 months ago
if I don’t use android or iOS, I can’t use my banking apps, pay with my phone, access government services as they require an app to sign in, etc. it’s just not doable anymore for me
blitzen@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
Ignoring the fact that iOS is an option, I bet you’re mostly mistaken and there is a web based or non app option for everything, even if it’s not obvious.