Comment on I never realized this

lugal@sopuli.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

• daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  On Spain we have two last names, one for the father other for the mother.

  And while before the father’s was always the first, since many years couples of newborn babies can choose the order of the surnames.

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  • lugal@sopuli.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Is the latter your mother’s first or second last name?

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    • daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      First last name. Example:

      Mother: Maria García Perez

      Father: Juan Rodríguez Domínguez

      Their kids can be named:

      Adela García Rodríguez

      or

      Adela Rodríguez García

      Ans once selected and order with the first kid all the kids from the same couple must follow the same order.

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      • lugal@sopuli.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        So it’s the mother’s father’s name, or the names of both grandfathers. Still patrilineal

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• dingus@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Yeah I’ve always thought it was weird that women are supposed to give up their identity to a man to be married. I’m not really sure why hyphenated names aren’t as popular in the western world or why people don’t occasionally chose to take the woman’s name. I know that women don’t have to change their names, but then often you’ll have the kids as the same name as the father anyway but not the mother. So I’ve heard many women say that they did it so their kids would share their last name.

  Hell, I don’t even like my father. But my name is who I am and I like it.

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  • Lauchmelder@feddit.org ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    with hyphenated names: what would the children do then? you can’t keep adding more and more names like that (both practically and legally in some cases). serious question because I’ve also thought about that

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    • dingus@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I think it varies with culture, but from my understanding, usually they take the first name of the two hyphens for their own marriage.

      So you have John Doe and Jane Smith. They hyphenate their names as Doe-Smith and the children do as well.

      Say they have a daughter Sally Doe-Smith who meets Tim Johnson-Star. So they marry and hyphenate their names as Johnson-Doe.

      Yes, in examples like this, it still ends up as getting rid of the maternal aspect of it in the end…but the point is still that both parties are keeping part of and changing another part of their names. It’s not an all or nothing total switch of identity. The lineage is male, but the here and now is an equal compromise of identity.

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      • trolololol@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Not enough to balance things out

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    • trolololol@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      You clearly haven’t met Brazilians

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    • JimVanDeventer@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_blending

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    • phcorcoran@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      In Canada, you legally pick up to 2 of your parents’ last names for your last name

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      • uis@lemm.ee ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        In Soviet Russia you pick a last name. Any last name. Except containing numbers, non-letter, more than one hyphen, rank or job title.

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    • LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      My name is Maximus Decimus Arnold Garfield Butcher Smith Hendrickson Meridius, and you shall have my name.

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  • countrypunk@slrpnk.net ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    The way that I’m gonna do it is whoever has the coolest/most unique last name is the one whose name is adopted. If they’re both equally cool, then hyphenated it is.

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  • uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    It is weird because we as a civilization believe women are persons and corporations are not. And sooner or later, molotovs will be theown in support of this notion, since silence is being interpreted as consent.

    Whoops. That was my outside voice.🪀🪀💣🪀

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    • dingus@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Sorry I’m not understanding what you mean

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      • uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        The reason women take their husband’s name is because they’re property, and rights to their person transfers from their father to their husband.

        That’s it.

        And right now (at least in the States, maybe in some parts of Europe) there are large far-right movements trying to return society to those days.

        Find your crew or your fam, and have them give you your given name. Then choose your surname. Break free.

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  • lightnsfw@reddthat.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    How do hyphenated names work after the next generation? Seems like that would get out of hand quickly when people with hyphenated last names start having kids with each other.

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    • Default_Defect@midwest.social ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      “Gifting” kids with absurdly long names isn’t new.

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  • LesserAbe@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Hyphenated names are too long. One of my good friends has one and people just refer to him and his siblings by the initials of their last name, like “Tim MP”

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  • shalafi@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Been divorced twice, neither of them gave much of a shit and never changed their surname back. My wife’s Filipino and was very proud to take my surname. Ran right out and changed all her documents. That was nice!

    I’m in the opposite place! Met my dad when I was 20 and he really wanted me to change to his surname. Sorry dad, that would have felt really weird.

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  • varyingExpertise@feddit.org ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    So, just do what a few couples in my circle of friends did and use her last name after marriage?

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    • dingus@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I would think it would be just as weird to collectively switch to matronymic last names as a society. It would make more sense to me if couples just decided which name they liked better and went with that, be it coming from the man or woman. So a more even split of that sort of pattern is what I mean.

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      • varyingExpertise@feddit.org ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Yeah, that’s what people do here in Germany.

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• Rooty@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Unpopular opinion: Patriarchy as defined by feminists is a nebulous and unfalsifiable concept that can be replaced by “the devil” without changing the meaning of the sentence it’s used in.

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  • spujb@lemmy.cafe ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    yep and it’s good that opinion stays unpopular

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  • shneancy@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    you could swap the subject of criticism with “the devil” in any sentence and it would be the same though?

    “the devil (covid-19) caused a pandemic”

    “the devil (billionaires) is pushing more people into poverty”

    “the devil (adhd) is making me procrastinate doing the dishes”

    “the devil (you) has really weak criticisms of feminism, since if only he read about it, he’d realise he can see and feel the effects of the patriarchy everywhere. and the way he talks right now makes me believe he only knows the concept from strawman memes”

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    • spujb@lemmy.cafe ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      [deleted]

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      • lugal@sopuli.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Which feminists are you even referring to exactly? There are different waves of feminism and different strands (like liberal feminism, marxist feminism, black feminism, …). Either you picked a few straw(wo)men who have a shitty definition or you are confused by the variety of definitions and approaches and that confuses you.

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    • Rooty@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      In these examples you used “the devil” as a placeholder for explainable phenomena with varying causes, none of them being unfalsifiable. Now consider the following sentence:

      “The wage gap is causes by the patriarchy” – Surely there are no complex causes being substituted by a nebulous concept here, is it?

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      • shneancy@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        the concept is only “nebulous” to people who are talking out of their asses, when they haven’t even bothered to look past the word definition and strawman memes about the patriarchy

        man, please, stop making yourself look like a fool, go read about it, it’s really not that hard

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  • lugal@sopuli.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I donno but this sounds like something the devil would say

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• dandelion@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  is that an unpopular opinion, or just a well-known fact?

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  • lugal@sopuli.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Maybe all my downvotes come from people who say it’s the latter? I’ve been in bubbles that see it as a well known fact, I’ve talked to left leaning people who didn’t. Maybe it’s just a wording I used to attract attention, maybe not, we will never know for sure.

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    • dandelion@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      my instance doesn’t show downvotes, so all I see is that you have lots of upvotes 😊

      I suspect downvotes would come from people who disagree that marriage is patriarchal, tbh - I think a lot of people don’t really understand patriarchy or feminism, so they might thing you are being hyperbolic, like claiming marriage is akin to beating your wife or something.

      Or they could just be responding merely to the language and not even the content, i.e. by talking about patriarchy at all or posing it in social terms they might think you have been duped by woke propaganda.

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      • lugal@sopuli.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        my instance doesn’t show downvotes, so all I see is that you have lots of upvotes 😊

        In that case: the majority is still upvotes so I’m not complaining or anything :)

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      • SuperApples@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        I think the downvotes come from a semantic disagreement, based on a strong or weak definition of the word ‘inherent’.

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• tomi000@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Why would that be the case? How would marriage between two equals in a non-patriarchy be patriarchal? What about marriage between two women? What about last names in a society of beings without gender?

  I think you didnt mean ‘inherently’

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• bradd@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Okay well, whats the benefit to the male?

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  • spujb@lemmy.cafe ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    the patriarchy doesn’t benefit the male. in fact, most men are overall harmed by the forces of patriarchy.

    the goal of patriarchy is to subjugate and repress an “other,” that is, women. it’s true that patriarchy gives privelege to men, but equating privilege and benefit is to misunderstand the core components of the system.

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  • lugal@sopuli.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    An aspect of patriarchy is patrilineality. Belonging to your fathers lineage rather than your mother’s or even being stripped of your heritage and being a mere adjunct to your husband isn’t materially benefiting the man but lays the ground for that

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• ameancow@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  [deleted]

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  • shalafi@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Sigh. Lemmy in a nutshell.

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  • lugal@sopuli.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Except that it’s older than that, even in Europe, there was quite some time between the Black Plague and capitalism. But they originate in China where they are much older. Sure, capitalism is composed of many aspects and maybe China had some aspect associated with capitalism back than as well and I’m not too sure about the connection between Europe and China regarding last names. I donno.

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    • spujb@lemmy.cafe ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      In The Second Sex, De Beauvoir quotes Engels as he argues that patriarchy (as we know it today) likely arose with the advent of private property. So there is some relation to capitalism (of which private property is a core component), but it goes back way further than the Black Plague and marking it down to “trade promotion” is over-simplistic at best in that it’s wayyyy worse than that.

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      • lugal@sopuli.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        What you are saying is that private property laid the basis for patriarchy and (much later) for capitalism

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  • spujb@lemmy.cafe ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    that’s right, promoting your trade is capitalism folks

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