Submitted 11 months ago by USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website to risa@startrek.website
https://i.imgur.com/kUjS80M.png
The only issues I have (currently, until proven wrong) with DIscovery with the Spore Drive and other technological things, is that it didn’t seem to have an answer for why the Federation didn’t use it later. I do know that in the timeskip season, a log does not mention the use of the s-drive.
But man I can only imagine how pissed Admiral Janeway would have been to find out it exists.
Plus I can’t hate a show that has Doug Jones in it. I didn’t get into Discovery, but I don’t hate it.
it didn’t seem to have an answer for why the Federation didn’t use it later.
Well, you need to either find and enslave an exotic space tardigrade in order to navigate the network, or illegally splice said tardigrade’s DNA into your own.
And even then, navigation is pretty challenging, and can result in accidental time and/or interdimensional travel.
And a malfunction has the potential to destroy all life in the multiverse.
And both ships that had the prototypes installed were lost within about a year.
Take your pick, really.
For the reward of instantaneous travel, I’m sure the Federation could muddle its way through amending a 100 year old law. The rest of the points don’t seem all that different than the complications we see our heroes regularly encounter exploring the galaxy. And none of them were enough to convince the crew of the Discovery to stop using the spore drive for the rest of the series.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Discovery anyway. Trek is full of miracle technologies that go conveniently forgotten. Janeway has no reason to be miffed given that she sat on an infinite speed drive herself, which had no downside that the doctor wouldn’t have been able to cure after it took them home.
And a malfunction has the potential to destroy all life in the multiverse.
I didn’t like that part at all. An infinite multiverse, which they state in DSC is the case, means that anything with a probability greater than zero is guaranteed. Mathematically, the multiverse should have already been wiped out at some point. It’s also a throwaway line meant to increase dramatic tension for all of ten seconds before the scene ends, and an empty threat given that following through would end the show.
Yyyyyyeahhh genetic modification has been a BIG NO-NO in trek canon since the 1990s eugenics wars, right…?
Fair enough. Tho I’m sure Janeway would still consider using Tuvix for that one editing your DNA thing.
All the points I was about to make. Thank you Sir.
I can look past the mycelial network. I just can’t tolerate some of the characters. And unfortunately they decided to focus on one main character. And that character’s main feature is to cry throughout the entire series, despite being raised by vulcans. Also the pacing of the show is very annoying. It’s high tension drama, all the time.
I watched the whole thing. There were some episodes that kinda gave me hope. Those usually were the ones that weren’t part of the main plot. But the next episode it went back to the same dramatic formula.
Oh, and Tilly. What the hell man? How did she get into Starfleet??
That said, I’m happy people enjoy it! It’s just not for me.
All it would take is a Short Trek where someone rediscovers the network and encounters a group of advanced beings living there, who explain that it has been closed to current warp-capable beings because they have proven themselves not ready for the privilege yet.
Discovery was like Alexander the Great stumbling onto warp drive.
For that matter, they didn’t even use it well at the time. Their accuracy of jumping with the spore drive was shown to be good enough that they could jump inside the shield bubble of every Klingon supply base, launch a bunch of torpedoes, and get out. War = done.
I do seriously hate the spore drive though. The travel time is a huge part of what makes a Star Trek episode.
Depends on the episode.
When Quark is abducted from Deep Space 9 in “House of Quark” he’s taken clear across the entire Federation and into the Klingon Empire in about a day. And then D’Ghor sends someone to the station to grab Rom and get him back to Qo’noS the next day.
Trek moves at the speed of plot.
The travel time is a huge part of what makes a Star Trek episode.
It is almost never what makes part of a Star Trek episode. Not beyond “We’re far away from people for reasons”. Besides, a single ship having it and being able to be handicapped isn’t exactly something that suddenly shattered everything in Star Trek.
Gotta admit that introducing big fancy transwarp highway in a prequel wasn’t the most clever move…
It requires incredibly specific tech, a ship that has been designed for it, and generic engineering which is outlawed by starfleet. It is also insanely classified and had black badges posted on board.
Whether it’s a prequel or not is kinda irrelevant. Secrets are secrets.
Discovery also had hologram communication technology that I guess was also a secret? Starfleet went back to flatscreens for everything and didn’t use holograms again until the 24th century.
If it was just one thing, okay, but there were such numerous inconsistencies, it was like the writers and designers did not care about trek, they were writing a sci-fi show with the trek name slapped on top.
It’s totally possible to respect the heritage of old sci-fi - look at The Mandalorian and Andor - maintaining consistency with the old retro sci-fi aesthetic actually elevates them above what a modern redesign would have done.
That’s all well and good for the lore, but it doesn’t make it feel any less like a way of getting out of the corner they wrote themselves into. It would also probably be little comfort for the version of the Voyager crew that took something like 70 years to get home.
I’ve enjoyed Discovery. Not as much as other series, but I have enjoyed it. I still think the spore drive is a story that should’ve been told later in the timeline, though.
Pssssh, I bet these people don’t even realize that reversing the quantum polarity in the nacelles is absolutely a hard science solution to whatever problem the enterprise faces.
(Please don’t verbally hit me for that sentence.)
It’s a perfectly cromulent sentence.
I don’t like Discovery because of the nonsense with the Klingons. I don’t know why they changed their look again, but mostly I like to be able to do other things when watching TV, like cleaning up or making food, and hate the subtitles.
I understand if I’m watching a movie and a scene takes place in France with a bunch of Frenchmen speaking in French accents that “in universe” they are actually speaking French and it’s being translated to English for my benefit. The long drawn out subtitled scenes just killed the show for me. Give me a dubbed Discovery and I’ll happily give it a go.
Traveller sends the ship at Mach Jesus with his mind? Not a problem.
Stamets pilots the ship through the Mycelial Network using his mind? PROBLEM
Q did it? Seems fine
I think the big difference is that this is Federation science, not super-being using their superpowers. I like Discovery, as you know, but I think they could have done a lot to handle the idea that no one else has ever used the mycelial network again, not even 900 years in the future, better. I think they could, at the very least, have come up with an explanation for why no other non-Federation empire- not the Klingons or the Romulans or the Cardassians or the Borg or anyone else- ever made the same discovery despite being at basically the same technological level or, in the case of the Borg, at an even higher level. They didn’t, but I think they should have. Maybe they will in the new season, but I have a feeling they won’t. It by no means ruins Discovery for me, but it could have been handled better.
Discovery, in a way, seems to take place in its own universe. All the other new series seem to ignore the Discovery Klingon look, for instance. In Picard, Worf looked like Worf. In SNW, Klingons in the musical episode looked like TNG Klingons.
I realize it would create continuity problems, especially with Pike, but it wouldn’t kill me if they decided by the end of the show that it took place in an alternate universe like the Kelvin movies did.
I genuinely don’t get why people are bothered by others not using it. The tech was made insanely classified and the only two people who ever conceived of the idea are dead. Mentioning of the spore drive was made essentially punishable by death and it was left forgotten to history. Stamets and Straal were never working on it as a propulsion method. They were working on it as an idea in general. Starfleet was the ones that co-opted their really niche research and then classified it to the highest level because they were desperate. The Klingons and the Romulans weren’t ever at that state of desperation like the Federation was and if there’s one thing that we’ve seen throughout Trek is that humans excell at pulling things out of their ass when times are beyond perilous. That’s our gimmick.
I realize it would create continuity problems, especially with Pike, but it wouldn’t kill me if they decided by the end of the show that it took place in an alternate universe like the Kelvin movies did.
Note for below that I’m not projecting any of this onto you. After writing it it does feel kinda angry. The tone should be read with casual conversation, no hostility pointed towards you or your idea. Just my personal opinion on it. Sorry if it comes off abrasive because that is not the way I mean it.
I get where you’re coming from but I can’t think of a bigger insult than if CBS/Paramount were to do this. One of the loudest things from people who hate the show are those screaming that Discovery isn’t in the Prime Timeline. Started with Season 1 with people arguing that ‘CBS doesn’t own the rights to the prime timeline’ which was the dumbest fucking concept ever devised but ran like wildfire. That whole “It isn’t prime” thing still sticks. You see it from people who hate the show even here on Lemmy who refuse to believe that it’s canon and act like it isn’t. If they suddenly ended the show with something that says it isn’t the prime timeline then ignoring the issues it makes for SNW/Lower Decks, they would literally be giving the rage baiting assholes everything they’ve ever wanted. They would bend over and say “Fine. You were right. It isn’t canon.” It would invalidate everything that came before it and make all the fans of the show like myself who’ve defended it feel like utter fools. Honestly if they ever did it? I would abandon Star Trek in its entirety. Would sell off my models, get rid of the flag, and eradicate Trek from my life. It would feel like a slap in the face to the fans to say “Hey, the trolls were right.”
I think the mushrooms almost feel too… mundane? The average person probably interacts with a lot more mushrooms than crystals. Crystals also have a long history of being associated with magical properties, and modern science has figured out some neat things that can be done with crystalline structures. We’re pretty primed for crystals doing cool stuff. Mushrooms have significantly less mysticism associated with them and related science is more biological than technological. That’s not really solidly in favor of one or the other, but it does mean the audience will more readily accept crystal hijinks with no warm up than mushroom hijinks with no warmup. The closest comparison to the mycelial network is Yggdrasil, which is solidly in the high fantasy category rather than sci-fi.
All that is to say, I think the mycelial network needed more time to set up than the show gave it. Some kind of foreshadowing, like simply mentioning something about advances in organic technology. Farscape probably would have been able to sell it pretty quick, but Farscape also has organic technology as a core part of the premise with Moya. Not an inherently bad concept, just kind of comes out of nowhere in the context of Trek.
Mushrooms have significantly less mysticism associated with them
Ah yes, psychedelics are famously not associated with mysticism.
The closest comparison to the mycelial network is Yggdrasil, which is solidly in the high fantasy category rather than sci-fi.
The closest comparison is actual fungal networks that exist beneath forests supporting life through the transference of nutrients and biochemical communication, are some of the largest organisms on the planet, and are actual nonfiction science.
All that is to say, I think the mycelial network needed more time to set up than the show gave it.
I think I can agree with you to some extent there. Stamets, by virtue of being standoffish and prickly when the character is introduced, is not the best at explaining things, and the concept could have used a better explanation early on to mitigate the response I’m complaining about with this post.
Star Trek TNG had a Space Loki on steroids driving key points of the plot so what’s the issue with a Space Yggrasil? Star Trek was never supposed to be hard sci-fi in the first place.
Concepts inspired by the idea of the World Tree are also common in other sci-fi works.
Dilithium=crack rock
I thought the issue with Discovery was that it was written like a schlocky action movie and the crew are constantly at each other’s throats
Schlocky action is a matter of opinion but the crew at each others throats thing is pure nonsense. That happened in the first two episodes. From then on there were occasional disagreements but that’s sort of expected. Constantly? That’s pushing it beyond it’s breaking point.
Here we have an example of the discovery crew going at each other’s throats. This poor Emperor just wants to rule and her second in command is always going after her. This is from season 3. Also I’m just being a smartass to tease Stamets.
It’s amazing, sometimes the complaint is that Disco is written like an action movie, and sometimes it’s that it’s written like a drama where the characters are overly emotional. I’m impressed that the writers have managed to create Schrodinger’s televisions show, where it’s in a quantum state of being whatever the person complaining about it needs it to be so long as they’re able to drive a narrative of it being bad.
Logic Extremists
I wouldn’t say they’re exactly logical…
I don’t pretend to be. It just strains my willing suspension of disbelief beyond the breaking point. I don’t even know why it’s the spore drive that does it instead of telepathy or fucking Q, but it is.
I’m not much of a fan of Discovery, as many Trek fans seem to be. It’s alright though. But this aspect I found myself enjoying. I liked the whole mycelium network angle.
Yeah, I like Disco because I think they’re at least trying to do something, and that’s interesting to me. They don’t always succeed, but I respect the attempt. However, I fully get why people don’t like it.
My issue is with the silly complaints, not what amounts to a matter of taste.
The only problem I had is it kind of gave me what I always wanted in more reoccuring trek plots from episode to episode like some of DS9 had but in giving me that it also gave CONSTANT DRAMA TO MICHAEL at like... all times, it just had to be what way cappy is set up to be the only one who can do it and then it's just another even more bigger mountain non stop with hardly any downtime. Jumping from persistant klingon threat, to bad AI, to bad future without much letup for downtime and moments to let the rest of the crew shine compared to other shows. Still it had some great visuals and ideals and interesting characters that totally needed more focus but thing is about to blow always.
I think I had a stroke.
thepreciousboar@lemm.ee 11 months ago
I feel like the problem with Discovery is the same of the warp 10 episode in Voyager. A bunch of people create the most OP way of travelling and barely use it, and don’t tell me that the ship is unique and Stamets is the only person in the universe in the following centuries to be able to use it, because that just doesn’t make any sense, it’s a cheap trick to justify why such an incredible technology has never been mentioned after, not even by a super villain that gives no crap about genetic augmentation.
At least with Voyager you could just write it off as a badly written episode, but you cannot ingore a whole series. Yes even TNG had some magical guy make the ship travel fantaszilion light years, but at least it was out of their control and they could not exploit it.
Also, Trek shows have not been the most consistent ever, but Discovery really went their way on completely distegarding every Star Trek lore existing in the first season which, personal theory, is a major reason for the writers to “get rid” of the ship at the end of season two. Discovery just did not make sense in the universe created by the othee series, to put it where it does no more damage.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 11 months ago
It could have been solved if they just decided that the mycelium network got destroyed. They could have had Control release a weapon that destroyed it or something. I agree, “never talk about this” doesn’t make sense when science progresses and someone else could have easily discovered it. And I’m guessing there were plenty of spies from Romulus and other such places that became aware of at least the basics of the spore drive.
I like Discovery a lot, but it was handled badly.
thepreciousboar@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Honestly, I liked it much more than I thought, given what I saw on YouTube before watching the entire season, especially the klingon battles. After season 1 it gets much better, which seems to be a recurring theme in Trek shows, but for a very different reason herr.
Altought I really don’t like most character (especially Burhnam) and I find most of the representation of seasoned officers overly dramatic and silly (looking at you Tilly), most of the themes are well treated and some episodes were particularly good (I enjoyed the mirror episodes more than I could think possible given the first episodes).
Sometimes it feels a very generic scifi show and it doesn’t get me too attached, but it’s a decent enough show to keep watching.
CeruleanRuin@lemmings.world 11 months ago
They couldn’t have destroyed the network, because it was strongly implied that it was a fundamental aspect of the universe itself. What would have been better is if some higher-dimensional beings living there said “You abused the privilege, and your rights to use this network have been revoked”.
porthos@startrek.website 11 months ago
That wasn’t really the reason, the reason wasn’t nobody else could figure it out or that nobody wanted to do it because it required genetic modification, the reason was that jumping on the mycelial network was actively killing it unless I am misremembering things which is in line with the rest of star trek’s ethos (how about the DS9 episode where they help the dominion destroy a trans warp gate for example? There are other technologies that are abandoned and hidden for the greater safety of the universe all over Star Trek, it can be really silly I agree but I don’t think discovery is unique here.
USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website 11 months ago
What specific lore has been disregarded?
thepreciousboar@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Everything about klingon for example, the spore drive itself. Even the uniforms!
CeruleanRuin@lemmings.world 11 months ago
The retcon is that the whole spore drive program was actively suppressed, because any knowledge of Discovery and/or Control would lead to cosmic apocalypse. And so part of Section 31’s imprimatur was to work behind the scenes and prevent it and other disruptive tech from seeing the light. And other civilizations did the same, because the same thing happened to them at some point in their history.
It’s pretty sweaty, and requires quite a bit of stretches credulity, but it beats a lazy handwave.
mosiacmango@lemm.ee 11 months ago
I assume the slore drive is in a wood box in section 31s “neato beans” warehouse next to Rikers “phase through matter and i guess go invisible whatever do what you want bro” cloak.
Kichae@lemmy.ca 11 months ago
I feel like the issue with Discovery is that it just shoe-horns in an overproduced and under considered last 2 episodes every season in the name of “stakes”.