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Google Flat-Out Refuses to Bargain With Workers, Prompting YouTube Music Strike

⁨1518⁩ ⁨likes⁩

Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨psychothumbs@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨technology@lemmy.world⁩

https://www.vice.com/en/article/k7zn5y/google-flat-out-refuses-to-bargain-with-workers-prompting-youtube-music-strike

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  • fubo@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    A Google spokesperson told Motherboard in a statement at the time of the unionization that it had “no objection to these Cognizant workers electing to form a union,” but that it would not bargain with them. “We are not a joint employer as we simply do not control their employment terms or working conditions—this matter is between the workers and their employer, Cognizant,” the spokesperson said.

    NLRB seems to disagree. This will be an interesting case, I suspect …

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    • plz1@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      So Google, like Amazon, is trying to play the “they work for a subcontractor that only supports us, so it’s their fault, not ours” card. I really want to see the NLRB smack this pattern down hard and set an example for all the other companies to try to avoid unionization by way of not directly hiring people.

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      • CheezyWeezle@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        NLRB changed their criteria for what is considered co-employment last month, widely broadening the definitions used to determine this status. Essentially, if a company has significant control (not just exclusive control) over any of a worker’s employment status or conditions, then they are considered a co-employer now. It used to be that a company needed exclusive or overriding control over another company’s employees to be considered a co-employer.

        I’m certain we are going to see more lawsuits and legal challenges from employees because of this. I’m pretty certain there already are lawsuits from some other Google contractors over this exact thing; they are providing a case that Google is their co-employer due to the control they have over every aspect of their work.

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      • The_Mixer_Dude@lemmus.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Doesn’t appear so, seems Google is okay with them unionizing. According to a ruling from a while back Google is required to bargain with the union just as much as cognizant is but it appears cognizant is the one which is unwilling to bargain with the workers. Google’s track record with workers leads me to believe that they have no issue with workers unionizing.

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    • gibmiser@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Megacorps can get fucked. Pay your employees well or deal with the consequences.

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    • nudnyekscentryk@szmer.info ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I want to, but I can’t shake off the feeling that Google does have a point here: it’s like requiring Amazon to bargain with DHL’s drivers. It’s kind of not their issue: they pay DHL for their services and DHL commissions their employees to do particular tasks.

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      • Blooper@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Yes, I think that’s the reasonable argument Google’s lawyers and PR will use - but your example kind of demonstrates why that argument falls flat. The service DHL is providing to Amazon is logistics and shipping. This is an established, well-regulated industry all its own.

        Meanwhile, at Google, this contractor’s services are listed in the article:

        ensuring music content is available and approved for YouTube Music’s 80 million subscribers worldwide

        That sounds an awful lot like running the service to me. These employees perform key YouTube-specific work on an ongoing basis. For all intents and purposes, they work for Google, in Google’s offices, on Google’s systems, but their paycheck comes from Cognizant. The services being rendered aren’t on the level of “you make the widget and we’ll transport it to stores around the country because we’re a shipping company”. This is more like “we employ people for you, but provide a flimsy air gap so you don’t have to treat them like actual employees. We sell legally plausible deniability as a service.”

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      • kool_newt@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        True, but is this maybe WHY Google uses subcontractors – to avoid direct responsibility and need to negotiate?

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    • Nobody@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      NLRB contact details If workers provide a service, they should be allowed to bargain collectively to be adequately paid for that service. Full stop.

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    • Aux@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Google will simply find a different contractor company. Problem solved.

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  • negativeyoda@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I’m very much pro-union, but meanwhile artists and creators who made that content in the first place are getting fucked by everyone

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    • ivanafterall@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      A YouTube creators' strike isn't an impossible notion. It'd just have to be led by a couple of big names, like a Mr. Beast type.

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      • 3laws@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Mr Beast is the result of the trendy gen Z libertarian millionaire pipeline. He will never unionize nor support strikes.

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      • bob_wiley@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
        [deleted]
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    • Eldritch@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Artists, techies, and socialists need to come together. To build a platform focused on sustainability ultimately. Devoid of profit for the sake of profit. And more focused on meeting the needs of their members. No overpriced CEO or board of directors. Or layers of redundant management. Once the service costs are covered. Anything after that could be split somewhat proportionally within strict limits.

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      • pavnilschanda@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        I’m on board with this idea, but I’m not sure where to start.

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      • HotBeef@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        This already exists, it’s called Nebula

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    • foggy@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      This is a good thread and good comment to throw this up on:

      youtu.be/PJSTFzhs1O4?si=3SalhKn7wN6dgUpP

      Benn Jordan, perhaps better known as “The Flashbulb” as an EDM artist, has an excellent YouTube channel. This video dives into some details on how we could get artists paid, and stop getting our art jerked around by corporations. For less than we pay to not get free healthcare healthcare, you could have access to all copyright content and artists would be better compensated.

      It’s an idea worth spreading.

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    • ToucheGoodSir@lemy.lol ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Anyone able to chime in on fileshare or w/e the crypto is that gives artists a cut per play? Has been a while since I’ve heard of it.

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  • ilex@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    The article became increasingly redundant as it continued. The crux seems to be Google isn’t their employer. These workers work for a subcontractor, Cognizant. Cognizant performs services for YouTube Music.

    Cognizant is refusing to bargain citing the ongoing relevant litigation* between its employees and Google.

    • I’m not sure what the legal process is called for union claims.

    Some of the employees are striking for 1 day.

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    • hobovision@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      It’s redundant because there’s basically a circular argument that G and C are using to not respond to the workers. Workers want to C negotiate with G on the terms of their work with G but C says they can’t because they’re just contracting with G. Then G says the workers can’t negotiate with G because they work for C. Both companies point the finger at the other as to why they can’t help and just give nothing back to the workers.

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      • newDayRocks@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        The article is confusing but it sounds like the union wants both C and G at the table, but C and G both agree that C should be the employer and G doesn’t need to join the talks. So C is saying, if you really want G to join, you’ll have to wait until the appeals are finished.

        I’m guessing the union doesn’t want to negotiate with C, have C go to G with the terms and G refuse and just causing endless delays in a game of telephone bargaining.

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      • Waltzy@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Seems fairly obvious that they need to negotiate with their direct employer.

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    • Aurix@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      One idea of subcontractors is to split and delegate societal responsibility to others to appear to be clean. Surely the law is focused on Cognizant here, but the responsibility lies fully on Google, including their ability to intervene.

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  • orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    What’s to stop every single corporation from leveraging third party contractor companies just to escape union bargaining? Cognizant seems like a company that basically exists for this reason. Both Amazon and Google play this game and it’s infuriating.

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    • muddybulldog@mylemmy.win ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Nothing. It’s one of the alluring aspects of using third-parties. You pay a flat fee, people do work. You avoid all the overhead of HR, benefits, workers compensation and unemployment insurance. If you want someone gone there’s no process, you simply tell the third party that Joe doesn’t need to come back to work, ever, and you’re done.

      Amazon and Google are not alone in this practice, nor is it exclusive to Fortune 500 companies.

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      • Wrench@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        I work as a contractor dev for fortune 500s. It’s wide spread. Handful of full timers, padded with contractors.

        Brain drain is a real problem, but it also means there’s a culture of FTE being willing to jump through corporate hoops and on call hours, because they want to keep the FTE position instead of finding a new job every 1.5 years (in California where there are max contract lengths)

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      • snooggums@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Worst case you pay out what is left on the contract, but since you drove costs down it is cheaper than firing a regular worker!

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    • Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Dark Brandon and the NLRB are on that shit. No more malarkey.

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      • ToucheGoodSir@lemy.lol ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Hopefully people turn out 2024 and stop us going down the 1930s Germany route… my mother recently moved to Pennsylvania from a deep red state, and was saying that due to Bidens “corruption”, she didnt think she would vote in 2024. Upon further questioning, my hyper conservative fundemanlist Christian uncle had been sending her news.

        Hope my arguments convinced her otherwise, she detests Trump & the Republicans. Her vote DOES matter now. Have her set up with a variety of news websites & Firefox/ublock origin etc, and not “Townhall” garbage.

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      • orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        This is what I like to see.

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    • prole@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      This is what laws and regulations are for. If we had a functioning government…

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    • jaalu@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Nothing (yet). Yup, this model insulates corporations of all kinds from bargaining, costs (like healthcare), liability, and much more. Check out this episode from the Pitchfork Economics podcast …google.com/…/M2JmMzVlNGMtMDk2NC0xMWVlLWFjMGUtYzc…

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    • drathvedro@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Nothing, and they do just that. No labor laws apply to contractors and it’s practically the only way some of them can earn a decent wage, so striking is futile - they’ll just switch to other contractors.

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    • ricecake@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Well, now you have contract bargaining with your contracting company, and those companies aren’t immune from their workers becoming disgruntled and unionizing.

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  • kinther@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    People use YouTube Music?

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    • ManosTheHandsOfFate@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I’ll use it as long as they keep it bundled with YouTube Premium. The day they unbundle I’m out.

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      • Sendbeer@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Yeah, if you do a fair amount of YouTube and want to support the creators without queuing up a bunch of ads it’s a pretty good deal.

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    • Nath@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      $10 a month to have basically every song ever and never have to worry about YouTube ads. Yes, I use it.

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      • ramirezmike@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        hah, this was me with Grooveshark.

        and then I lost everything when it shut down.

        and then me again with Google play music. “upload your music, we’ll keep it for you”

        and then I lost everything when it shut down.

        “oh it’s ok, you can just use [new service], it’s better anyway”

        it just isn’t the same, you lose stuff everytime. I don’t think it’s worth it.

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      • maniacal_gaff@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Right? It’s awesome.

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      • lobut@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        I also get to Download videos for my flights or commute. I’m also in a big house. Family plan for 5 of us is ridiculous value to me.

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      • nodsocket@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Newpipe

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      • jeanofthedead@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Or $6 every 6 months if you’re savvy ;).

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      • ilex@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Your mileage may vary coming up in December. The $10 crew in the US will see a 40% increase at or near the end of the year. Grandfathering is going away.

        This brings the cost of Google’s video/music service to match Amazon’s video/music service. Are those services of the same quality?

        Soundcloud ($10) Is the real competitor to YT-Music in my book. Both benefit from user-generated and user-uploaded content. While there is crossover, I have found more tracks on Soundcloud that aren’t on YT than the other way around.

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    • trk@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      YouTube Music is a much better option than Spotify, in my opinion.

      On top of the music you get ad-free YouTube.

      Just make sure you use the unofficial YouTube Music desktop app (ytmdesktop.app) if you’re on a PC because using it in a browser sucks.

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      • jcit878@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        in theory i agree, but i could not stand the UI when i tried youtube premium, compared to spotify which is just seamless

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    • ShortFuse@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      6 family members for $15 a month and no YouTube ads. Also that money was basically paid for by Google Rewards. The Web App is good too. I don’t have to deal with CEF/Electron or any install really.

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      • papertowels@lemmy.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        I think it’s 25 now :(

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      • Kethal@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        The Web site says $24 for 5 members. Is it different per location? How do you pay less?

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    • WarlordSdocy@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I don’t use YouTube Music but I love using YouTube for my music. Tons of songs on there that just aren’t on either YouTube music or other services like Spotify.

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      • Xey@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        You can listen to just the music that’s on YouTube via YouTube music. That’s one of the main reasons why I’m using YouTube music.

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    • RHSJack@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Totally. I was already in the ecosystem so it was only natural I go to Music when it was available. Is it better than Spotify? Shrug. Just different.

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      • ilex@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Spotify has invested significant $$ in upgrading their platform.

        YTM lets you access user-uploaded content. With that comes more in the way of remixes and Indy artists. The platform itself is pretty dogshit, though.

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    • Dawn@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      For me, every other music app is missing alot of the songs I want to listen to (Cover songs, and remixes are the big 2) and they are only available on yt music.

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      • jayandp@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Same + foreign artists. Lots of J-Rock artists that are hard to find on Western music services, let alone other countries. Only stuff like K-Pop I can find consistently on Western music services just because of how in demand it is.

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      • ilex@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Soundcloud might be an alternative worth looking into. For the music I tend to search for, I find I’m more likely to find it on Soundcloud, and it can take years to migrate from SC to YTM.

        While YTM and SC were both $10, putting up with the worse platform was a reasonable price for no YT ads. Now that the grandfathering is ending and the price is jumping to $14, for US folks, I’m feeling the pressure to migrate.

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    • CrayonRosary@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Yes, and it’s great!

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    • regbin_@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Only because I get both YT Premium and YT Music for cheap ($4/month).

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      • salton@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Hah look at Mr. Money Bags over here, I had to $1.11 last month for YT Premium.

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    • Companion1666@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      YouTube Premium is so cheap, man. ₱159 (close to $3) per month.

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    • mojo@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Yeah, I just don’t pay for it lmao. Apps like InnerTune are great, rips them as mp3s and can use YouTube music radio system and lyrics.

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    • reverendsteveii@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Revanced, yeah. Still sucks when you’re looking for an album and all of the songs are from the official channel except for one that some schlub uploaded which repeats the previous track as an intro, has the levels maxed across all channels and sounds like it was recorded with a USB lapel mic in a paper bag

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    • nudnyekscentryk@szmer.info ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I do because I pay next to nothing for a family membership, I can access covers from YT and it works with Android Auto which my father needs (otherwise I would simply use Revanced). Also could never learn Spotify, it’s so counter-intuitive to me

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  • WillardHerman@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Time to stop using Gmail and YouTube. I had already avoided go░gle search for months now.

    Over the last three or four months I had deleted all my FaceBook, Twitter, Reddit, Instagram accounts. And this made me want to avoid go░gle search.

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  • legion@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    YouTube Music is the enshitttified version of Google Play Music.

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  • moriarty@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    A Cognizant spokesperson told Motherboard in an email, “We have received the Alphabet Workers Union’s request for a Cognizant bargaining representative. The request put forward was for both Cognizant and Google to bargain. While we respect our associates’ rights to unionize, we firmly believe Cognizant is the sole employer of our associates. While the joint employer ruling remains unresolved, we cannot bargain at this time.”

    “Google refuses to just admit that they are our employer, and then Cognizant is just using Google’s legal appeals as a scapegoat,” Marschner said. “That, honestly, is exactly why we filed for joint employer status in the first place. We knew that if we just tried to engage in collective bargaining with Cognizant, that’s exactly what they would do.”

    wut

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  • return2ozma@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Everybody’s striking! LFG!

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  • Lightrider@lemmynsfw.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Defeat the fuckingcapitalists

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  • greavous@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I can’t believe I’m saying it but but I’m with Google here. They are sub-cons so negotiation would surely go through their employer who is cognizant. I’m a sub-contractor, I’m not gonna go to the client and ask for a raise, I’m gonna go to my employer. Maybe it’s different in different regions but if I asked the client for a raise in the uk they would probably just laugh at me.

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  • chakan2@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Yea, no…the headline is wrong on this one. These guys are contractors. Google will just nuke Cognizant’s contract and call it a day.

    Those guys aren’t particularly good in my experience and are just warm bodies to do things that should be automated anyway.

    Google will simply go to another big contract firm and call it a day.

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  • MargotRobbie@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I just want to see more strikes. 🙂

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  • FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Google: Don’t be evil. PROFIT UBER ALLES!!!

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  • Shadywack@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I get the technicality of all this, but this could be a watershed moment. Businesses like to contract people out to move liability and cut corners in their obligations to the workers. The bottom line is that its cheaper and easier to fire whatever contractors you don’t like for any reason, and artificially push their salaries/wages down.

    Look at Fedex Ground, Amazon drivers, etc. Google is now firmly in the role of the bad guy here, with Sundar Pichai making 220+ million dollars with much of it on the backs of layoffs and ethnically bankrupt business practices. I honestly think the ramifications of this in a positive way for the workers is tantamount to the formation of the UAW itself with their sitting strikes. They sat at the machines and forcibly halted production.

    That needs to happen here, and all you scabs, fuck you. You can just piss off.

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  • expatriado@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    could they put bring the dislike count back on the demands? and make so video posters can’t delete comments, so we can call bullshit when needed? that would be nice

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  • csolisr@communities.azkware.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    As somebody who’s been boycotting big media for years, I can’t be happier to see the copyright industry slowly backstabbing itself once and over again

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