Sadly, it might not help you. A wrong look in their direction can mean being shot in the face.
With the ICE raids coming up at a very faster rate, do we need more self-defense (or community defense organizing) classes?
Submitted 3 weeks ago by DylanMc6@lemmy.dbzer0.com to nostupidquestions@lemmy.world
Comments
GeneralDingus@lemmy.cafe 3 weeks ago
deranger@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
You can die or you can be complicit.
DylanMc6@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
And that’s why community defense is important?
GeneralDingus@lemmy.cafe 2 weeks ago
Honestly, I misread your post to be self defense.
DScratch@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
No to self defence. You learning self defence will only provoke a stronger response from the guys who will go up to and beyond killing you, and may call in actual military support if required.
Civil disobedience feels like a better approach. Forming human walls, information networks and rapid support responses slow and mitigate attacks on your community.
Applying pressure to your representatives also can help.
EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 2 weeks ago
Civil disobedience feels like a better approach
We really should stop showing up. Stop showing up to work. Stop showing up to buy things. Stop showing up to sign up for the military. Stop reproducing.
Pat_Riot@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
Many of us generally prefer to sleep inside and have food to eat. A general strike will likely never happen in the US. Being prepared as best as possible for violence is more necessary every day and making friends with like minded folks is one of the best ways to do that. They are bringing the violence to us. We cannot just lie down and take it. Arm up, train and help others do the same.
Aljernon@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
They’re executing people in the street for civil disobedience. A
Witchfire@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Yes.
BigDiction@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I recommend a first aid class that includes bleed and bone break trauma, and a kit.
Never a waste regardless of circumstances.
Fedizen@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
That and something to snip the valves off of the tires on their vehicles.
VitoRobles@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
OP, ignore a lot of these commenters. Remember that Lemmy is international, and does not reflect actual Americans who are stepping up. You’re asking the Internet, many doom scroll then bitch and then repeat and do nothing else.
Remember that Lemmy is still social media - which means it’s unprotected and anybody can read it. You’re not going to find these conversations openly. Because that’s a huge safety risk.
The community groups already exist. Maybe not in small towns, but every city has something. It won’t be called anything like “self-defense”, which is actually harmful to the core message of creating only peaceful protests.
But being involved in the non-violent aspect will help you start to get in the know. If you’re already in self defense groups (everything from martial arts to your local gun range), bring up your interest in activism.
In other words, you won’t find your answer here.
kboos1@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
You say self defense like you’re fighting off a mugger. Your facing government backed thugs not street thugs (they wouldn’t need to cover their faces if they weren’t doing something wrong) physically resisting isn’t going to do you any good. Maybe you make their jobs a little tougher for a little while, but they will go back to work tomorrow and you will spend a few days, maybe weeks in jail or get shipped off somewhere if you survived.
You are out numbered and out matched, self defense classes aren’t going to do you any good, no half measure is going to do anything. It’s entirely up to you if feel the need to resist and/or feel the urge to become a martyr if they come for you, it’s your choice.
If you feel the need to act, your best options are to join an activist group and/or support government leaders that you feel could help. Because in the end you’re either going to be standing in front of God or a judge, you won’t be physically fighting back in any meaningful way.
TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
physically resisting isn’t going to do you any good.
Well at a certain point that may be the only option and human history is mostly examples of us failing to appeal to our better nature. Longer we wait do do things that physically stop these thugs from doing what they are doing, the longer this goes on for.
kboos1@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Fear is what’s going to make them stop acting like thugs, they don’t fear the consequences of their actions. The person giving them orders don’t fear the consequences. Learning hip toss or judo chop isn’t going to stop a group of fearless thugs.
But you’re right. If reason is lost and the people that are sworn to protect do nothing then logically that is the next step, it’s sort of written into the Constitution and Amendments because our founders dealt with this sort of thing and the abuse of power.
Cevilia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
What, exactly, do you think a community of randos is going to do against a heavily-armed extra-legal military operation?
This isn’t a jab or a gotcha, I’m genuinely curious what this idea of community defense would look like.
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The Black Panthers had so much success at preventing police violence by simply showing up with guns when the cops came that Reagan made it illegal to open carry in California.
anon_8675309@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
They succeeded because they emphasized education and community.
Being an armed militia willing to die for their cause was secondary.
AA5B@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
My understanding is they succeeded partly by being the bigger force. You can do that when the enemy is a small local police force with the weapons of that time. However it’s not the same when it’s a larger militarized federal force that is already claiming “total Immunity”.
If they have the overwhelming force and believe they have no limits, escalating will only escalate their response.
But legally they don’t have “total immunity”. Legally there are limitations. Legally there are civil rights. Pursuing it through the courts is slow and uncertain, but much more likely to succeed
DylanMc6@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
community defense
I think this would help: mutualaiddisasterrelief.org/…/Community-Defense.p…
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Sabotage, insurgency, guerilla tactics, asymmetric warfare…
saimen@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
The only thing I can think of:
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yes, obviously.
bizzle@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Furthermore, duh
bookmeat@lemmynsfw.com 2 weeks ago
Organize. Join groups. Unite. Do not Lone Wolf anything in this situation. Your power comes from your biomass moving in one direction. Do not disperse.
inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You’re going to use some bog standard self defense class against multiple armed, stupid, violent ICE agents?
Yeah, that will end well.
If you’re going to do anything you’d better off going to a protest, finding like minded individuals and then deciding where to go from there.
Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Better than nothing. Also not self defense. Hit the gym. Get a gun. Go train at a gym BJJ, MMA whatever but do something. Use the hate for fascists to drive training. I’m so tired of seeing protestors get knocked out trying to act tough. Nothing sets the effort back like watching your side get beat repeatedly. We can act high and morally superior but if we reject the basics then it’s all hollow. You need to support all of it with some type of power and power comes from winning at whatever you do. If we’re protesting only because they’re letting us because they haven’t become more violent yet then we’re not actually protesting.
AA5B@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Something may be better than nothing but escalating without hope isn’t better.
It’s a bad idea to attempt force against overwhelming force.
You’re much more likely to get good results by surviving and following through in the courts. Your strength is knowing your rights, filming everything, ensuring it’s clear on video when those rights are validated.
For example, you may not be able to physically prevent an illegal search. But you can film it. You can make it clear that you do don’t consent to a search (while not physically interfering with their illegal activity). You can ask about their warrant. You can even ask for their grounds for suspicion. When they are on video violating that, it’s pretty damaging evidence. That won’t help you in the short term, but it will help in the future. If there is due process, you may get any evidence obtained illegally dropped. You can follow through with a civil rights proceeding. It won’t be fast or easy but you’re much more likely to eventually get justice, than any fantasies of violent resistance
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Need classes on insurgency
frog_brawler@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
ICE agents get 8 weeks of training. Don’t undervalue someone with a year of real training.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
They get 47 days of training, to honor the 47th president. That means some scummy sycophant landed on that number so that it would get to the president’s ear, and maybe Daddy will know who they are.
VitoRobles@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
Contrary to popular belief: Going to a protest isn’t the only way to show your dislike. Protesters are the front line.
The back line is support. First aid people. Armed citizens acting as guards. Legal observators. Saboteurs. Tech people to amplify the message. All of these are not at a protest, but assembled through online groups and community events.
You need both lines, and there’s a lot of roles out there.
remon@ani.social 2 weeks ago
Well given that most ICE raids happen on the other side of an ocean, I’d say no.
DylanMc6@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: If NOT self-defense, would community defense be a bit better?
Drbreen@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
The fuck you gonna do when they storm your house with military weapons? The only self defence is to shoot (not that I’m condoning that, just stating my opinion) because they will certainly shoot you if you appear as a physical threat.
Bytemeister@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
They’ll shoot you if you try to camly drive away from a man trying to get into your car.
Pat_Riot@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
If they ever managed to find my house my only option is to die shooting back and hope I at least get a few of them. If they make it out to where I live the cities have already fallen. And I may not be the demographic they are openly hunting, but they have already proven that they have no compunction to killing folks who look like me with very little to no provocation. These men are the enemy of the American people.
Aljernon@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
What we need is for more people to read the anarchists handbook
swelter_spark@reddthat.com 2 weeks ago
There are lots of interesting manuals available on the internet.
SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I think people here watch too many movies. Reality is a lot different.
DylanMc6@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
What are you think of community defense organizing?
TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
If you aren’t already on it… Its never too late to start but its also very late to be starting. Community defense starts at building community. How many of your neighbors do you know? 1? 10? 100? Do your neighbors identify each other as people or just people that park next to one another every night. Do you share food, like potlucks or beers on the lanai or at the beach?
These are small examples, but the very, very first step is to begin seeing people as humans. Not seeing each other as humans; being trained to not see each other as humans: its what got us here in the first place. 100 people stepping out there front porch to confront ICE immeasurably more effective than one person with a gun showing up.
As far as actual training, take a gun safety course before doing anything else firearms related. You can sign up for one this weekend probably. Guns aren’t something to be feared, they are something to be understood. Even if its not your gun, knowing when a gun’s safety is or isn’t set; its very important. At that point you can decide if its the right way for you to defend yourself.
yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Most of America has no communities at all. It’s a bunch of strangers.
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
This has deliberately been done to us. The atomization of our society serves no one but the capitalists (who are the masters of ICE).
DylanMc6@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Please elaborate on this
TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Well it would be helpful to understand what you mean by self-defense. Some people hear that and think barricades and molotovs. Others think community gardens. The fact is there are many ways to resist authoritarianism.
What does community defense mean to you?