Nice article on Meshtastic. The problem is that, like anything, the actual distance is a lot more dependent on line of sight and the actual mesh existing. Which means we’d need a LOT more people to adopt these and put up repeaters for them to be useful. Which is doable, but not cheap.
This Tiny Radio Lets Me Send Texts Without Wi-Fi or Cell Service
Submitted 2 days ago by jwr1@kbin.earth to technology@lemmy.world
https://www.howtogeek.com/this-tiny-radio-lets-me-send-texts-without-wi-fi-or-cell-service/
Comments
Mbourgon@lemmy.world 2 days ago
shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 2 days ago
Have a look at meshmap.net. That shows people who have voluntarily put themselves on a map.
Although it can be a serious underestimation, for example in my area, I’m the only one who lists myself on the map, but there are about 10 other nodes that don’t
Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 13 hours ago
Hmm, more than I expected actually. None in my town but one in a nearby town and the nearest city.
Is there a limit to how far can you communicate through multiple nodes? Also is there anything special for setting up a repeater compared to just communicating on the network?
Though i don’t know anyone else that would be likely to use something like this sadly.
JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl 1 day ago
Nice, 0 within 25 kilometers of me lol.
IllNess@infosec.pub 2 days ago
I always thought these were more like walkie talkies for messaging than telephones that you can call anyone.
Like it would be good if cell serivce goes down.
shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 2 days ago
That’s pretty much exactly what they are. Text message in walkie-talkies. With the added benefit that if your friend can’t hear you, but another friend is in between, your message automatically gets relayed through their walkie-talkie.
Eheran@lemmy.world 2 days ago
At that point, given the extremely small bandwidth, we might as well just use a massive wifi, everyone already has the required hardware for that instead of producing more trash for a pretty much non-existing use case.
deafboy@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Ever since I switched to lemmy, I constantly stumble upon people trying to guilt other people for their hobbies. That’s pretty unhealthy.
Whoever reads this, don’t feel guilty living your life. Spend time on whatever you’re passionate about. Build new things, even if they do not have a rational use case at the moment. They might play an important role in your future.
artyom@piefed.social 2 days ago
Some people already are
But the point of LoRa is in the name, long range. Wifi barely reaches outside my house. Also a WiFi mesh is dependent on a variety of complicated and proprietary networks and systems while meshtastic is entirely independent.
shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 2 days ago
You can have one or the other. If you choose high bandwidth, you’re going to get very short distance because you can’t do serious error correction, etc. If you choose long range, you’re going to get low bandwidth because you need to include error correction, etc. In the transmissions.
ilovepiracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 days ago
In trying times you’re missing the big picture. If they were more commonplace, you’d have a decentralised communication network that can’t be shut down by the government.
0x0@lemmy.zip 1 day ago
pretty much non-existing use case.
…for you.
I can see a use-case where a low-powered off-grid communication device can be useful.
shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 2 days ago
Companies are starting to manufacture repeaters and they are not that expensive. You can get one for about 100 Federal Reserve Notes.
Thwompthwomp@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Sucks you can’t charge it and have to instead go to a central bank to exchange minted coins for notes that you can exchange for the commodity that is the radio.
Mbourgon@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Yeah, I’ve seen some clever stuff where they take a solar powered light and wire in a Heltec V3 for $30-$40. But I thought one of the new upcoming standards (WiFi? Cell?) incorporated a mesh capability.
SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Why not just add networking capabilities or a SIM card?
Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 2 days ago
You can’t expect me not to reinvent the wheel.
As we post on Lemmy, which is a reinvention of a reinvention of a reinvention of Usenet from 1979.
Curious_Canid@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
My wife and I each have a radio, as do several of my friends. They’re handy for anything where you may not have cell coverage, like camping. We also use them at protests, to avoid the heavy surveillance that’s being done on cell networks. Even if the authorities start looking at Meshtastic, everything except the public channel uses PGP end-to-end encryption, and there is no middleman that has access to the unencrypted data.
We have also put up a repeater node. It’s on top of a house at the top of the highest ridge near us. Before it went up we rarely saw more than our own nodes. Now we see several dozen, and sometimes a lot more. And the repeater serves the whole community, not just us. The beauty of a mesh is that everyone contributes to everyone else’s coverage.
The mesh in our city is growing rapidly right now. Not only are there a lot of people getting their own nodes, there are a surprising number of people putting up repeaters to help spread the coverage. It’s amazing to watch our whole neighborhoods suddenly appear as gaps are filled in.
MrTolkinghoen@lemmy.zip 20 hours ago
How do I do this? Shats the easiest way to get started?
Both a personal device and a repeater on my house
Curious_Canid@lemmy.ca 17 hours ago
Easiest and least expensive are a little different, so I’ll talk briefly about both.
The easiest is to go on Etsy and search for Meshtastic. You will find plenty of people who will build you a ready-to-go unit, both individual radios and solar-powered repeaters. (If you plan to put your repeater somewhere with power you can use any radio as a repeater, just put a good antenna on it.) Pre-built units start at around $60 and can go up into the hundreds, but $60 to $90 will get you a great personal radio.
The least expensive is to order a kit from one of the many companies that sell them. If the kit does not come with a case, check Etsy for cases that match your kit. Most kits do not require soldering, you just have to plug in various cables and connectors, then fit everything into the case. Some actually come fully assembled. This approach generally costs somewhere between half and two-thirds of what a pre-built setup will run. Kits start as low as $10, although most or $20 to $40, and cases are mostly $20 to $35.
One of the harder parts is to figure out which radio kit you want, but there are just two major types. Those built around the ESP32 processor tend to be a little less expensive and offer the option of WiFi, but they have a much shorter battery life. Those built around the nRF52 processor cost a little more, do not offer WiFi, but have nearly 10 times the battery life. WiFi is only used in a few specific cases, usually by repeaters and not personal units, so you may well not need it. Battery life is not usually an issue for personal radios, since nearly all of them will go for a full day between charges, but sometimes you may want more than that. Stand-alone repeaters that run off solar panels are almost all based on the nRF52 because of the battery life.
The most common starter radios are based on the Heltec V3 kit, which is based on the ESP32. It has been around a long time, it is relatively inexpensive, and it can do pretty much everything. The only downside is battery life, which may or may not matter to you. Unless that’s a concern, you can’t go wrong with a V3. My personal favorite is the T114 kit, also from Heltec, which is based on the nRF52. It is much like the V3, but without WiFi and with much better battery life.
I would wait until you’ve played with a personal radio before buying a repeater. Every Meshtastic radio acts as a repeater, so you don’t necessarily need a dedicated repeated. Find out how many nodes are in your area and what kind of coverage you get. If there aren’t many nodes, or distance is limited, you can consider a dedicated repeater.
Basically, a repeater is just a node with a good location that’s put in a good location, up as high as possible. Because Meshtastic radios use very little power, it is practical to make completely self-sufficient solar repeater units that never require charging. You can put one of those on your roof, up in a tree, or on top of a nearby hill or mountain, without having to worry about regularly climbing back up there.
I strongly recommend that you go to meshtastic.org and read through the Getting Started documentation. It provides a lot more detail (and less personal opinion). And check out the Meshtastic communities on Lemmy. Have fun!
mesamunefire@piefed.social 2 days ago
I maintain three of these devices, if anyone has any questions.
DontNoodles@discuss.tchncs.de 2 days ago
What is the typical power requirement on these devices? Can it be used to set up IoT sensor nodes in the wild where they work off solar, or do they need periodic tuning/care?
mesamunefire@piefed.social 2 days ago
I'm running about 1w per device ATM.
So yeah it sips energy. There's a lot of nodes in the mountains that are solar powered. They work.
captainastronaut@seattlelunarsociety.org 2 days ago
Very low and yes. They work great for IoT, as long as it’s not mission critical stuff as messages can get dropped or arrive out of order sometimes. But for something like monitoring a remote sensor station that’s within the Lora range, without needing a cellular plan, yes.
Bubs@lemmy.zip 2 days ago
What is the range of a device like this? Is there any chance of using a mesh system like that if you’re not in a city? I’m about 30 miles away from a few towns, so there’s little chance for repeaters to be nearby.
mesamunefire@piefed.social 2 days ago
Theoretically you can get 50 ish miles or more with line of sight. In practice, you can get around 10 ish with repeaters. With around 30 devices, our city has effective coverage.
You also have options to use MQTT if you want to make sure a message gets through. But that requires an internet connection.
Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 2 days ago
Additionally is there a way to search what’s already out there without a device?
hansolo@lemmy.today 1 day ago
How does this differ from IP over ham radio? It seems like in general, it would just be lower distance and greater reliance on nodes near you, with the trade off being smaller equipment.
mesamunefire@piefed.social 1 day ago
Its biggest + in my book is that you don't have to be a ham to make it work. There are better systems if you want more reliable communications. But its a fun side hobby and, in the event of a power outage, a decent little communicator. Although from personal experience, most of the devices piggy back of your existing cell phones and bluetooth. So ironically as long as the cell towers aren't blown to hell, your still fine either way.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
What kind of data rate can they provide? Can it support audio? Low bit-rate video?
I’ve seen LoRa when Pine64 announced some related products some years back, but I haven’t really gotten into it. If the community is big enough and the bitrate reasonable enough, I might get one to connect my home to my parents home (about 10 miles away, so at the edge of the range) for fun. It would be cool to set up some smart home stuff at both ends that I could host on my own so I can keep an “eye” on my parents stuff when the travel (mostly just door and occupancy sensors, no video)>
mesamunefire@piefed.social 1 day ago
In theory the protocol can support those formats. With meshtastic it's only designed for text. You can get some really basic emojis though since they are Unicode.
themadcodger@kbin.earth 2 days ago
I got mine recently in a dxent aized city and while there are plenty of nodes popping up on the map, the local channel is pretty quiet. Is that normal?
mesamunefire@piefed.social 2 days ago
Yeah, we had to make a weather app on longfast to fill the void. Tech people tend to not talk all that much. We are the strange ones ;)
neon_nova@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 days ago
The maps do not show any devices in the country where I live, but due to the low cost and practical use, I’d love to set some up.
If i am usually within 6km of my home, in a city. I wonder if 1 node will be enough coverage.
Also, how can you tell that there are more nodes than reported on those sites?
mesamunefire@piefed.social 2 days ago
The phone app gives the location of people want you to know. And most don't care. For example, in my city there is currently 24 online nodes my window node has interacted with. And 174 in total nodes it's contacted today.
It can be spotty during certain times of the day.
pfizer_dose@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Man I’ve been seeing so much about these over the last few weeks, I’d love to get my hands on one
ouRKaoS@lemmy.today 20 hours ago
I just picked up a 2pack of devices from the Amazon link in that article. Planning on messing with them this weekend. I figure I’ve spent more than $60 on random projects that went nowhere before, so this can’t be that bad.
some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 19 hours ago
I sent this link to a friend who’s really into internet radio (like CB used to be cool for nerds) who also loves to 3d print. He lives in a plains state, where this should work really well.
benny@reddthat.com 1 day ago
LoRa has been around for a while trying to break through with different devices, some of it does seem useful, but it’s a tough sell to invest in something without knowing where the network will go. A carrier model or something else, maybe subsidies, is needed.
3abas@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Not much bandwidth to know do much beyond text, so use-cases are probably very limited already.
brunoqc@piefed.ca 2 days ago
Clickbait title. Just say it's meshtastic.
Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Ok…what’s meshtastic? I still haven’t clicked the article, and know nothing of which you speak.
I’d say this title is for people like me. I think it sounds cool.
pezhore@infosec.pub 2 days ago
It is cool! The barrier to entry is relatively low. The only thing to really worry about is:
If there’s not a lot of people around it’s not the end of the world. Nodes can connect over the Internet via MQTT servers. Yes, this defeats the purpose of having an offline/decentralized communication platform, but it is a good stop gap until more nodes are put up.
Here’s a sample of what I can see in a somewhat large-ish Midwest City in the US (there’s about 63 nodes I can reach by hopping through relays).
Image
brunoqc@piefed.ca 2 days ago
It allows us to make a mesh network with Lora radio devices. Lora is slow but has long range. I think it works better when you have line of sight, like if someone can put a node on a mountain, it would help everyone.
I think people might have sent audio with it but it's mostly useful for text messages. It could be useful if the Internet is down, maybe, but it's more like a toy.
TimewornTraveler@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
I mean it’s an article for people like me who have never heard of that
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
Sure, but they could at least put that in the title as well so people who are familiar w/ it don’t need to click through.
friend_of_satan@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Definitely clickbait. The phrase “send texts” as it’s been used for the past quarter century means “sms texts” or maybe “text messages to other people on mobile phone networks”, which is not at all what this is.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
Exactly. I was hyped because I’d like to send and receive SMS w/o a mobile phone. I was hoping someone implemented the protocol so I could integrate it into my desktop, the “no wi-fi or cell service” was merely a bonus.
But no, this is just a way to communicate over a different radio protocol than mobile phone standards.
altphoto@lemmy.today 2 days ago
Yeah this is not SMS! Its probably text that looks like:
¥¢¥^=¶√•€¢√°=¶}{°÷™π^™¥π¥¥° °{}}∆∆×÷°%^¢¢°{]]×=%π¥®√™^%÷
Dogyote@slrpnk.net 1 day ago
Then what is it?