Submitted 3 weeks ago by Eyekaytee@aussie.zone to technology@lemmy.world
https://aussie.zone/pictrs/image/cbde4d7e-3cd5-4f1e-9b89-aa8088417a1a.jpeg
Last year, China generated 834 terawatt-hours of solar power.
Which is more than the G7 countries generated, and more than the US and EU combined. In fact the only country group that generates more solar power than China is the OECD, all 38 countries of it.
Data: @ember-energy.org
Source: bsky.app/profile/…/3lsbbsg6ohk2j
Nice I love seeing China Greenwashing get reposted. Remember that China is 3x the size of the EU so them having 3x the renewable power is a stupid comparison. China also continues to increase coal generation by more than renewables. China is only %27 renewables while the EU is 47%. China is 17% of the world and almost 40% of the emissions.
OECD countries are actually working on emission reduction instead of china which continue to increase emissions with absolute no signs of stopping. They have missed every single renewable target and goal they’re set. But dont worry im sure they will stop building more coal plants in 2030, im sure it wont be to late by then.
China also continues to increase coal generation by more than renewables.
I don’t believe this:
ember-energy.org/countries-and-regions/china/
In 2024, China approved 66.7GW of new coal-fired capacity, started construction on 94.5GW of coal power projects
Even if you add these 2 together and pretend they were finished the same year it’s not even close to:
China’s renewable energy sector made remarkable progress in 2024, adding 356 gigawatts (GW) of wind and solar capacity
They have missed every single renewable target and goal they’re set.
I don’t believe this is true either unless you are referring to some other targets?
In 2020, China set a goal to install at least 1,200 gigawatts (GW) of solar and wind power by 2030. By the end of 2024, China had already surpassed this target, reaching this milestone 6 years ahead of schedule. This was made possible by aggressive investments, government policies, and a surge in solar and wind installations.
China’s solar capacity grew by an incredible 45.2% in 2024, adding 277 GW. Wind capacity also saw a strong increase of 18%, with an additional 80 GW installed. Overall, total power generation capacity rose by 14.6% in 2024, driven mainly by renewables.
carboncredits.com/chinas-renewable-energy-boom-a-…
China is only %27 renewables while the EU is 47%.
Don’t worry, just like everything else in the near future that will flip with China having more renewables than the EU
You have plenty of money apparently to suddenly:
NATO leaders on Wednesday confirmed their commitment to more than double defence spending by 2035 banding words like “crucial”, “momentous” and “quantum leap”, but the summit also exposed rifts over how the US and Europe perceive Ukraine and Russia.
euronews.com/…/defence-spend-to-5-of-gdp-ukraine-…
Global energy storage owner-operator BW ESS and Spanish energy storage developer Ibersun say a new joint venture is intended to build eight four-hour battery projects across the country, with a combined capacity of 2.2 GW, 8.8 GWh.
…com.au/no-time-to-waste-huge-big-battery-plans-u…
On top of this energy prices in the EU are ridiculous and for some reason they still can’t get off the gas, so they have high energy prices and their companies and manufacturing are leaving them… to go to China…
But I appreciate your scepticism, especially for China, they are the worlds top producer of CO2 by FAR but I do want to address
Greenwashing
This is something I’ve wanted for a while:
It requires EU importers to pay a levy corresponding to the embedded carbon emissions in 303 emission-intensive products
oecd.org/…/what-to-expect-from-the-eu-carbon-bord…
I’ve long disliked that places like the EU and the rest of the west can export their dirty manufacturing over to China where companies take advantage of lax or no environmental regulations, it’s a false economy and makes the west look a whole lot greener and cleaner than it should if we were manufacturing what we used back at home
China approved 66.7GW of new coal-fired capacity, started construction on 94.5GW of coal power projects
New power plants don’t mean using those power plants. Resilience/backup power. Use of coal for electricity has declined despite new coal plants.
edit: boy I sure do love to procrastinate and talk about energy and co2 instead of studying :|
I feel the same way, but I had to actually focus on real life over the weekend instead of combing through the energy reports. I will start by being good faith and saying that its very likely that 2024 stats are significantly more in favor of strong renewable growth but I also couldnt find a csv of data on ember-energy so i couldnt look at the actual numbers. The major energy reports I normally go by dont seem to have included 2024 data yet. Its likely that even in 2024 non renewables still increased more than renewables even though china claims that renewables were 80% of the growth I will explain below why this has previously been the case.
China also continues to increase coal generation by more than renewables.
China loves this stat and its a good stat but its a bit misleading, these show renewable energy as a % of total power which is relative instead of absolute. Why this is important is because it allows china to brag about increasing renewables while still massively increasing non renewables.
Year 2022: Renewable = 8114 TWh | Non-renewable = 36401 TWh | % renewables = 18.2% From Energy Institute’s world review
Year 2023: Renewable = 8719 TWh | Non-renewable = 38708 TWh | % renewables = 18.3%
Renewable energy increase was 605 TWh and Non-renewable was 2307 TWh
There is another stat that these reports normally parade around. Its % increase of a specific energy type. (these stats are made up cause i could be fucked finding an example article of a claim) They will say something like solar went from 600gw to 1000 thats a 66% increase this year and coal only increased 40% except coal is 3600gw to 6400.
Maybe I’m wrong and if so i’d love for someone smarter than me to correct me.
They have missed every single renewable target and goal they’re set.
China does this thing where they go to climate meetings and agree on world goals like 13% energy intensity reduction and carbon intensity reduction. They then go back home and broadcast random goals like adding x amount of solar or carbon peak by x year. These are no climate targets, these are personal targets from the CCP that even if achieved (the carbon peak 1000% wont be) are no where close to what is required to meet their climate goals.
instituteforenergyresearch.org/…/china-is-missing…
Europe has plenty of money apparently to suddenly double defense spending OVER 10 YEARS
I’m not sure how european defense spending is relevant considering china’s defense spending has also more than doubled in the last few years and is nearing the US
Where will the batteries be made I wonder?
Prehaps they would be made in a country with environmental and labour laws if governments legislated properly to prevent companies outsourcing manufacturing. However this doesnt absolve china. China isnt being forced at Gunpoint to produce these goods with low labour regulation and low environmental regulation.
energy prices in the EU are ridiculous
Can someone actually point out to me where this comes from? Even when I look up the peak spike of germany Energy prices it doesnt seem that bad. At the end of the day energy is a small % of EU household spending and ill think that until i see otherwise.
It requires EU importers to pay a levy corresponding to the embedded carbon emissions in 303 emission-intensive products
This would be great, it would have been greater 10 years ago. But the best time to act was yesterday and the 2nd best time is today so i’d be happy to see something like this implemented although I dont know how effective it would be since manufacturing competitiveness is no where close anymore.
While everyone else is paying the costs that come with environmental regulation china is exploiting it and getting celebrated for it. Its insane what a few dollars can do to change peoples minds on a topic.
tbh I’m surprised that you even got upvotes, didn’t went that well for me with a similar answer on another post…
Yeah the .ml must have missed this thread.
China is 17% of the world and almost 40% of the emissions.
Deceiving metrics. What percentage of world PPP GDP is China? China doesn’t pollute due to its population, it pollutes because it’s the industrial hub of the world. How comfortable of you to sit in your office and import Chinese products disregarding the effect of that in the pollution metrics of your country and China.
China is only %27 renewables while the EU is 47%
And how long did China take to develop? What are the cumulative CO2 emissions of China vs those of the US or Europe? Furthermore: where are the solar panels that Europe uses manufactured? Europe may have a blossoming wind industry, but photovoltaics are almost entirely Chinese.
What a chauvinistic and anti-Chinese point of view. BTW, you got completely proven wrong on China building more coal than renewables, you’re just spitting disinformation.
you’re retarded
3 times as much solar as the EU.
Has 3 times the population.
🤷
They are using 50% of the world’s coal though, so maybe let’s not start tugging each other off just yet.
Last year China installed more solar than the rest of the world combined, but they have less than 1/5th of the worldpopulation 🤷
There are lot’s of things you can criticize China about, their commitment to renewable energy isn’t one of them.
They were also responsible for 95% of the world’s new coal construction (2023). With just 1/5th of the world population.
I’ll give them props for solar. They build a lot of it, and thanks to us outsourcing practically everything to China over the last few decades, they build most of our solar as well.
You sound like all the right-wing politicians the world over who don’t want to implement zero carbon solutions because “China still burn coal”.
We’re on a sinking ship and you’re complaining that you don’t like the colour of the life raft.
If China was the only country in the world that burned cull but they exclusively burned coal and everybody else was on solar panels the world would still be an infinitely better place and it is right now. Not doing something just because other people also aren’t doing it just ensures that nobody does anything.
I think that you misunderstood his comment. He’s not criticizing solar energy, he’s calling out China’s green washing as they have the same solar production per Capita than Europe but they have way more coal production per Capita than Europe.
A right wing politician would throw a fit about how solar energy is dangerous and make kids trans.
I’m guessing a lot of tha t coal is being used to feed westerners urge to buy more crap we don’t need.
Yes, their energy requirements have also skyrocketed in the last 20 years. However if you look at their energy mix, in 2010 their energy mix was around 70% from coal, and today it’s around 50% of their totally energy mix.
People talk about China’s energy use like it’s not* their* energy use. They used that power to produce the stupid shit that you bought, dumbass. You’re responsible for that energy use, despite it being generated in China.
This is legit true IDK why you’re getting downvoted. Just because it doesn’t show on US energy usage, every time you buy stupid shit you don’t need like an automatic corn dog maker or a taco holder shaped like a sombrero that holds a shot glass in the middle, that has a real cost in terms of CO2 and that is done in China.
i think I need an automatic corn dog maker and a taco holder shaped like a sombrero that holds a shot glass in the middle
It’s a bit hard to believe, but the vast majority of China’s manufacturing is consumed in China; it’s actually not that export oriented compared to other countries like Germany or Japan, it’s just the scale that makes them such and exporting juggernaut. The flip side of this is that most of the energy use is also actually China’s own energy use.
And China’s energy use is increasing simply because its people are getting richer and consuming more. Based on this, I don’t think China is the main concern. There are lots more developing countries that will likewise use more energy as they develop. China’s green transition seems to be going full tilt, but I’m not sure those other countries can transition as quickly as we need.
Chinas exports might not be huge for China, but they’re huge for the rest of the world
So you’re saying we should stop trading with China?
Cool if true, but the source seemed to be bluesky soooo it’s a big gain of salt
Solar panels don’t work as well with greysky.
Yeah I think by “source” they just mean they’re just giving credit to the bsky post they got the graph from, the data seems to be from a green energy transition thinktank. No idea if you’d put more stock in ember-energy.org, so make of that what you will 🤷♂️
Yeah, that’s where I ended up and didn’t know what to do with them. I guess I trust them as much as any unknown internet source
It’s great that they are creating that much. They have the largest incentive too, the U.S. second. The G7 they refer to (U.S. U.K. Japan Germany France Italy Canada) used a total of ~7 TWh of electricity in 2023. China used ~9 TWh.
Hopefully the G7 starts catching up. Chinas form of government puts their long term expendetures into play when figuring out where to invest as they have a monetary stake in how much it costs to produce the electricity.
In countries like the U.S. we see companies who have large investments in oil, coal, and such trying to manipulate the transition because they didn’t have the investments already in place with alternative energy sources. The U.S. government has no money “invested” per say, so long term they don’t care that it costs more during the transition as those profits are made by the companies. The old oil tycoons will milk every penny under the attitude “I got mine.”. Then they’ll die, and we will hope some companies have transitions in place that bring low cost efficient renewable systems long term
🤔 it was made into fancy graphs by the guy on Bluesky but the data was from ember-energy.org who are well known for supplying renewable stats
to be fair, they have about 3x the population too. but nonetheless good to see that they are moving fast. dictatorship works faster when it comes to regulation ¯_(ツ)_/¯ :)
It’s not about regulation. China has almost the complete photovoltaic production of the world. Essentially all panels installed in the rest of the world are also Chinese. It’s about a smart government knowing which technologies to pursue, instead of things like the Spanish “sun tax” of the 2010s that killed whatever solar industry there might have been in the sunniest country in Europe.
oh yeah, that too.
It’s about energy independence. The CCP doesn’t give a fuck about the environment, but not having to bring in energy from out of country is high on any governments priority list.
The dictatorship is fast is a lure, it’s actually not useful, as they run in the direction of the dictator but usually doesn’t adjust or stop in time. Sometimes you see something good coming out if it, but you shouldn’t forget all the bad things they do too.
That said, I hope we’ll have enough solar for everyone in a decade or so!
This has been going on for years and will continue.
China really really really needs a robust and diverse energy infrastructure. Industry needs huge amounts of energy. AI needs huge amounts of energy. The military needs huge amounts of energy.
Coal is unreliable and dirty. Oil can be blocked at the Straight of Malacca and a few pipelines.
China is also the world’s factory. They own the entire logistics chain for producing renewable generators; from raw materials to final assembly. They have all the infrastructure to not only build solar panels and wind turbines at scale, they’ve scaled up building the machines that build them.
Coal is unreliable
How? I would’ve said coal is very reliable, it worked for over a hundred years.
Unreliable may have been a poor choice of words.
You can’t move coal around with pipes or wires. Someone needs to drive trucks full of coal to a power plant.
The pollution from coal tends to have a lot of externalities that drag on the economy. Lost work days, faster equipment degradation, etc.
They use coal but they have practical reasons to want to reduce reliance on coal.
Coal is unreliable and dirty.
China use absurd amounts of coal and they’re not slowing down. They’re the worlds largest producer and consumer of coal. They’re increasing use of all power generation types - coal, solar, nuclear.
Yes. And go check the percentage of coal use over time. Coal is going up. Renewables are going up much faster.
Amazing how fast you can build stuff when there’s safety standards, no environmental regulations, no labour rights and the government can expropriate property without a time consuming legal process!
Though I think a prefer living in a country where I have rights even if it takes a bit longer to build stuff.
We tried getting rid of environmental regulations, safety standards, labour rights, etc. in America and I’m still waiting for when stuff gets built faster… At least the government can’t expropriate property! oh wait… Well at least we still have our rights? oh wait…
I think you call it eminent domain in the US. But I think it can still be challenged in court, but wait a couple months.
Yes, the US is becoming China. You put a guy into power that admires Xi Jinping for the same reason China made Xi President for life: wanted a strongman to run the economy and protect you from evil foreigners. And now you’re getting corporate socialism, just like China has.
Gotta love how you jump to the whataboutism when it comes to good China news. “Yeah sure, they may be saving the environment by going solar, but what about… Uh… Environmental regulation?”
Like, mate, manufacturing 90% of the world’s photovoltaics is the best thing you can environmentally do.
Like america but more competent
To give China credit the solar push was very capitalistic and very well executed. There are so many solar salesmen that will bother you to no end with one offering better deals than another. They come install everything and set up for you and guarantee returns in like 5 years plus mountains of other bonuses. The environment kinda make you feel stupid for not taking the deal too so you’re really pressured which imo is a win.
Though I can’t comment on industrial solar panel fields but the consumer part is very well executed and the rest of Asia is like 10 years behind.
Fully propagandized idiot who will follow you around commenting on all your posts if you say a single nice thing about China btw ^
Good for China on that!
To add some perspective, China is about 2 and a quarter times as large as the EU nations, and according to currentresults.com seems to get a bit more sunshine than the EU does. So the difference isn’t quite as stark as this post makes it seem.
But still, it’s good that China is taking solar power seriously. I didn’t realize they were doing that well.
China are the worlds biggest coal producer and consumer, started building like 100GW of coal power plants last year alone, and are increasing their use of coal every single year.
People getting excited about china’s massive solar power generation are hilarious. Basically unless china stop using coal, the rest of the world being completely net-zero is irrelevant.
How much coal has China cumulatively used in its history compared to the US or Europe? Spoiler alert: much less. Almost as if countries in the process of developing used coal for a reason…
They also expanded coal power, roads, and removed their population limiting policies, though. They produce about 3 times as much CO2 per person as India, Indonesia, and many South American nations, likely many nations in Africa as well but theres a lot of missing data.
Pollution per GDP is a better measure. ourworldindata.org/grapher/co2-intensity Pollution per GNP would be even better but I can’t find it.
Individuals don’t pollution much, it’s mostly industry. Really poor countries often don’t pollution much because they can’t afford to. Sometimes they pollute prodigiously because the only thing they can afford to do is destructive resource extraction. Rich countries can often outsource their pollution to poorer countries.
China has been making mind boggling investments in renewables. They have been expanding all their energy sources but their renewables have the lions share of the growth.
They’ve been building roads and all kinds of infrastructure. That’s what the BRI is all about, even if they’re being a bit quieter about saying the phrase. They like to build their long haul roads on elevated columns; not only because it’s less disruptive to wildlife but because it lets them use giant road laying robots to place prefab highway segments.
They dropped the one-child policy a while back but they’re having some trouble getting people to have more babies. That said, there’s some research that suggests that rural populations around the world are severely undercounted, so they may have a bunch more subsistence farmers than they, or anyone else, realizes.
Why is Polution per GDP a better measure? I don’t care how much they export when they’re killing the planet at a faster rate every year with no intentions to stop it.
Pollution per GDP is a bad measure. Mali has a high CO2 intensity, but the GDP per capita is low, so pollution is low. The best measures are emissions per capita in consumption and production terms. China is not a saint in either of those metrics, being rather close to the EU in both of them today.
It is strategic necessity for China for energy security and for their own environment. Their predominant source of electricity has been coal which they have abundant of but is polluting the air they breathe. Does anyone recall the issues they had at Beijing Olympics? They have insufficient sources of oil and gas domestically. Alternative energy sources are their best domestic source of energy.
Yeah I tracked it back to that, but couldn’t find the graph shown and had no knowledge of the ember.
Having said that, I’m all for the green revolution and would love to see it go harder. As a petrol head the idea of guilt free fuel is like a holy grail
Ain’t that neat! Do they just happen to be the biggest coalie bois too?
True, but the positive dynamics is there.
The country needs a lot of energy, and it does good job making a lot of it renewable/hydro.
the coal industry growth is slowing down
Wow I hope that really really recently changed. Last I checked China was one of the world’s worst polluters, and they reached a 10 year high last year.
carbonbrief.org/chinas-construction-of-new-coal-p…
Please explain how being the #1 coal guy is a “positive dynamic”.
Explain how a 10 year high in Coal is a “positive dynamic” to anyone who isn’t wearing rose-tinted goggles that were made in China.
Your full comment is Rose-Tinted 'See how marginally less shitty China is in X area now compared to Y years ago. ’
Fuckin sad.
Sure but they are moving in a direction. Can you say the same about any other country?
And despite building all our shit, they still actually pollute less CO2 per capita: worldometers.info/…/co2-emissions-per-capita/
I’m curious how much of it they consumed though. I read recently the UK keeps on paying Wind farms (for example) to NOT supply the grid as they don’t need it at certain times, and it wasn’t going into batteries for later either. Just generated and…gone?
They pay the windfarms when too much power is generated for the grid to handle. The wind turbines are then throttled accordingly and the windfarm owners are reimbursed for the lost potential. At least that’s how it goes in Germany. It’s kind of an incentive to upgrade the power grid.
but at what cost!
DaddleDew@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Good on them. The earlier they can shut down those coal plants, the better.
CosmoNova@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
They‘ll keep building more coal power plants in the global south and export coal. There‘s a lot of money to be made.
finitebanjo@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
They’re also actually still building more coal power in mainland China.
Mihies@programming.dev 3 weeks ago
Yep, solar is awesome when you have coal and gas power plants, not so much when you have nuclear ones.
ByteJunk@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
How idiotic.
FishFace@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Solar and nuclear work just fine together. Nuclear is expensive (and most cost effective if kept running all the time, rather than switched on and off) but it reduces the cost of solar (lower proportion of solar means you don’t need as much storage) and hedges against bad weather.
tostiman@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Huh? No
catsarebadpeople@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
???
Wanderer@lemm.ee 2 weeks ago
They are going to keep those coal plants as back up but the amount they use then is decreasing.
At the same time they are rapidly moving transport into electricity and they are growing their electrical demand.
This year should be the tipping point where coal and oil usage drops. Capacity and number of coal is meaningless.