What are we going to do about it?
Sorry for the Google Translate Link. An easy alternative is much appreciated.
Submitted 1 year ago by tfm@europe.pub to fediverse@lemmy.world
What are we going to do about it?
Sorry for the Google Translate Link. An easy alternative is much appreciated.
I hate Reddit, and I hate discord.
I am using discord for a discussion thread of one thing which follows a serial webnovel and it’s infuriating because when something new happens there’s always a constant influx of people asking the same questions because there is no way to pin or highlight pertinent information and no one is going to go scrolling through a million messages searching for the first time the question was asked and answered.
Discussion threads! Not chat messages!
I don’t only hate discord I don’t understand it. I don’t get why a chat server needs threads and most of the functions are useless in general.
heck even in the few servers I am, most of the channels I have them silenced.
I don’t only hate discord I don’t understand it. I don’t get why a chat server needs threads and most of the functions are useless in general.
heck even in the few servers I am, most of the channels I have them silenced.
I don’t really like Discord, but it has both message pinning, threaded conversation, as well as a full blown discussion forum option for community channels. Your complaints seem to be more about the moderation of that specific community than Discord itself.
chat is important for real-time messages (like talking to each other irl), but there should be a wiki/faq that answers frequent questions IMO.
Some other perspective here…
I think that this information would be possible to highlight, you could, for example, have an announcement channel that is read only for the regular users.
However, that doesn’t mean that this will reduce the number of questions though.
Even discord has a search function, granted it is not great but still, if you are willing to search for something you would be able to find it.
But this is the problem. For your regular users, it is much easier to simply ask that redundant question again and again instead of doing the least amount of searching yourself.
Heck, I had questions in some communities in which I copied the question in the title and searched on Google for it and got an answer in the first result.
What I want to say with this is that those redundant questions will be asked regardless of the platform.
What I think is worse about discord, especially as a help or support platform, is that it is a walled garden. All the knowledge accumulated there is locked away and cannot be found unless you are on discord and search for it. At least on reddit or Lemmy, you can still find the answer for something if you are looking for it.
I think that discord can work as a platform but only to a number of users. I have such a thing for a plugin that I am maintaining but there are not even 30 people on there. But I also give direct support and figure out issues that are either because the user did something wrong or it is an issue with the plugin. If it is a reaccuring problem I put that in the wiki or the FAQ otherwise, it is a bug report as a new issue so that the information are something you could find.
Everytime I want to look for modern solutions to newer projects online it’s always in the damn discord. I have like 20 discords in folders just because I feel like I’ll need them to troubleshoot eventually.
That’s really unfortunate
I’m not the best “tech writeup” person, but I might start posting my random issues on Lemmy just so it can be found later just in case Discord goes away too.
On the “up-side” now Console gamers can all be in the voice chat together regardless of platforms
I just closed my The Guardian UK version account. I used to comment on the news stories. I can no longer be arsed because of the stress it causes - 99% of comments are so damn stupid and adrift from reality. Most of the comments are from people who (1) voted Labour in order to get change despite being warned by Labour itself, as well as everyone on the Left, that it was not offering change and (2) are now belly-aching because Labour is too Rightwing for them and no better than Tories. Starmer says he ‘likes and respects Trump’ - what the fuck!?! Leopards are eating Labour voters’ faces and they are lacting shocked? If you say so, your comment gets deleted by the moderators because we are not allowed to be truthful or challenge MSM’s imaginary version of the world which is carefully curated to be cosy and profitable. Fuck 'em all.
I only want to hear from people willing to face reality. I need to find a community that is living in the real world not in some self-indulgent fantasy in their head like most British voters seem to be. I reckon that the age of social media is dead because the age of comfort is over. It was fine wasting time on posting nonsense when you were not watching a coup or seeing WW3 developing in real time or could still believe that whatever happened online, offline life was ticking over normally and you could still feed yourself, access housing, get healthcare, rely on benefits if you were sick or old. All of that safety in real life is gone - so to survive this shock we bunker-down and that means finding your village to shelter with because who wants to bunk with Nazis or cultists?
There will still be social media going forward but it will be fragmented because in times of war, you take a side and you do not fraternise with the enemy. Anyone lamenting this is pretending we still live in the past when you could get along with others and ‘two side’ debates because actually you agreed on 90% of stuff and were disputing details. Now we dispute the nature of reality and fundamental morality and there is no two sides to such existential matters. I mean it has been brewing for almost a decade (i.e. in the west, started much longer ago in places like Russia and ‘untruth no reality stop-think’ probably infected the west from those places) - ever since the rise of 4chan and bizarre conspiracy theorists started undermining reason, was turbo-charged by the pandemic, and started to infect reality via stuff like brexit and MAGA. There is no excuse to be surprised that we are here, it was clearly signposted for years.
I know it is the Far-Right who brought us to this crisis but as a radical Leftist I say ‘bring it on!’ You started this conflict, I am determined people like me will win it. I just need to find my comrades and unite in push-back. I get my inspiration from democracy protests like those currently happening in Serbia, Greece, Turkiye. Why is there nothing like that scale of reaction in USA or UK? Because most people in those places are still feeling comfortable and do not grasp the reality of the crisis they are in. They will not react until it is too late. They frustrate me past expression!
I needed to vent.
It feels inevitable. You stay sane and protect your inner peace. I am in the camp this is not left/right old/young this is rich playing with the poor. There are far more of us and we have a lot of common language.
Welcome to 2015 I guess?
For real. My preferred forum was closed I’m 2015 after 13 years active. Facebook killed it. I will never understand why people chose Facebook over that forum. You could blog and post pictures and chat with people in peace and quiet without having to deal with the entire world looking in on your cringe teenage angst.
Generally, I just remember how all these forums and blogsites that used to make up the internet were pretty much dead and gone by 2017. The art community went from having good platforms like Tumblr and deviantart to having to deal with the nightmare that is Instagram and Twitter. There still hasn’t been a good alternative to artists posting their artwork since Instagram took over. It was a shittification then and it has only gotten worse since. But people now have grown up with this bullshit and therefore they don’t question or demand better. They don’t know what it used to be like to be an artist online. It was fun and inspiring. AI slob hasn’t helped the matter either.
Back in mid 00s I created a forum for fellow classmates to share notes, info on exams and whatever. It was active for a year or a bit more, then someone set up a Facebook page for our group and the forum died in about a month. I could not understand why people migrated so quickly, Facebook group was atrocious when it comes to search functions, any files, notes or anything you didn’t download immediatelly were lost to time never to be seen again. If the forum is still up I’m sure I’d still be able to easily download exam schedules and all notes from all the classes there, with Facebook it was a pain even a week after someone posted. There is something fundamentally wrong with society if an inferior product can sweep the board so easily. People do not care about quality or usefulness of anything, all that matters is marketing and trends.
You are right, but as I sit here and use Lemmy, I can’t help but think while being a perfectly functional forum, it lacks aesthetics. What I’m looking at is Windows 1997 High contrast text editor. It tickles my nostalgia, but I can see why Reddit has a broader appeal. People like gimmicks, as much as they like aesthetics and simplicity.
omg totally, I hate that people do that. I don’t see a way out without introducing digital literacy classes at schools
I was a ‘early adopter’ for technology most of my life. I tried Facebook when it was new. As soon as I signed up for an account, I saw how it was abusive - taking away my choices, treating me like a farmed animal being milked for data. I signed up. And immediately started the process to cancel my account. They tried every trick to stop me closing my account. I do not know if it ever was closed! I did the same with everything else that was new and closed all of it very quickly as it was almost always abusive or time-wasting in some way.
The only stuff I stick with is stuff I consider ethical - which is why I am using Mastodon and Lemmy not commercialised social media. And I tend to use that episodically and then get frustrated and stop using it for months before another flurry of use. Why do I use social media? I guess I use it when I am scared and need reassurance from others. Why do I stop? When I do not get the community care I need. We talk about ‘loneliness epidemic’ in contemporary society. I am not sure its ‘loneliness’ - I live alone and like it. What I feel is fear. Maybe we are ashamed to admit it. I am not ashamed to say it - the prospect of fascism, WW3, loss of a ‘safety net’ does frighten me. It is rational to be afraid! When afraid, you look for others who also feel threatened and you test to see ‘do they have my back?’ If there’s a sense of safety, mutual support, you stay. If there is not, you move on.
Social media ‘works’ if it solves real life problems, if it does not help you stop using it. Sure, kids with no real worries because they are protected by adults can post rubbish online for ‘shits and giggles’ but anyone aged 14 or older quickly loses that privilege as they move into adult life and then they use social media differently - for fun, yes, but also it must help you survive by giving you ideas, comfort, information, encouragement, escape for a bit etc. If it only adds abuse to a hard life, who has the energy for it?
Great comment, I don’t have anything to add just wanted to say so.
People are lazy. Getting people to sign up for a forum has a much MUCH higher inertia than just clicking join in a group on a platform they already have an account for. People will subsequently evidently just “deal” with it’s inadequacies. Reddit has the same advantage, you have one account and subsequently have access to a billion and then some communities.
Don’t worry, the enshittification of both is proceeding well.
Replacements are inevitable in time. This one is growing.
You dont want 90% of the shitheads on reddit.
We don’t really have a choice, unfortunately.
This platform has the downside of day 1 bots, unlike reddit of yore.
It is, though the numbers are depressing.
A site like Reddit grows in its daily active users more than 15x (!!!) entire MAU base of Lemmy. “Reddit migrations” are barely a margin of error for them.
This is excluding, liberal, assumption of bot counts.
I believe this is what they call “preaching to the choir”.
For real I’m here to sing songs.
If anyone is looking for a pretty good list of forums-
You’ve just positively changed my life and that of my friends by posting this link. Thank you so much!!
Excellent list.
That is really helpful. Thank you for posting!
There’s other places with lists for those.
oh damn, why am i just now hearing about this
I for one would want a more open source system where a single guy running a server doesn’t have all the power in the forum. It would be awesome if a fedi form of forums took over and one could replicate all the info as relays.
Like lemmy?
Anyway, there’s nodebb.
It sounds good in principle but would be hard to do in practice because everyone would have to do a lot of work negotiating ‘standards’ (technical stuff and editorial principles like how to handle NSFW content etc) that would apply universally across the federation of forums and as this is all voluntary work it is asking a lot of people.
Message Boards are fundamentally different and I don’t see a lot of value in federating them considering the big message board platform (phpBB) has 25 years of development and is GPL.
Message Boards are more elaborate versions of subreddits/communities. In all of those instances there is still a single entity that has “all the power in the forum”. You can join another lemmy server, but the admin of that community is still the admin, and the entity controlling the server that community is on likewise, controls the community.
I guess you could have a universal account that could be used across different message boards, but Personally I’d hate that.
I see this going further underground as fascism takes over. The corporate influence was bad enough before but with the Nazis in coming to power again, many of us are going to have to dive underground.
Imagine such absurdity. The Internet. The land of “forbidden knowledge.”
So you basically mean something like Lemmy but for forums?
But isn’t Lemmy already a forum-like (i guess) platform? Like there are boards (or whatever they are called here, i don’t remember, “subreddits”) about discussing some topic and you can make threads discussing said topic. Bam, a forum, right?
Or do forums have something that Lemmy (or at this point Reddit) don’t?
Isn’t NodeBB compatible with the Fediverse by now?
Yup. But also note that Lemmy is not redundant. You can bring back this channel but without our conversation. We need redundancy and replication.
Doesn’t that depend on the forums, though? For many organizations, those sites fit the needs perfectly fine. If you don’t care about archiving and you would not be totally screwed if the forum disappeared tomorrow, you’re going to opt for something simple like that.
Yea that’s my issue in this argument too. Saying forums are replacing everything, or even that that’s a big problem is like saying “Swords are disappearing from warfare and that’s a problem” in the late 15th century. We don’t need forums for everything because the format isn’t the only tool we have anymore.
Not everything.
My first real social experience on the internet was on php forums. There are still such forums around and I am still part of a few.
Yeah especially when Teddit or discord flip the script but Reddit’s semi implosion could have led to a resurgence if their Admins hadn’t calmed down
Discord 🤣🤣 is that even end to end encrypted?
Which end to which end?
None. Don’t get caught in oligarchy because they can intercept.
Ass to ass
Indeed, especially since both (Reddit more than Discord admittedly) give out blanket bans on a whim and that means being blocked off from the modern internet, the stakes are too damn high.
Though what do they mean “Disappearing”, isn’t this like pulling the alarm because you just learned “There’s not that many dinosaurs left”
Yep…As someone who got banned from reddit, reddit and discord absorbing the entire internet like a tumor is really not helping my will to live.
When I was banned from Reddit I was devestated, thankfully I’ve come to see it as a blessing in disguise since I’m on lemmy now.
I didn’t have friends on Reddit, I do on Discord though, so if Discord became ban happy I doubt I’d reach the same conclusion
The funny thing about dinosaurs is, some of them evolved into something what that could withstand the climate. It’s just a matter of time before more alternatives come about. Some will be better, but my bet is the majority that people will flock to will have just as much censorship and they’ll just accept it. If you give people the illusion of freedom but restrict them they’ll have no idea.
most of them, but alot of them for niche subjects are still there. theres one i go to where people were banned from reddit (tons of accounts used for linking, OF and advert) basiclaly they are reporting thier experiences the same way here as right there. medical forums is still alive though, as are "joining the military"ones.
DSLReports is gone NotebookReview is gone, and more are disappearing each year. It’s sad to see.
im in a forum that specifically for social media , how to get around bans or how to “make money” using those ban evasion methods.
Sorry for the Google Translate Link. An easy alternative is much appreciated.
Firefox can translate websites locally now.
Sadly it’s not possible to provide links using Firefox Translate. People would have to translate it themselves (i.e. opening in a browser and clicking translate). Depending on the device they likely wouldn’t bother.
Yes.
But you could also leave a link to the source. :-)
Not all languages
It has spanish to english though, at least on my machine.
Indeed, forums are almost gone. In particular, I miss one forum about science fiction, one about aeromodelism, one about electric vehicles (another still exists) and one about anarchism. An interesting hold-out in the country where I live, is a military forum. Mods do a cursory background check, rules say that respectful discussion is the only kind of discussion accepted - ironically, the military forum has a peaceful atmosphere. But it could come crashing down much easier than a social media company.
As for why forums disappeared - I think that people became too convenient. They wanted zero expense (hosting a forum incurs some expenses and needs a bit of time and attention), and wanted all their discussion on one place. Advertisers wanted a place where masses could be manipulated. Social media companies wanted people to interact more (read: pick more fights) and see more ads - and built their environments accordingly. Not for the public good.
Me when I’m fucking banned from some Linux .org forum for no reason (did not read or make a post or even login)
ermmmmm contact the web admins 🤓 how about no?
Forums are extremely unfriendly and need a complete redesign if they hope people will use them
What can we do? What can we do about Meta and Xitter? Just try to show people that there’s another side where the grass actually is greener and invite them to join.
I agree with the previous comments: forums are hard to manage because of trolls, hackers and lack of dedicated resources … The main responsible being, before reddit and discord, the ugly social networks mainly facebook. I hope this company will crumble …
Reddit is literally unusable now. I use old.reddit to browse certain subs but there’s no point commenting or interacting cause pretty much everything gets you banned
I run a forum where the first post was started 23 years ago. Although the activity has drastically gone down during recent years, people still occasionally come by. I’m very happy I kept it up, even though a lot of people switched over to a Discord server.
Recently we had an incident where the sole admin of the Discord server was banned and the whole Discord had to be abandoned and created from scratch. People still keep using this trash! I’m not arguing with them, I’ll just keep an alternative up. One day, when Discord really enshittifies itself to a point where it becomes unuseable, people will be happy for my stubborness. I hope.
(It’s a forum for an obscure space pirate game for the PC - I-War 2.)
I think this is an XY problem.
People keep trying to bring back the old internet ; This is an broken and outdated solution.
The root problem (in my opinion) is that we need to share critical information to the masses, but the masses introduce “tyranny of the majority”. It’s a really tricky problem to figure out, and I really really really want mathematicians working on this.
If you live in the states, the Electoral College exists because they were looking for a practical solution to this problem. Considering the outcomes, it did not work - but there is no shame in this, as I think this is actually a really hard problem to solve.
The only known solution is to not share information to the masses (a.k.a keeping the normies out). In essence, this is what the old internet was - and a large part of what made it great. But this is not correct as it does not meet the criteria of the problem. Nor does it translate well, since your neighbors are apart of the masses.
If anyone has any thoughts on this, please share. If you do math for a living, please gather your friends and make an open-thesis about this.
Ironically posted on lemmy
It’s called Usenet.
What are we going to do about it?
Do nothing, nothing about it. The great hordes of the unwashed have ruined every single place they’ve showed up starting in the early 90s. They don’t want to be saved from the commercialization that has taken over the internet, to the contrary they thrive on it and are willing to put up with nearly anything to attract and keep it.
If most of Reddit shifted over to Lemmy it would get commercialized into a smoking crater. As soon as there’s enough regular people using a thing the companies and venture capitalists will show up and at that point the game is over.
The best of the internet has always been built by and populated with people who don’t fit into a box. It’s that internet people keep trying to bring back but you can’t hold the castle once it’s being assaulted by the normies.
So the solution is to do nothing. Let the normies stay in their palaces of commercialization and corruption. We don’t need them and we don’t them.
artifactsofchina@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I’m so inspired by the Fediverse, the social options we have these days are just magical.
A decade ago, Diaspora got press because they were going to build an alternative to Facebook. But there was hype and then there was disappointment.
Now, everybody knows how terrible legacy social media is. Everybody knows. Sure, most people are still stuck there. But these vibrant alternative places exist! The options are exciting! It is so much better than it’s ever been!
Just keep building. This is great, and it’s only just started.
gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
Lemmy (and Matrix to a lesser extent) gives me the vibes that Nintendo Super Mario Bros gave me around 2008 - just magical, wonder what can be done.