Why would America declaring cartels terrorist organizations be a problem for Mexico?

Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io⁩ to ⁨nostupidquestions@lemmy.world⁩

One thing Trump tried to do after getting inaugurated was considering Mexican cartels terrorist organizations, and for that he was attacked by Sheinbaum for violating Mexico's sovereignty. But, at least as far as I've read on the topic (whcih is not a lot to be fair), nobody actually explains why that's the case. I mean at a glance you'd think the Mexican government would benefit from such an action, or at least I did. It's pretty obvious to me I'm missing a piece of the puzzle, so does anyone here have it?

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phoenixz@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Cheeto doesn’t want to start eats but it’s not his fault, as these terrorist organizations wanted to overthrow the US government or something like that so you see, they have no option but to invade Mexico. Since these cartels also operate in Canada, yeah, no option, they just gave to go in and take over. They’re doing the right thing, really!

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Adderbox76@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
It’s a pretext for invasion. Just like invading Afganistan was to intervene in order to get Al-Queda. Or invading Iraq was about getting the Taliban… etc… etc… etc…

If America wants a war with someone for oil/economic pressure/etc… (really whatever reason they choose to make up) they simply say that there are terrorists there.

I’m calling it now and saying that in two weeks he declares the Quebec Sovereignty movement a terrorist organization for reasons…

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- RowRowRowYourBot@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  They will bomb something for the first time and it will “happen” to be an American business owned by dual Canadian/US citizens.
  
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- Juice@midwest.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  
  Quebec
  
  Yeah if our reality could stop resembling Infinite Jest, that would be great. I can’t stand that stupid fucking book and how accurately it predicts our increasingly insane circumstances
  
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  - Adderbox76@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I’ve honestly never made it through the whole thing.
    
    Tried to, back in the day. It’s one of those things that’s expected of you if you want to be a proper turtleneck wearing, pretentious literati as a university student. (I was a douche, okay…I admit it…it’s the same reason I fought my way through War and Peace and Foucault’s Pendulum) But I’m much better now.
    
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refurbishedrefurbisher@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
After the War on Terror was declared, it meant that the executive branch could essentially go to war with any country if they call them terrorists without former approval from Congress.

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- ryathal@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Even without the war on terror, Congress gave the president the power to wage war for two weeks however they are fit. Congress is supposed to be notified and they can approve more time, but it’s been violated multiple times with no consequences.
  
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- OldChicoAle@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Sounds unconstitutional
  
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  - HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    A problem with the constitution is that the framers didn’t expect items to be defined differently than today. No one really expected a mass deployment of troops that wouldn’t be called a war.
    
    Also, the framers didn’t expect Congress to roll over as much as it has to the President.
    
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  - refurbishedrefurbisher@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    It is, but… you know.
    
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humanspiral@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
If US declares a group in a country to be terrorists US entitles itself to bomb them, and do whatever else seems entitleable.

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kandoh@reddthat.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Civilian Casualties

Afghanistan: Civilian deaths from U.S. military operations have been significant, with incidents such as the deaths of two detainees at Bagram in 2002 due to torture[2][4].

Iraq: Civilian casualties peaked in 2006 with over 29,000 deaths. Between 2003 and 2024, civilian deaths fluctuated, with many unaccounted for due to the chaotic nature of war[7].

Drone Strikes: U.S. drone strikes in countries like Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia have caused numerous civilian deaths, though exact numbers are debated[3][4].

Alleged War Crimes

Torture: The use of “enhanced interrogation techniques” (e.g., waterboarding) at facilities like Guantanamo Bay and CIA black sites has been widely condemned as violations of the Geneva Conventions[2].

Bagram Facility: Inhumane treatment and torture led to the deaths of two Afghan detainees in 2002. Military coroners ruled these homicides[2].

Maiwand District Killings: A “Kill Team” of U.S. soldiers murdered Afghan civilians between 2009–2010 and collected body parts as trophies[2].

Extraordinary Renditions: Suspected terrorists were transferred to third countries for interrogation under questionable conditions[2].

Citations: [1] [PDF] CASUALTY STATUS www.defense.gov/casualty.pdf [2] United States war crimes - Wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes [3] Civilians Killed & Wounded | Costs of War watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/…/civilians [4] [PDF] Annual Report on Civilian Casualties in Connection with United … …defense.gov/…/ANNUAL-REPORT-ON-CIVILIAN-CASUALTI… [5] - THE AUTHORITY TO PROSECUTE TERRORISTS UNDER THE … www.govinfo.gov/content/…/CHRG-109shrg36934.htm [6] Currently listed entities www.publicsafety.gc.ca/…/crrnt-lstd-ntts-en.aspx [7] Civilian deaths in Iraq war 2003-2024 - Statista statista.com/…/documented-civilian-deaths-in-iraq… [8] Global War on Terror | George W. Bush Library www.georgewbushlibrary.gov/…/global-war-terror
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Thcdenton@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Anyone from Mexico here? How do you feel about it?

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- admin@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Como la mierda. Not to be fucked up, but I think it was a matter of time, also Mexico has plenty of lithium deposits that just got discovered in the last 2 years, so go figure.
  
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- Agent641@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  No es bueno
  
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juli@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
They want to do what Russia did to Ukraine. Invade with a false pretense.

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ohulancutash@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
See: Afghanistan, Iraq.

America are the toddlers who have found father’s gun and decide to blast at anyone withholding sugar.

The idea that the American military are competent enough to go after just the cartels is laughable. Not to mention the violation of Mexican sovereignty.

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thezeesystem@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Correcte if I’m wrong, but didn’t the CIA actually make the drug cartels that are in Mexico with the whole war on drugs thing a while back?

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- theneverfox@pawb.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I think the CIA has used them pretty extensively, but I don’t think they set them up directly
  
  What the US did is force Mexico to join in on the drug war. We threatened to block all pharmaceuticals to Mexico if they didn’t ban marijuana, which they really didn’t want to do
  
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- humanspiral@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Drug prohibition is awesome for governments because it means permission to bypass the laws. CIA has definitely funded operations through drugs, and have significant responsibility in crack epidemic. I’m unaware of direct links to Mexican cartels though.
  
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merc@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Terrorist / Terrorism seems to be a magic word in US law and policy.

If a country has organized crime in their country it’s no big deal. If there are close ties between the rulers and the criminals, that’s unfortunate.

But, if the criminals are now labelled as terrorists, then you get to go on the state sponsors of terrorism list, which comes with all kinds of sanctions and restrictions.

If you look at so-called “terrorist” organizations, there’s almost always elements of “terrorist” activities, but also evidence of other random criminal activities, and often legitimate political activities too. Take Sinn Fein, the political arm of the IRA. Some of their funding came from fuel and drug smuggling. So, where you draw the line between a “terrorist” group and a criminal group is pretty arbitrary. I think most people would say that the Mexican cartels are primarily criminals though. While they do kill people in ways that are intended to send a message, the message is generally “don’t mess with our profits” rather than some political ideal.

Every country has some corruption, definitely including the US. So, what happens if a Mexican politician was accepting bribes from Narcos and passing legislation favourable to them? When does that become the state sponsoring terrorism?

Putting the “terrorist” label on Mexican cartels seems like a prelude to doing things that violate Mexico’s sovereignty. If the cartels are merely violent criminal organizations, it’s a problem for Mexico’s government. If they’re “terrorists” then the US can lob missiles into Mexico, because it has a long-standing policy of violating the sovereignty of countries that “harbor” (i.e. contain) terrorists.

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- Ofiuco@lemmy.cafe ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  [deleted]
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  - merc@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Yes, my point is that they don’t have a political ideology.
    
    Like, the IRA was bombing things because the goal was Irish independence. They wanted the UK out of Northern Ireland.
    
    Al Qaeda was bombing things to get the US out of the middle east. They wanted no US troops on Arab soil.
    
    Boko Haram wanted an area to be fully under Muslim law, with no western books or education.
    
    That’s the normal definition of terrorism, a group that’s terrorizing the population in pursuit of a political aim of some kind. It isn’t normally considered terrorism if there’s no ideology involved, and it’s just in defence of a criminal enterprise.
    
    In the case of the narcos, I don’t know of any political aim. I don’t think they have any particular ideology, other than “we want to keep making money selling drugs to Americans”. To a certain extent, I can see how they could be considered terrorists because they’re terrorizing the population, the courts and the government to get their way. But, in the past there has normally been a line drawn between a terrorist organization and a criminal organization.
    
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- angrystego@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  If there are close ties between the rulers and the criminals, that’s ~~unfortunate~~ admirable. FIFY
  
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- humanspiral@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  
  . So, what happens if a Mexican politician was accepting bribes from Narcos and passing legislation favourable to them? When does that become the state sponsoring terrorism?
  
  US has a shaddy history, and near past. Nicaragua contras (freedom fighters???) funded through Columbia/Panama cocaine. Venezuela last election meddling funding Narco gangs to burn things, and previous election, declaring legitimate president to be the main drug lord of the country.
  
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minnow@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
There are a lot of good answers already but I want to add that this changes the situation for any Hispanic people swept up by ICE. If officials feel like they can connect a person to the cartels in any way whatsoever, that individual can now be accused of being a terrorist. This changes the legal process they face, and that’s not good news for them. It’ll be easier to send the person to Gitmo. It’ll be harder to fight for that person’s freedom. They’ll likely be tortured, and anything they say can be used as pretense for further aggression by the Trump administration, both domestically and foreign.

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- Flagstaff@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Dang… I didn’t think of them using this as a way to further chase down deportees…
  
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Burninator05@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Mexico likely feels like the US declaring the cartels terrorist orgs will be a pretext to cross border military attacks/interventions/escapades (I’m not sure what the right word should be here).

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- felixwhynot@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Perhaps “operations”
  
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  - pivot_root@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Of the special variety?
    
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- baldingpudenda@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I think they use incursion :
  1. an invasion or attack, especially a sudden or brief one.
  
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CaptnKarisma@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
It could be a problem as when we declared war on terror decades ago it is fairly vague and unclear on who or where could be invaded. Label them a terrorist org and boom justification to send US troops to Mexico. Given how the US government is now I am deeply concerned. I was against the war on terror then too, yes we got some bad guys but it still does not seem worth all the civilian deaths it takes. We would have needed permanent occupation in Afghanistan too to keep a democratic rule there. Once it ended to me it seems like it was kinda all for nothing.

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Flagstaff@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
It may allow American forces to (more easily?) go down there and run their own operations, potentially refusing to cooperate with Mexican authorities and potentially messing up their own plans and just overall making things muddier and trickier, especially if they rely on sting operations that work better with fewer things going on to provide suspicion or otherwise serve as confounding factors.

With that said, I would imagine that cartels are international terrorist orgs, so I’m not necessarily arguing for or against one side; I’m just trying to imagine why Mexican gov might dislike it.

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- cheese_greater@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Isn’t Sheinbaum associated with the cartels?
  
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  - breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I’ve never seen anything about her in particular. I think this ProPublica investigation is the most in-depth reporting on the relationship between cartels and her political party. They basically allege that cartels paid millions to buy Mexico’s ‘hugs, not bullets’ policy.
    
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sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
It gives america a reason to militarily intervene in Mexico

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- SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Exactly, Mexico knows how we did Afghanistan.
  
  The US invaded on the argument that they were harboring terrorists intent to harm America.
  
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Why would America declaring cartels terrorist organizations be a problem for Mexico?

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Civilian Casualties

Alleged War Crimes