Submitted 1 year ago by Don_Dickle@lemmy.world to nostupidquestions@lemmy.world
These same people also solve seem to give af about the suffering of children outside of the border of the country.
I’ve yet to hear any evangelical cry about dead Palestinian children or the suffering of children on the other side of the American Mexican border.
The death penalty doesn’t control women.
It’s a pastime of liberal pundits to point out that the pro-life governor of some flyover state also supports the death penalty and so on and so forth. We get incredulous and infuriated at their blatant hypocrisy. We call them stupid, which really sets them off […] They don’t think of themselves as self-serving hypocrites or idiots who can’t keep their facts straight long enough to form a cogent argument in continuity with the rest of their ideology. We try to describe this as “cognitive dissonance” or other give other armchair diagnosis that doesn’t fully capture what’s going on. I’d like to give them more credit than that. They clearly believe in something, and in that context their words and actions would make sense, but it’s not what they’re self-advertising when you ask what they believe in.
From still the best description of american conservative thought I’ve read: an essay by u/kin7es: wiki.dlma.com/belief-system-of-republicans
Everyone has a spot on the big food pyramid of the socio-political hierarchy. Good, smart, and hardworking people of merit make their way to the top. Bad, dumb, and lazy people go to the bottom. For convenience sake, this hierarchy is color-coded. In a zero-sum world, everyone who gets to the top has to knock someone down a rung to make room.
I would argue this is how republican voters think. That they’re in the right because they are voting for the right of the individual. But on the other hand I think Republican policy makers give zero shits about a person’s self worth and actualization but rather they know that they need to feed the machine and we need the poor babies born to do so, and on the other hand they can demonstrate some form of moral high ground by deciding life and death.
There’s no death penalty for defrauding elections, molding the healthcare (or really any corporate) system to work for harm and profit, avoiding taxation through infinite shell companies and offshore bank accounts. Those things are celebrated as “beating the system”
Still to this day everyone that claims “Plandemic” is chasing some invisible elite power structure that somehow only includes democrats, without ever getting mad at the corporations that profited immensely off developing covid vaccines and charging market price for them as a portion of the world was dying.
Underlying their shallow morals is a undiagnosed mental condition. More often than not from my perspective its usually a cluster B personality disorder. NPD/BPD or one of the others variants. They simply lack the ability to see their hypocrisy. They lack the basic empathy necessary to realize it. Due to this they a mortally afraid of therapy and are not likely to ever get better. What we have to do is improve identifying them and preventing their illness from destroying those around them. Not likely to happen when so many of them are elected to office. If you haven’t noticed mental health systems in this country are In a shambles. This is not a accident.
Most people aren’t all that well informed and don’t do a lot of crtical thinking about their political positions on things. Many people are only guided by their emotions.
If your Church says that life begins at conception, then abortion is killing babies. So you’d be angry about abortions happening.
If you hear a horrible crime, you’re angry about that and might want the person that did that crime to be executed. If you never hear about or think about innocent people being execute, never consider the ethical problems with a government killing people, never consider the costs of it, and all the other arguments against the death penalty, then you can go through life thinking there’s no problem with it.
And even if you hear the rational arguments, they get overpowered by emotion the next time someone says “abortion is murder” or you hear about a horrible crime happening that might qualify for the death penalty.
This. People are not that complicated
Kind of seems like a contradiction
They don’t care. There’s no point in calling conservatives out on hypocrisy. Only a very small number of them will give a shit, and those will be the ones who were already having doubts.
Precisely this. From a philosophical-logical POV, it doesn’t make sense. From the POV of establishing and maintaining power/ dominance/ oppression/ hegemony, however, it’s the only thing that makes sense.
They would argue that the “baby” is innocent.
So was the guy they executed the other day right? So innocence might not be it either
Because they don’t care about “life”.
They care about punishing people.
An unwanted unplanned baby is punishment for having sex outside of marriage.
Death penalty is punishment for being convicted of murder.
It’s perfectly consistent when you look at it all about punishment.
The cruelty is indeed the point
They’re obsessed with punishment. A lot of them see unwanted pregnancy as a just punishment for recreational sex.
Because they’re goddamned thoughtless morons.
contradiction
You’ve discovered conservative politics. Party of freedom that wants to restrict women’s access to healthcare, books in schools, reproductive rights, healthcare for children, etc.
Ain’t Taliban follows the method of Eradicating women empowerment!
Punishment fetish.
Because they are hypocrites, once that baby leaves the womb they give zero fucks.
Don’t get an abortion, also we aren’t paying for that kids lunch
The suffering is the point. It’s got nothing to do with morals or human rights or the death penalty or abortion or “Christian values”. It’s all about making “those people” suffer.
Punishment. They aren’t against abortion, they’re pro punishment. They don’t think any laws should be about mitigation or helping, only as a means of punishing.
It’s in how they talk, “she should have kept her legs closed”, “that’s what you get for being a slut”, “if you don’t want to have a baby, don’t have sex”. The pregnancy is a punishment for anyone who wants to have sex, but doesn’t want to have children. And jail or death is the punishment for avoiding that previous punishment.
When taking about gun control, too, “why should I - a law abiding citizen - be punished for the actions of a few criminals?” “ShAlL noT bE INfrInGeD”. They don’t want laws to do anything but punish. Mitigation? Expansion of freedoms of “them”? No
Look at voter ID laws, they’re restrictive to our freedom, but proposed as punishment for “fraud”.
And it often stems from an individualistic and Evangelical ideal. Everyone is “responsible” for their actions. There are no systemic issues in the mind of an evangelical. God is punishing the individual. The laws are punishing individuals. We don’t need to change, because we includes I, and I don’t need to change, because “I’m a good Christian warrior in the fight against evil”.
And evangelicals definitely think there is a spiritual war going on, so punishment of the “wicked” is always an option. Because being wicked is an individual issue.
(Also why they think drug addiction is a moral failing of the individual, not a societal one, and therefore they should be punished).
Right now, evangelicalism and their Christofascist views are moving into political positions of power. They have tons of money coming in, and even if Fuckface 45 (their evangelical God-king warrior) doesn’t get into office, they’ll still continue to influence policy and grab seats of power.
We need to be aware of them, and stop them at every pass.
I’ll just say that able minded people, usually adults, are usually responsible of their actions.
Ok, and?
There’s no logical contradiction between believing that some people should be killed and believing that other people shouldn’t be killed. You might as well ask why a soldier would shoot at his enemies but not his allies.
Because people receiving the death penalty theoretically did something wrong, and fetuses did not. I’m neither against abortion nor pro death penalty, and I don’t really see a contradiction there.
That wasn’t so hard, was it? People tripping over themselves to find a gotcha and forgetting to use a little common sense.
Former Christian here.
This is it. Criminals have (theoretically) been proven guilty. Some crimes are worthy of death.
A fetus (ahem unborn baby) has cast no sin and does not deserve death.
Christians would also say that they would never get out to death because they would never do anything wrong but when you bring up the fact that Jesus himself said you should be willing to suffer even to the point of suffering on a cross, they start changing the subject.
To be fair to those people (which, I really don’t want to be), I’m pro-choice but strong against the death penalty. So I guess it swings both ways.
it doesn’t swing both ways. They are claiming the position of being “pro life” which is clearly hypocritical. You are not claiming to be “pro death” or “anti life”.
That’s a good point, actually. I hadn’t thought it through enough.
It’s not all the same people: Roman Catholics, for example, tend to oppose both.
Roman Catholic doctrine opposes both, but the bishops don’t go around threatening to withhold religious services for politicians who allow the death penalty like they do with pro-choice politicians…
I could have sworn that there was a news story of Peloci being denied the sacrament due to her supporting an abortion bill.
I blame religion.
Arguably, an unborn baby cannot be guilty of anything. But an adult sentenced to death is often guilty of some horrible crime. So if you accept killing as a punishment, there is no contradiction.
Until you realize that our court system is FULL of false arrests, and the courts have some stupid high number like 98% conviction rate.
They say “take the deal, or the court will fuck you”.
2 years vs 30 years.
And then later they run a second trial for something else that has a death penalty as the outcome. The jury is shown this guy, already in prison, for a semi-related charge. Already convicted of the other charge. So his ability to appear innocent is already swayed. And now suddenly there’s no deal. The court goes full hammer. The jury is made to believe he did it 100%.
And he can’t say he didn’t do it, and wasn’t even there, because he ALREADY pleaded guilty to the other charge which would place him there.
So now you got a populace, who wasn’t in either court session, not seeing how this escalated, and not willing to believe our court system may be flawed. Just kill the criminal and move on, right?
Just guessing here, but I’d assume it’s because the unborn have potential and the bad guys had their chance. I don’t agree, but that’s what I assume being around some people like that…
You are a bad man and you should feel bad about yourself
I immediately recognized your username. Maybe take a break from the asshole shtick for sometime… and also from online.
Well, I at least thought it was a little funny.
As someone recently told me, they don’t worry about saving lives, they worry about saving souls.
You need to abide by the quaint rules of the magical sky daddy for that, even if they don’t make sense.
But the Skyfather himself has given us directions to induce a miscarriage with a tabernacle dust smoothie.
I dont think it really has anything to do with that. A state recently sued due to abortion and teen pregnancy reduction efforts leading to decreased teenage pregnancy rates arguing something along the lines of our populations are going down and it will cost us in population, political representation, and federal resources.
This is about cheap/free labor, permanent disabled and poverty-stricken underclasses that keep everyone on up in line with the hierarchy
Except clearly any aborted fetus would immediately go to heaven based on what’s written in the bible. In fact, heaven should be absolutely completely full of dead babies based on miscarriages, stillbirths, etc. if you believe that they get a soul at the moment of conception.
So that logic doesn’t really make sense either. Which is par for the course.
Actually, nobody goes to heaven when they die (according to the bible). Everyone must wait until judgement day when all the graves, etc, open and we all face judgement at that point. This surprised me when I first learned it because it goes against all the Christian culture I’ve ever been taught and experienced.
So grandma isn’t currently in heaven no matter how good she was.
I was juuuuuuust about to explain how making sense isn’t a requirement to them, until I saw your last sentence. Then I knew you already get it.
Uhh no? Non-baptized souls go to limbo according to Christian theology.
Walk_blesseD@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 year ago
Because with reactionaries, the cruelty is the point.