At this point, I would argue that Israel has done more for Hamas PR and popularity than anything in the last 20 years.
Comment on [deleted]
kSPvhmTOlwvMd7Y7E@lemmy.world 7 months ago
We can criticize Israel, while condemning Hamas terrorists
MuuuaadDib@lemm.ee 7 months ago
HawlSera@lemm.ee 7 months ago
I was pissed off at Israel when I learned that we can’t have a single-payer Health Care Program because we are too busy funding the one Israel has. Learning how they treat Palestinians just puts a seal on the fuck Israel deal.
I_Fart_Glitter@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Israel is a little bigger in area and population than the SF Bay Area. We don’t lack single payer health care because we are paying for Israel’s. We don’t have it because our government is in the pockets of those who benefit from us not having it.
HawlSera@lemm.ee 7 months ago
Oh I understand that, but I do despise the hypocrisy that America Rejects single-payer healthcare claiming that they can’t afford it, but they are willing to fund it for people who are not our people. Charity is one thing, but foreign aid should never come at the expense of One’s Own people. While I understand the situation is bigger and more complicated than that, and that most foreign aid is just code for funding military operations and bases, it’s still irks me that a single Cent is being given out in foreign aid when we have people who are starving and dying on the streets.
I would be all for America first if it actually meant anything outside of a racist dog whistle.
okamiueru@lemmy.world 7 months ago
There is absolutely nothing the US does in regards to foreign policy that comes at the expense of accessible healthcare. The US already spends more per capita than any other country.
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 months ago
Because individual purchases (bandages, pills, hospital bed rental) costs over twice as much in the States than it does anywhere else. And those who do afford it get inferior care.
HawlSera@lemm.ee 7 months ago
Breaks your heart doesn’t it?
SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
The US actually spends more public money on healthcare per capita than almost any other country. And then Americans pay for private insurance on top of it. And for all that, many Americans don’t even get healthcare. Contrary to libertarian propaganda, a publicly funded program is more efficient, as are many publicly funded services over their privatized alternatives.
HawlSera@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Well obviously, a public refunded program seeks only to fulfill the goals of the program. Meanwhile a private organization is not beholden to customers or workers, but to shareholders
Mammal@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Fun fact: We also built a single-payer system in Iraq.
Microplasticbrain@lemm.ee 7 months ago
We can also condem israel for creating this entire situation
Death_Equity@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Blame the British and the holy scrolls.
jimbo@lemmy.world 7 months ago
I mean, I suppose if you ignore all history up until like a few weeks ago that makes sense.
SparkyLight@lemmy.world 6 months ago
the same israel which offered countless peace offers to the Palestinians(which promptly rejected them) or the same israel that literally pulled out of gaza entirely leaving them the full option to make a thriving city state like Singapore, but instead they decided to buy guns and rockets and make everyone’s life miserable?
Nalivai@discuss.tchncs.de 7 months ago
Do you think if Hamas dissappear tomorrow, those who throw garbage will stop?
newDayRocks@lemmy.world 7 months ago
If the elements of Hamas, namely the promising of death to all Israelites from Palestinians disappeared, then relations would improve and yes the garbage would stop. But it would still be a process that takes time to build trust between the people.
ASeriesOfPoorChoices@lemmy.world 7 months ago
I love your optimism.
But that’s like “America elected a black president, so now there’s no more racism”.
You’re not wrong-wrong, but it will take a lot more than just time. Systemic changes need to happen too.
newDayRocks@lemmy.world 7 months ago
I don’t agree with your analogy.
What I said was more along the line of, “America electing a black president is a major step to eliminating racism, and it wouldn’t happen overnight.” I’d point out that I’m just fixing your analogy, not that I am making that statement.
Part of the systematic change requires one side to not want the complete elimination of the other.
hamid@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Remind me how did the the reservations in the US go for people like the Osage even after they signed treaties? Oklahoma is still Indian country, right?
Gabu@lemmy.world 7 months ago
You’d have to be braindead to believe that. This is a 70 year ongoing conflict.
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 months ago
The reverse. If the garbage throwers stopped, if the Israeli state ensured that Palestinians were treated humanely and were ensured civil rights (say in accordance with the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights) then Palestinians would have no need for revolutionary organizations like Hamas or Hezbollah. But so long as the Israeli state disregards the suffering of Palestinians, so long as Israelis are allowed to commit violence against Palestinians, so long as the IDF seeks to massacre Palestinians, there will be need for militants to fight against them, and so Hamas and Hezbollah will find cause and find recruits among the friends and family slain in Israel’s name.
The thing is we all know this. This is COIN 101 material from two to four centuries ago. And short of the threat of nuclear holocaust, humans historically are eager to hate more than they are willing to do what is right to create and preserve peace. Netanyahu and the IDF have demonstrated to be no different, even when the US warned them of its own hard-learned lessons in Fallujah. Gaza is proving to be even worse than was predicted.
No1@lemmy.world 6 months ago
[deleted]Honytawk@lemmy.zip 6 months ago
And why do you think they hate Jews?
Because of how Israelis treat them.
agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
Ted Kaczynski made a lot of really solid points, but bombing people, especially civilians, is wrong.
People still cheer for Luke Skywalker though.
Humans are more tribalistic than rational. They pick sides and justify later.
HawlSera@lemm.ee 7 months ago
The Death Star was a military installation that had already shown itself to be aggressive with death tolls in the literal billions. Not a fair comparison.
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 months ago
To be fair, Tarkin misused what was clearly a mining tool. Planets are too valuable a resource to blast into high-velocity debris. The Tarkin doctrine only works if Imperial policy is fair to begin with (which it isn’t) otherwise it is the reverse of common COIN theory (hearts and minds).
Tarkin behaved stupidly and provoked a terrorist attack that successfully (and spectacularly) disabled a huge Imperial asset.
DeepGradientAscent@programming.dev 6 months ago
Many Bothans died to bring me this coffee this morning.
HawlSera@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Yeah I never understood that about star wars, like why are they so keen on blowing up planets. I know that’s an incredibly evil thing to do, but what the hell did they get out of it?
I actually like the sequels, but the fact that every threat had to be a planet destroyer, despite the fact that that makes absolutely no fucking sense to anyone trying to establish long-term dominance over a region, just made no fucking sense.
B1ackmsth@lemmy.ca 7 months ago
Yeah but the second time it wasn’t even finished yet. They were still under construction.
lolcatnip@reddthat.com 7 months ago
It was pretty clear what the purpose of it was.
Facebones@reddthat.com 6 months ago
We can condemn violence, while recognizing that it didn’t come about in a total vacuum as people play it up as to paint Palestinians as evil terrorists.
Soulg@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Correct. Hamas is an evil terrorist group that slaughters innocent people and also Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people and need to stop, or be stopped. But not by killing random people, because this isn’t the bronze age anymore.
masquenox@lemmy.world 6 months ago
No, seriously - give me a good reason to condemn Hamas. As long as they are the only ones willing to lift a damn finger against a white supremacist settler-colonialist state they will receive no condemnation from me.
ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 7 months ago
And we can make aid to Israel contingent on future improvements on the treatment of Palestinians.
LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 months ago
(And prosecute the IDF and Israeli state in international Court for crimes against humanity)
qdJzXuisAndVQb2@lemm.ee 7 months ago
I like this, we should do this, for sure. Nobody can claim it’s unfair.