Sustaining Proton’s mission over time | Proton

Submitted ⁨⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨starman@programming.dev⁩ to ⁨technology@lemmy.world⁩

https://proton.me/blog/sustaining-mission-over-time

Proton’s mission, funding sources, independence, and community are some of the reasons we’re more resilient than other privacy-first companies.

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downhomechunk@midwest.social ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I’m happy to support these guys, and I feel like I pay a fair price for the services I get.

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- CucumberFetish@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  What I love about them is that recently they had more people buying their password manager, than they planned for. This reduced the cost per user for them.
  
  Instead of pocketing all of the profit gained from it, they sent out an email to all of their paid users, to let them know that they can now update their subscription for a discount.
  
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  - daed@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    It’s fuckin weird to see a company make a decision based on the long term retention of their customers rather than short term profits… I like these guys.
    
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  - plz1@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    That’s so surreal in this day & age. I can’t think of any other example where that happened. I use Bitwarden because I don’t want all my eggs in one basket, even for Proton who I trust. But good on them for doing a solid for their customers instead of bowing to the forces of pure capitalism.
    
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BertramDitore@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I finally upgraded my free account on Black Friday, couldn’t be happier. I so appreciate this kind of transparency and candor.

We are not billionaire subsidized, government subsidized, or even donation subsidized. Rather, we derive almost all of our revenues from selling services directly to users in a profitable way. Proton services are never going to be the cheapest, we’re not going to have flashy promotions, unlimited “lifetime” plans (unless it’s for charity), or offers that are too good to be true. Not just because it doesn’t suit us, but because it doesn’t suit the mission. Instead, we will charge a fair price that reflects our costs and can deliver long-term stability.

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akilou@sh.itjust.works ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Is this in response to Skiff shutting down?

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- fuzzzerd@programming.dev ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Yes, it’s mentioned in the post.
  
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  - akilou@sh.itjust.works ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Not directly, I had to click through to a reddit post
    
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- phoneymouse@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Fuck skiff!!! Dirt bags took the devils money and sold out their user base
  
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Zerfallen@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I hope they might consider a Proton Photos, since Google Photos really holds me to Google Drive. And Proton AI for working with documents on Proton Drive.

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- Steve@communick.news ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Proton Photos as a simple archive sure. Drive can already do that.
  
  But they won’t be able to do any of the fancy AI driven features, as they would all require Proton to have direct access to the images. That goes against the whole idea of Proton.
  
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  - daftwerder@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    It would be cool if they offered a local client to do the AI processing but it’s not hard to see a few problems with that. It would be pretty difficult to sustain.
    
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  - Zerfallen@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I am not asking for a replacement to Google Drive, since that’s clear, I’m asking for a replacement to Google Photos, which means I’m referring to the functionality that makes Google Photos a separate product to Google Drive (aka, the fancy AI features, automatic image compression, automatic sorting, albums, search, etc).
    
    I don’t know if it goes against Proton’s philosophy, that’s kind of besides the point. I’m just saying that for me to move from Google’s suite, as I would like to, this would be a blocker for me with Proton. It’s fine if Proton doesn’t want to address that market, it just means I personally would find it difficult to make the switch (and likely wouldn’t) even though I like a lot of what Proton is doing.
    
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  - hydration9806@lemmy.ml ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Actually it is possible to do it locally! A photo management service called Ente.io is already implementing it.
    
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- HerzogVonWiesel@sh.itjust.works ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Can I interest you in a great self-hosted alternative Immich? Been using it for nearly a year now, amd its getting better every few months.
  
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  - Zerfallen@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I’m sure it can work well for many others, so thanks for the recommendation, but personally I’m not interested in self hosting.
    
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  - stratosfear@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Thank you for this, been looking…
    
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- akilou@sh.itjust.works ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Proton Drive can already automatically back up your phones photos. What else do you want? Albums?
  
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  - Zerfallen@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    All the things that make Google Photos a separate product to Google Drive… that’s what I’m talking about.
    
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  - PlexSheep@feddit.de ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Yeah, that works fine.
    
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- werefreeatlast@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Have a look at photoprism. It’s self hosted.
  
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- Confound4082@lemmy.ml ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  They just released one a few months ago
  
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ChiefGhost295@lemmy.one ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Interestingly, the article mentions twice how Proton doesn’t do flashy marketing campaigns when that is precisely the aspect people have criticized Proton for years, usually around Black Friday when they portray the discount as much better than what it is.

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- Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I think it’s more like… They don’t do high dollar marketing strategies like superbowl advertisements.
  
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suckmyspez@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I like proton but I hate their Black Friday discounts. Why not just make the products fairly priced all year round? Why should we have to wait to get good value?

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- scottrepreneur@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Ask JC Penny
  
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Mobilityfuture@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I’m scared to use my Proton email address much because I’m worried it will get filled with Spam like my gmail address :-/

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- Confound4082@lemmy.ml ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  That’s what the email alias company that proon bought last year and rolled into subscriptions is for.
  
  Also, if you buy your own domain, which from cloudflare is like $10/year, you can turn on catchall and use anything@yourdomain and have it delivered. Then, if one of your anything addresses gets compromised, you just block all email going to there and move on.
  
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  - PersonalDevKit@aussie.zone ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I find unless you use the proton password manager the alias feature is too hard to manage from mobile anyway.
    
    Maybe I’ll convert from my current manager to it, but I do like the idea of alias emails.
    
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  - Mobilityfuture@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    This is the help I was seeking :-)
    
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- CrayonRosary@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  People have given you some good ideas, but here’s another: DuckDuckGo has free email aliases. You generate a “duck” address and it’s just some random email address that gets forwarded to your real email address while also blocking any trackers in the emails. And you can easily turn them off.
  
  It’s free and you don’t even have to make an account of any kind. To “log in” to their web browser and use this feature, all they do is send you an email with a link to click to make sure own that target email address. Then you can generate unlimited aliases that get redirected to it.
  
  There’s also a master duck address that you make up manually. I guess that’s technically an account and that’s the one you “log in” with if you install the browser on another device. You don’t have to actually use their browser, and they even have a plugin for Firefox to generate the aliases.
  
  Not as easy as having your own domain and forwarding email going to any address to your real account, though. But it’s totally free.
  
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PlexSheep@feddit.de ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
While good, a lot of features and services in proton are still half baked. I have ultimate.

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- stratosfear@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  What bothers you the most?
  
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  - Huschke@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Not OP, but the lack of Linux support is my biggest issue with them.
    
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  - PlexSheep@feddit.de ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Generally, compatability:
    
    No SMTP (so I can send emails automatically from my servers for logs etc), no calendar sync, email sync is only hacky with the bridge, android does not have email sync at all, no contacts sync.
    
    The calendar does not show the birthdays of contacts.
    
    Proton drive for me is useless because no GNU/Linux client (if it comes, pls just make it something I can run headless).
    
    There is more, but that’s what I find most annoying. If I have to chose one of these then I’d say that the groupware stuff needs to be synced to any client easily (includes calendar and contacts IMO)
    
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bloup@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

In the early days […] we often received a question along the lines of “I love the product and what Proton stands for, but how do I know you will still be around to protect my data 10 years from now?” […] Ten years and 100 million accounts later, we would like to think we have proven the point with our track record, but actually the question is just as relevant today as it was 10 years ago[.] […] Proton was not created to get rich[, …] but rather to address the […] problem of surveillance capitalism. […] Proton has always been about the mission and putting people ahead of profits […] and there is no price at which we would compromise our integrity. Frankly speaking, […] if the goal was to sell for a bunch of money, we could have done that long ago. […] Most businesses are built to be sold — we built Proton to serve the mission.

My problem is there’s literally ways you can organize a business that makes literally impossible to legally do these things. When businesses say these things, but don’t acknowledge the reality that they could always recharter the business in such a manner where you don’t just have to trust them to behave with no recourse if they don’t, I always have to add “but we still will continue to reserve the right to sell you out but pinky promise we won’t ever do it”

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- xylogx@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  “ …ways you can organize a business that makes literally impossible to legally do these things. ”
  
  Not disputing this is true, but could you provide some examples?
  
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  - CrayonRosary@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    They’re talking about making it a nonprofit, I’m sure. People working for nonprofits can have good salaries, and any profit can be reinvested into the company or donated to other nonprofits. But you can’t sell the company to a for-profit (I don’t think), and the ownsers can’t take all of the profit for themselves.
    
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nyakojiru@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I fuckong don’t want to spend more money in services. It’s a nightmare. That’s why I started dig into self hosting in combination with some core services that I would like to keep to stay into the practical part and don’t spend time configuring shit.

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- Swarfega@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Which is fine. But self hosting has multiple complexities. It’s not just a case of installing and configuring a mail server. Maintenance, security, electric costs etc just add up.
  
  I’d sooner have working emails and leave all the management to the provider.
  
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  - daed@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I think even the most hardcore self hosting guys would probably caution most against setting up their own mail server too. One of the few things that has too many caveats to make self hosting make sense.
    
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  - CucumberFetish@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Keeping a simple nas alive, with automated backups from linux + windows based machines with proper authentication already sometimes feels like a second job. Hosting all of your own services is way more effort than people realise
    
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- ForrestGrump@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Damn companies, constantly taking money for their services and stuff.
  
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pathief@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I love Proton and what they stand for but their Linux support is unfortunately quite bad. Everything feels half baked, at most.

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asbestos@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I’ve keep seeing amazing things regarding proton in recent years, I think I’m overdue for a switch

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- sheogorath@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I did the switch. Even if there’s no PPP pricing for my region it’s quite alright. I’m planning to migrate my whole family to Proton in the near future. We already have our chats with Signal and one other last thing is for media backup. We’re still using a combination of Google Photos and OneDrive to save our photos. Are there any good privacy oriented data storage solutions? I’m also saving up money to spin up my own self-hosted solution.
  
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  - zarenki@lemmy.ml ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    If you’re planning to subscribe to Proton Unlimited or Proton Family regardless, you might as well try Proton Drive. They try to be fairly privacy focused similar to Proton’s other products.
    
    Mega has a similar privacy-oriented design. Such that the server side shouldn’t have direct access to your unencrypted file data or its decryption keys.
    
    Still, any web-based service necessitates trusting the JavaScript you receive not to leak out your password or keys. Both Proton and Mega have a good track record so far in that regard, but the best practice for privacy with raw data storage is to encrypt your own data with local tools and treat any remote server as untrusted.
    
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  - Lazhward@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Proton includes cloud storage and recently started supporting automatic backup of pictures on your phone.
    
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  - juststoppingby@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Proton has their own cloud storage called Proton Drive. If you buy the top VPN tier I think it includes all of the premium Proton services, Drive included. I think it’s like 500 gigs for a single user account and 2 terabytes if you get the family account.
    
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  - NarrativeBear@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Mega was my option for family photo storage. Mainly used for instant upload to a shared folder between all of us.
    
    As an added step, with some automations, my NAS server (TrueNAS) would sync my mega photo album to my local Nas storage. Files older than two years would be purged from mega and archives on my home NAS would stay intact.
    
    Since then though I swapped mega out with my own personal self hosted nextcloud instance.
    
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Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
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- e_mc2@feddit.nl ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Wild suggestion here. Type the word “Proton” in your search engine of choice and almost blindly click on the first link that comes up. Take as long as you need.
  
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  - TheDarksteel94@sopuli.xyz ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    That. Or they could just read the article. Wild idea, I know lol
    
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Alpha71@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I prefer mail.com it’s just easier to type out and remember.

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- MacStache@sopuli.xyz ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Proton use a pm.me shortening for their services so checkmate, mate.
  
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  - Alpha71@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    still too expensive though.
    
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