Submitted 11 months ago by L4s@lemmy.world [bot] to technology@lemmy.world
Senator Warren calls out Apple for shutting down Beeper’s ‘iMessage to Android’ solution::U.S. Senator Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) is throwing her weight behind Beeper, the app that allowed Android users to message iPhone users via iMessage,
What’s the post of asking questions when this community just downvotes? Why even have a forum if it’s only use is to.upvote things that agree with your pre established opinions?
I’m having a brain fart, what movie is this from again? I remember the scene but can’t remember the movie
Your primary contribution to this conversation is to bitch about how no one engages with you? I see users responding to you but then all you are responding back with is editing your comment to say “thanks for answering”? Idk man… maybe it’s your approach to dialogue. Being super dismissive and retaliatory tends to bring downvotes.
I had asked the same question and was downvoted to -10 before I deleted it and reposted it.
Oh no! You got downvoty wotied!
Now what? We gonna stop posting just because of a little red number? That’s stupid.
Honestly it’s hard to see how messages don’t fall under the protection of net neutrality.
I mean they do, but that doesn’t mean a message platform can’t platform lock itself.
The ISP isn’t discriminating… that’s net neutrality.
I think you might be a bit confused.
It just feels like users being restricted to not having any incoming or outgoing communication across operating systems is discriminating. The reason Beeper’s previous and current solutions stopped working is because they started blocking it. If Apple had successfully built a protocol that couldn’t be accessed by Android devices then that would be one thing, but they failed to do that and now they’re discriminating against otherwise valid connections.
Net neutrality effectively ending under Trump might clear it up
Ah, you’re right, the reimplementation of some of the old rules was voted to pass in October 2023 so it’s probably still in the works. Damn.
Did Beeper clear its usage of the iMessage platform with Apple? Sign a contract? Get an SLA agreement with Apple in writing?
I was under the impression that they found essentially a back door/work around to latch into the iMessage platform… in that case this is no different than Cisco patching some routers or MS fixing a security hole. If anything I’d be more annoyed that Apple didn’t patch it quicker.
I’d love to be able to use iMessage with my android friends, but Beeper’s methods seemed sketchy as hell.
While it’s not mostly about security, and I generally agree that Apple’s dickitry with regard to iMessage should end (they’d be doing a solid in the US to just release an Android client and monetize via sticker packs or something like it) there is most certainly a security risk for Apple to allow a reverse-engineering of their spec to spoof real iPhones, which is how Beeper works.:
pypush is a POC demo of my recent iMessage reverse-engineering. It can currently register as a new device on an Apple ID, set up encryption keys, and send and receive iMessages!
Now, your quote and the others in this thread:
Beeper didn’t find a security hole, nothing was compromised for Apple.
They sure as fuck did, lol. iMessage isn’t public, it’s not intended to be used by anyone other than Apple, and the bandwidth and servers are not free. Its not as if every iMessage isn’t going through Apple’s servers, they’re paying for it. Though they didn’t find a technical hole like a zero day or compromise iMessage for customers, they absolutely found a security concern for Apple. If you walk in to your house, find your neighbor there grabbing a couple of eggs out of the fridge and they hand wave away and say “don’t worry I didn’t break a window, I just figured out you keep a spare key under the mat and also I’m going to use these to make cookies for the block party and I’m not going to charge a lot for them and only you have these eggs from your chicken you’re hogging them!” you’d kick them out in a hurry and probably call the cops.
So two things:
It was an exploit that mimicked the device as apple hardware, but it wasent sketchy. Everything was still e2ee, with beeper having no access to any data.
It was the exact opposite of what the nothing “middleman” did that was actually sketchy.
It was an exploit
…
but it wasent sketchy
Ah yes, businesses based on exploits. Very not sketchy.
I’ve only heard this particular stance from iPhone users.
Apple has done a stellar job propagandizing their brand as the “Good guys… just looking out for their customer’s best interests, is all”.
No evidence for this take whatsoever; it’s just naked, gullible brand loyalty.
Kind of an amazing phenomenon, if it weren’t so sad.
I’ve got both. iOS for work, android for personal use. I’m in DevSecOps and therefore tend to see everything from this sort of mindset. Apple didn’t make a deal with them, they don’t have an open standard. It’s proprietary, it’s locked down. Why would any company with that sort of a product allow another company to interface with their offerings without paying for it? Even if it’s nice and secure, this will add load to the iMessage servers that people aren’t paying Apple for. It could introduce errors/issues they never tested for because they have a closed ecosystem and only have to test with their own devices, a known quantity. It could even increase potential attack vectors.
If you offered wifi to your friends via a guest network and then someone figured out how to connect their whole neighborhood to it, would you be fine with that?
What’s the choice? Apple isn’t going to license it for all the tea in China.
It’s entirely different in that it was not a vulnerability or exploit of any kind and actually improved the security of Apple’s users.
I have such a love/hate relationship with my senator.
Get the fuck out of here with your nuance. You have no business being on the internet.
If it accessed the message system directly then it makes sense. They’re was one just before it that ran on Mac mini farms.
Beeper Mini registered your phone number with Apple and connected directly to the iMessage servers. That version was killed after three days of usage. The mac mini farm still works but that’s just through an apple ID email address.
I recall reading somewhere that you could register your number by putting your SIM card in some old iPhone and activating iMessage and your number gets linked to your Apple ID, once that’s done, you could power off the iPhone and put it back in your Android. Although there was some caveat like needing to repeat this process a few months(?) or something otherwise your number would drop out. Not sure if all of this still works though.
They’re was one just before it that ran on Mac mini farms.
Pretty much every other service ran on what I assume are MacOS VMs, because buying a $3k MacBook for every user would not make sense.
BlueBubbles, Sunbird, Beeper, etc.
Why should our government care about this? I’ve been on android for over a decade now, I have 0 interest in this imessage bullshit and I don’t understand why our government representatives care
What benefits are there to expanding this system? Why should they waste resources spending time on this?
Also this community would rather just downvote than actually have a discussion. Engage with me instead of downvoting me this time, stop downvoting things you disagree with, this isn’t reddit. I’m contributing to the conversation and you have an opportunity to explain the reasons behind this
Messaging interoperability between the two major mobile platforms greatly affects communication for those of us who have friends and family on the other platform. Cross-platform messaging allows us to communicate no matter which platform the friend or family member happened to buy. Blocking this feature is anti-competitive and detrimental to communication.
The entire purpose of government is to help make society better for all of its members. Some government representatives may decide that ‘better for society’ would be to allow the corporation to maximize profit even if it harms the consumer. This particular politician believes that society would benefit from this interoperability and that the company may be overstepping anti-competitive monopoly boundaries by blocking it.
Whether you agree with the idea or now, and whether it affects you personally or not is immaterial. It affects society at large and the government is supposed to represent members of its society.
It’s nice that you either don’t use SMS or all of your family/friends are on Android, or you simply don’t have family/friends, but for the rest of us, we would like to send pictures to our grandma without her complaining that it’s pixelated and tiny because she has an iPhone. It has been frustrating for years, but now that a solution has been realized, it seems anti-competitive that one of the vendors is now trying to block the fix. Regardless, even if this fix remains blocked, we do have hope that iOS will get RCS in the near future.
Signal is great. E2ee multiplatform messaging. Everybody’s happy.
It’s not a messaging thing it’s an anti-trust thing. And for all the times I agree with Warren, I think she’s wrong here.
Instead they should force any phone manufacturer to integrate matrix in the SMS app, that would really benefit the user most…
Who the hell uses iMessage? Do people really only have friends with apple phones?
iPhones have the largest share of the US smartphone market. iMessage is the default messaging app on every iPhone, and cannot be changed. Ergo, iMessage is one of the top 5 largest messaging apps in the US. I believe it’s number 3 or 4 behind FB Messenger, WhatsApp, and FaceTime (also an Apple product).
Anyone who doesn’t want to touch a Facebook product with a thousand foot pole.
And then there’s me, who doesn’t want to touch a Facebook, Apple, or Google product with a thousand foot-pole.
Yo.
This is largely a North American problem. More than 50% of phones are iPhone, and the de facto texting for iPhone users is iMessage. While WhatsApp is the default IM for most of the rest of the world, it’s iMessage in North America.
I’m so annoyed by people dismissing a standard protocol for sending messages builtin to phones and the networks they run on as unnecessary. We should have choice, but why in the fuck should we not have the most basic fucking infrastructure already in place that works with every device and without needing a new account/ app and needing to wrangle people we know into using the that app? I truly don’t get why people seem against a fucking standard just because they found a workaround for not having one
iMessage is VERY popular in the Us.
Yes, apprently. I didn’t know that. I think less then 10% of the people I know even have iPhones.
Over 50% in the US. And under 30 it’s something insane like 75%
Yes. Most of my family / peers have iPhones. So iMessage is the standard for them. We use signal for the rest.
In the US, iMessage is really popular.
I’d assume some people use it when it’s available and just use regular texts or something like Signal for non apple contacts.
I’d be really surprised if anyone only uses it and just never talks to anyone with an android…
Like RCS, iMessage falls back to SMS / MMS (aka “green bubbles”) if iMessage isn’t available.
People still talk cross-platform, but people dislike the drop in media quality / functionality when they get kicked to the old protocol.
Yawn.
Apple is a private company what business does the gov have here?
The US is not a libertarian society. Private businesses play within the guardrails set by the people and their elected representatives.
Same reason the EU forced apple to change to usb-c. It benefits consumers.
Apple is already adopting RCS. There’s no benefit here other than to spammers looking for a backdoor into iMessage.
Ever heard of anti-trust?
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Warren, an advocate for stricter antitrust enforcement, posted her support for Beeper on X (formerly Twitter) and questioned why Apple would restrict a competitor.
In explaining its decision to cut off Beeper’s access to its servers, Apple said that it took “steps to steps to protect our users by blocking techniques that exploit fake credentials in order to gain access to iMessage.” It also suggested that Beeper’s techniques “posed significant risks to user security and privacy, including the potential for metadata exposure and enabling unwanted messages, spam, and phishing attacks.”
In addition, Cupertino-based tech giant argued against Beeper’s security, saying it was not able to verify that messages sent through unauthorized means were able to maintain the end-to-end encryption iMessage offers.
Beeper, however, claims it was able to offer the same level of encryption as iMessage uses, but did not put its app through a third-party security audit prior to its launch, which would have strengthened its argument.
As of its most recent update on Sunday, the startup posted that work continues on the outage and it hopes to “have good news to share soon.”
Beeper Mini, then, became an app that focused solely on bringing iMessage to Android for $1.99/month, with the intention of expanding its capabilities over time.
The original article contains 474 words, the summary contains 210 words. Saved 56%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
If this sparks an interoperability discussion (and actions) in the USA, it’ll be ironic for Apple who might escape interoperability in the EU.
iPhones have the largest share of the US smartphone market. iMessage is the default messaging app on every iPhone, and cannot be changed. Ergo, iMessage is one of the top 5 largest messaging apps in the US. I believe it’s number 3 or 4 behind FB Messenger, WhatsApp, and FaceTime (also an Apple product).
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Sit down and shut up Pocahontas. Uggh, garbage like this is what is so detestable about 98% of politicians.
If there’s a legal issue here, it’s for the courts to decide.
And I’ve tested Beeper Mini, I find it an interesting idea. Whether it’s legal for them to do is an interesting question. My guess is “possibly/probably”, but lawyers are good at arguing arcane points.
ghastly_03_startup@infosec.pub 11 months ago
I wish Apple would just release an iMessage app for Android and be done with it.
Wrench@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Why would they do that? The point is exclusivity to foster peer pressure to all be on iPhone. Google offered to integrate with iMessage and vice versa, so that consumers would have the best experience regardless of platform, ages ago. Apple declined, and then removed some of Googles office suite apps from their store.
DJKayDawg@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Step 1) use peer pressure to get teens on platform
Step 2) vendor lock-in to keep them as lifetime customers
Step 3) profit
TrickDacy@lemmy.world 11 months ago
They would do that because they suddenly changed their mind about their strategy needing to keep things as proprietary as possible. It’s unlikely, but apple did do that to a degree with osx
CurlyMoustache@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Not how capitalism works. Sadly
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
They specifically don’t want to do this. They’ve admitted that they want peer pressure to support and bolster their iPhone sales.
It’s super fucked up.