Submitted 1 year ago by DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de to australia@aussie.zone
I feel like anyone who seriously thought a No vote would lead to a better outcome are going to be disappointed when indigenous rights are not revisited until 2050.
More importantly,.a Dutton or other LNP government can use this result to justify cute to funding and whatnot.
Awful time to be an Australian. How utterly embarrassing.
Did anyone really deep down think that “no” was a better outcome for the indigenous tough?
There was someone actively campaigning that in the Megathread, they argued that it would be seen as an excuse to not do anything
This is quite different to a federal election, where there are so many interesting and new talking points that come out of the results analysis - even if a landslide is predicted beforehand. Tonight it just feels like a immediate confirmation of what we’ve already known for months, and there is no discussion to be had beyond the same talking points that have been debated ad-nauseam throughout the entire campaign. Without an indication of anything further resulting from this referendum, the whole exercise just feels like a complete dead end.
Yeah, I hear you. With an election the country is choosing between two different paths. In this case we’re either choosing progress or… not.
One of Dutton’s talking points over the last few weeks was that he would propose some alternatives after the referendum. I imagine that will be part of the forthcoming “Albo is out of touch” campaign.
A lot of the commentary I have seen online from non-Indigenous voters, even those who voted yes, is that the government needs to get back to matters of real concern (according to these people). Sadly it seems there is a very real danger of this being the end of mainstream Australia’s interest in Indigenous affairs for the foreseeable future.
This wasn’t “progress or not” though, that’s ridiculous and sore loser talk. Another toothless advisory panel that will be ignored isn’t “progress”.
Real progress would be something like guaranteeing some new seats at the senate to go with the “voice”. Give them an actual voice that gets to decide on things that affect their community. Giving them a “voice” that can and will be ignored will change nothing for the better.
im sad for those that is would have actually mattered, its a shame the ‘tyranny of majority’ can decide things that apply to minorities. I refuse to go to any cooker pages tonight, no doubt there will be a lot of gloating
So disappointing that the government spent hundreds of millions of dollars on this referendum only for the majority of people to vote no (well if the ABC have called it right). I’m interested in seeing what the government does next.
Why the fuck do mining companies get a voice in parliament but the oldest living culture in Australia does not?!
The money was actually well spent because the will of Australian electors was ratified. It’s a snarky point yes, but one worth making.
I think if they passed the legislation first as a trial and then if it went well put it through a referendum there would be more support.
I’m not saying he would but he could just force it through legislation now, with the greens support and independents support, Pocock is in ACT who was the only place to vote yes, I think they have enough to pass.
Sure it will go against the results of the referendum, or “the will of the people” but it will be a legal way to do it. I think if it went through legislation it would become like GST, deeply unpopular at the time but it just becomes fait accompli and noone would dare reverse it. Because once in noone wants the optics of being “the racist in the parliament” besides maybe ONP.
I think if it went through legislation it would become like GST, deeply unpopular at the time but it just becomes fait accompli and noone would dare reverse it.
Legislated Indigenous advisory bodies have been dismantled on 11 occasions already.
Legislation first would actually have been the winner for the Yes campaign. Their weakness was in the lack of detail. As soon as they launched “If you don’t know, vote No” It was sunk.
Because giving voice to mining companies is oligarchy and giving special treatment to any race is racism. Both disgusting but first one much less.
Sorry man, but that’s not racism. That’s equity. Some kinds of people need certain kinds of privileges, because they’ve been disenfranchised by a racist system for years and years and years. Giving them a leg up is a reasonable and empathetic thing to do.
It was never about race. It was about recognising that there are two competing forms of sovereignty in this nation, and that it is within everyone’s best interests to find a way of reconciling them. Indigenous Australians are not just another racial group in competition with the rest of us.
Albanese’s defeat speach fell flat and was weak. Just more dithering and deflection. For a self proclaimed conviction politician he sure can’t muster any fire in his rhetoric.
Dutton’s speach was solid, hit all the talking points and will likely see an approval rating rise. Yet it was full of lies, promises of action on housing and cost of living issues which his government created. Promises to improve defence which rotted under Liberal leadership.
Promises for funds to communities in need, the same communities the Liberals stripped $500 million in funding from.
I was happy to hear a journalist call out Dutton’s claim that an audit into where the money is spent, as Liberals were in power for a long time and should know exactly where it went!
Imagine if Albo had decided to make his PM’s legacy in to being the one that started fixing wealth inequality and the housing crisis. Instead economically they are sticking with the shit-party-lite approach. Housing being pushed further out of reach for those without due to added demand.
His failure to read the room on the voice will mean his legacy is this failed referendum and fact that it poured more fuel on the division fire.
Passing referendums is very difficult in Australia. People are easily scared away from change with emotional arguments unless there is a very clear message and benefit and I think the voice proposal was lacking. The only reason I voted Yes was to show solidarity with indigenous Australians and to oppose some of the ugly characters and lies coming from the No campaign. Try as I could reading the Uluru statement and other supporting arguments I couldn’t get excited about it and I can understand why people on the fence would reject constitutional change.
The government should put as much as they can into legislation and be satisfied and I think we should move on.
Unfortunately I think this result has huge lessons for the republican cause. I suspect there won’t be a republican referendum this decade now.
I think as long as Chuck or his sons don’t come over here expecting some big royal event, there is no real impulse for change our system of government.
A key difference in the campaigns would be the fact that the Voice referendum didn’t include the element ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’. Everybody agrees theres a gap between First Nations people and the rest of Aus, (We don’t agree on the cause). A Rebublican proposal is trying to change a system that, when comparing to other systems around the world, is working quite well.
this comment is a good example of how profoundly ill-informed Australians are with regard to out politics; our constitution is a colonialist relic with no inalienable rights and colossal centralisation of power, and people act like it’s actually somehow modern or progressive.
by and large Australians are unsophisticated, easily manipulated, political idiots.
Indigenous disadvantage is a huge issue and I don’t want to trivialize it by comparison to less important topics but as far as these constitutional referendums are concerned there is some commonality. Both seek to add recognition and self-determination for Australians that are far more appropriate for current and future Australia than was anticipated in a document written near the height of the British Empire.
Parliament can legislate indigenous consultation and although it doesn’t have the prestige or guarantees of a constitutional change it can achieve much the same outcome for now. We have gone as far as we can legislatively to become an independent sovereign nation and the replacement of the head of state with an Australian citizen is the last obstacle to assert our full nationhood.
Realistically both were going to be lost outside the inner cities. Neither are going to give a No voter cheaper beer and smokes. As long as we have a regional divide in economic status and education, conservatives have an almost insurmountable advantage. Racism might have played a role in the Voice outccome but it is just one of many buttons for a disinformation campaign to exploit.
Of to a very “no” leaning start.
If it’s a “no” outcome I’m gonna have to avoid any Australia related news. Couldn’t bare to see Dutton congratulating himself.
Glad this is over with. I fully expect the next week or two to be filled with articles bemoaning how ‘No’ only succeeded because people are racist/stupid.
Hopefully after this final whinge our politicians and media can start narrowing focus on things most people actually find important.
Lots of people do care about this and find it important.
Hence, why I used ‘most’. Democracy, amiright?
To be fair, there are a lot of very racist people in Australia. Its reputation as a deeply racist country is known far and wide.
Also, Australia voted to not be a republic, and people think Clive Palmer is their friend and saviour, so… Yeah, plenty of idiots out there. I mean, the no campaign basically promoted and lived on ignorance. “If you don’t know”? Come on. How dumb do you have to be?
ABC just called it as defeated, all over before WA even got to start counting…
People always say their vote doesn’t matter, but in this case they are quite literally right.
It’s only 5:30 here in WA. Results have been known for over an hour. Polls are still open for another half an hour.
I get why people are voting: they have to or will get a fine. What I don’t understand is why people are still handing out ‘Vote Yes/No’ flyers. What is the point in that?
Antony Green was calling 2 states No at 7:01pm, and that meant only 1 more No state was required.
He called SA as No at 7:24pm.
I think they called the election wrong pretty early as well, it’s probably just automated, but I don’t have high hopes
Needs both majority of states and population, so if its defeated in the east, it’s too late.
Bad policy sold badly.
If they cannot açcept that, the ‘no’ campaign will appear more successful than they were, and will play against labour in the election. Is it really racist to criticise the ‘yes’ campaign?
Who is calling you a racist lol?
No voters woke up ready to shadowbox today.
I keep saying it, but that is right wing outrage politics in a nutshell. Incite anger through deliberate forms of trolling like sealioning (which was absolutely rampant in this campaign) and then play the victim when you get called out. The uninformed only see the backlash and assume the reaction is unreasonable, when it’s generally not.
I don’t think so. Labor really shat the bed here IMO.
Albo’s looking like a one-term prime minister at the moment.
Yeah see this is the part that really grinds my gears. Labor has wasted a lot of political capital on this. They didn’t have much to start with. I’m not looking forward to a decade of Dutton.
I don’t understand how this became a party issue. There are practically no LNP members here in WA, so they don’t need to follow the national LNP directives.
The result is: the opposition leader here said she’s resigning and voting yes. Our two most well-known Libs (one the former deputy PM) are both publicly in the ‘yes’ camp.
Not that any of it matters.
Something I’d read/listened to recently suggested that it might have more of a detrimental affect on Dutton when it comes to the election - people will remember his campaigning during this, and be really turned off it when voting for a leader. On the other hand, Albanese has done some work towards keeping his leadership separate from the outcome of the result.
Given he’s just pissed $450m up the wall for nothing, that seems appropriate
It’s interesting, I don’t know if Dutton will be able to win back the moderate seats they lost at the last election
Yeah the yes vote is crushing it in traditional Liberal seats, and they are going to remember this.
The swinging seats were largely the apolitical suburbs, who aren’t idealistic lefties but aren’t rusted-on megachurch culture-warriors either. They bend with the wind. Morrison was on the nose, so they swung to Labor; whether they stay with Labor or conclude, after surveying the famously impartial media, that we need a change is an open question.
The result isn’t being covered very well internationally, looking at the post on lemmy.world, I wonder what ramifications this will have in the pacific
What did people expect? As has been pointed out so many times, Australia is miles behind the rest of the world when it comes to accepting its true history and recognising the importance of its Indigenous peoples. A model of recognition as limited as the Voice can only be controversial in a country where the average citizen is completely ignorant about history. It makes us look stupid and uneducated, which we are.
Yeah I noticed that everyone has jumped on the “Australia is racist” bandwagon. I think there is that element but I’m optimistic that the referendum failed for other reasons and we can all move on.
I think had there been no advertising, no campaigning, no news coverage, just the alteration to the constitution with a small explanation of its implications and no social media posts we would have had a very different result, but unfortunately we do not live in a utopia
The next time someone tries to tell you that most Aboriginal people didn’t want The Voice:
twitter.com/…/1713353768706928912
Antony Green:
Results for Remote Mobile Teams in the NT electorate of Lingiari. Number columns are first % Yes, then % No and total votes. #auspol #referendum2023
Image
This is really interesting in many ways.
6 months ago, if you had have told me that these communities would be less than 90% yes I would’ve been surprised.
What a shit show.
Don’t forget these remote sites will still include non-indigenous Australians who were in the area too. So it may be still a little imprecise, but highly indicative nonetheless.
Hey, just a little nudge, if you’re keen to chat about the Voice to Parliament, we’ve got this corker of a megathread where we can all have a good chinwag in one spot. But if you’re not up for that, no worries, it’s business as usual. Gotta keep things fair dinkum!
Thanks Dale but that’s all done now
What does “racest” mean?
Oh, woops. Well, clearly I too am one of the idiots.
I’ll pin this thread for discussing the referendum, the megathread will be closed in a minute
Instigate@aussie.zone 1 year ago
Fuck. I’m sad. I’m sorry to be Australian right now.
DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
Yeah - the voice didn’t really mean much to my day to day at all, but this loss is indicative of our deepening conservative bent.
samson@aussie.zone 1 year ago
With any luck it would have meant something to mine. I’m devastated.
Whirlybird@aussie.zone 1 year ago
It has nothing to do with anyone becoming “conservative”. Another advisory board would change nothing when the ones we already have are ignored and aren’t working.
60% of the country voted for gay marriage, a far more “liberal”/“progressive” thing than the voice, so saying we’re getting more “conservative” makes no sense. The fact is that the actual progressive people recognize that this was all grandstand virtue signalling, and we want more than that. “It’s better than nothing” is not a valid reason to change our constitution. How about actually doing something meaningful as a starting point instead?
Wooki@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Deepening? How new are you?
naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
One of the most stagnant democracies in the west.
We’d rather spend time talking about franking credits than lend an ear to the suffering.
skittlebrau@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Some of the people receiving the franking credits believe they’re suffering… somehow.