Lets talk about physics of the speed of spaceship

Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨whiskers@lemmings.world⁩ to ⁨[deleted]⁩

In reality, there is (almost) no force to reduce speed in space.

It was quite unituitive to me in the beginning that when I boost the spaceship, it works lke a car on earth rather than a spaceship. I’d have liked the spaceship to continue to gain speed when either the boost was applied or you continue to throttle the engine. They could have kept a fuel limit to keep the speed in check.

What are your thoughts on this? Would you have liked this to be more based in reality or prefer the familiar car based speed/acceleration that’s in the game?

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mp3@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I expect the developers chose this to make sure the casual user is going to enjoy the game first than aiming for accurate physics.

Most people would likely struggle with piloting the spaceship if they’d have to consider proper inertia and momentum.

It would be nice to have the option for it, maybe a mod idea?

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- seabromd@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Agreed. It feels the same to me as the fighters in Star Wars Squadrons, which is familiar and comfortable.
  
  I can appreciate a goal of realism, but it definitely feels like a hard balancing act with fun. I mean… When I get shot in the game I don’t actually die either, haha.
  
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- whiskers@lemmings.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Yeah I think that’s the basis for that decision as well. They already have simulation in letting us assign powers to different components, this addition would have felt like the real thing to me!
  
  Definitely, someone will make a mod. Alas, I’m on Xbox.
  
  Personally what would you prefer? I’m trying to gauge the sentiment in this community
  
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  - NOT_RICK@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Xbox supports mods. It won’t support everything, especially mods that require a script extender, so hopefully you’ll be able to benefit from a more accurate space navigation mod at some point.
    
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  - mp3@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Personally I prefer the arcade-y feeling for that kind of game.
    
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circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
A similar gripe: if I leave a planet, post-cutscene, the game points me back at that planet, thrusters on.

Why the hell would I be facing towards the thing I just left?

I can get around a lot of other immersion issues by making sure I walk into my ship and sit myself in the cockpit before trips. But why. the. hell. am I facing the planet I just left.

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- all-knight-party@kbin.cafe ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Pretty framing, mostly, I assume. Alternatively you'd just be facing black space. It looks prettier to show you the planet you were on since it's visually interesting and allows you to scan it quickly and decide if you want to land at any other POI on the planet instead of leaving. Leaving isnt much more difficult, either.
  
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Kolanaki@yiffit.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Do wish the flight controls felt a bit more like Elite or even Space Engineers. But it’s amazing they have vehicles and space flight at all on this engine.

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ArchmageAzor@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Starfield has some pretty soft scifi under a hard veneer. It’s more a Star Trek/Wars than a The Expanse. I think there’s deceleration to add to a more arcade-y feel. If it bothers you it can be explained by your ship firing retrothrusters when the throttle isn’t engaged.

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- variants@possumpat.io ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  if I remember right I think ships slowed down in the expanse also without thrust haha, Im pretty sure noticing the same thing when watching that show
  
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  - SpacetimeMachine@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    When they were in space I only remember seeing them slowing down either when using RCS or after a flip so their engines are decelerating them.
    
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- circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I mean, you can also hear sound in the external space view. The Expanse also had sound in space, and it’s trying to be “harder” sci-fi.
  
  The sounds within the craft in Starfield sound great, and admittedly it would be weird to have the external view fall silent, however more accurate it would be.
  
  It’s a game, and there will always be tradeoffs for ease of play and general entertainment value.
  
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- whiskers@lemmings.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I hadn’t noticed that they fire up retro thrusters. That’s a good attention to detail.
  
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  - samus12345@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I don’t think they do, you have to imagine it.
    
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amio@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I immediately thought "piloting" felt like paddling a bathtub while trying to use an abacus with the other hand. The physics and just "feel" of piloting are awful to me, and I'm basing that on ancient space sims like Freelancer. Did they play any other space game throughout history before making this?

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- whiskers@lemmings.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Haha, your analogy is spot on! I think it’s still fun but my ‘science’ brain gets quite conflicted when piloting it.
  
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Cethin@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I’ve made a few games with accurate phsycis for spaceships. It always ends up with a lot of players complaining about not being able to control them. The way I usually handle this is having a match speed button or other form of dampening, but it’s still not enough for some players.

Starfield made spaceships behave like aircraft. That’s the other method you see often. It makes more sense to us humans who have only experienced life on earth. It’s why Star Wars does it, even though a person doesn’t even have to control it.

I don’t think either option is “wrong.” I do personally prefer the former, but that’s from someone with hundreds of hours in KSP and many other space sims. For a mass market game, the airplane model is probably the correct choice, at least as a default. I would love a toggle to change modes though.

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- whiskers@lemmings.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I have never played an accurate physics game. True, it could become tough to handle, especially in combat.
  
  Now that I’ve played more of this game, I think a mod that simulates accurate physics might break the combat as designed currently.
  
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  - Cethin@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Here’s one of mine that I did recently for Ludum Dare 53. it’s 2D and not combat, but accurate Newtonian physics. The same applies in 3D with just one more axis to control. I don’t think I have an easily publicly accessible 3D game online.
    
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KiranWells@pawb.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I think the behavior could actually make sense with real physics, as the vehicle might be designed to mimic what the driver expects rather than real physics. For example, my car often shuts off the engine when I am not accelerating because it is a hybrid. So, if I don’t press the gas pedal, it wouldn’t really make sense for it to move. However, it is designed to artificially engage the engine when none of the pedals are pressed to more closely mimic the behavior of non-hybrid cars.

If most pilots are used to the behavior if a vehicle in atmosphere, a space ship might be designed to mimic that behavior (through weak reverse thrusters or something else) to make it easier for pilots to get used to.

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- Eheran@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  That does not make sense. Breaking in space costs as much fuel as accelerating.
  
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  - stankmut@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Starship designers assumed that you want to slow down when you let off the throttle, much like today’s One Pedal mode in electric cars. Otherwise you would’ve engaged cruise control if you wanted to keep the same speed.
    
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PM_me_your_vagina_thanks@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
It's the same in most space-based games, and whilst disappointing for fans of physics, it would be far too difficult to properly simulate, as funky things happen in physics engines when ludicrous speed is achieved.

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- Eheran@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  It would be easier to simulate, since not only is the physics known and easy, not doing anything (no deceleration) is also very easy.
  
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  - PM_me_your_vagina_thanks@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    That's not how physics engines work, mate.
    
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nnullzz@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I don’t feel the same kind of “grip” that a car would have in game but I see what you mean. I personally don’t hate the current physics. The more arcade feeling works well in combat like others have mentioned here.

But if a mod came out with more realistic physics I would be totally up for trying it.

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- Awkwardparticle@artemis.camp ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I am very annoyed at spaceship controls. Some attempt at realistic momentum is desperately needed in the game. It just feels so wrong. No magical force should apply inertia to a moving object in space.
  This is the first mod I want.
  
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dan1101@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I don’t think any game models this fully, even the more hardcore space sims. I think this is beyond the scope of a general RPG like Starfield unfortunately.

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- Kolanaki@yiffit.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Plenty of space games have real Newtonian physics.
  
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  - HeChomk@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    My max speed is 199. No mods, no boost. I’ve read this 150 limit thing before and was confused why my ship was faster.
    
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- all-knight-party@kbin.cafe ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Elite Dangerous does. I forget what they're called, but there's a toggle keybind that lets you turn the stabilizers or whatever off so that if you throttle up and then cut the throttle you'll continue moving infinitely in that direction until you turn the stabilizers back on or thrust in a different direction.
  
  It lets you do wildly badass shit like boosting past someone, cutting throttle and stabilizers, spinning around, and blasting them as you fly backwards and they're still trying to turn around.
  
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  - dan1101@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I guess that’s turning off the inertial dampeners, I heard Starfield lets you do that but I haven’t tried it. But yeah the flight model of ED is far better.
    
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- exponential_wizard@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  It’s not exactly difficult to program. The only reason they would have done it this way is because they think it feels better to control. Realistic space physics results in a lot of crashing into things, or more commonly flying past them, which can result in frustration.
  
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  - dan1101@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Yeah in Elite Dangerous it’s amazing how fast you can overshoot something at the speeds needed to traverse a solar system in minutes.
    
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- 8rhn6t6s@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Outer wilds had this. I often die due to speeding up too much hahahah.
  
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Sylver@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
The ships essentially have fully enabled flight assist. So when you let go of the throttle, there are forward thrusters that immediately start to cancel your velocity. In real life, this is pretty pointless since speed is relative, but you could at least set your reference frame to your target planet.

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