Submitted 1 year ago by L4s@lemmy.world [bot] to technology@lemmy.world
https://www.yahoo.com/news/rivian-ceo-issues-strong-statement-110000599.html
Rivian CEO issues strong statement about people who purchase gas-powered cars: ‘Sort of like building a horse barn in 1910’::“I don’t think I would have believed it.”
Selling $80k electric cars and making comments like this is sort of like saying ‘let them eat cake’ in 1780
If you read the article you’d see that he said that in the context of buying a Chevy Suburban in 2030. Suburbans start at $77k, so I don’t think his comment is that out of line.
Um…does the CEO know that horses are still a thing and that horse barns (aka stables) are still in use? Also, the invention of the automobile didn’t instantly displace the horse. It was well into the 1920s before they became a regular sight.
Also…there’s lots of reasons to buy gas-powered cars these days. For one, not everyone lives in a home where they can install the necessary charger, so you’d always be on the “hunt” for charging stations, and fuel cars are generally cheaper at this time. Once we see the market flooded with EV cars, the prices will come down and fuel cars will no longer be the norm, but we’re likely a decade or more away from that.
I get what the CEO is trying to say, but it’s still incredibly tone-deaf.
Also the recharge times are still a deal breaker for anyone who fancies a road trip every once in a while.
What, you don’t like spending a quarter of your road trip waiting for “fuel”?
If your road trips are only once in a while, you easily make up for it in saved time not doing weekly fill-ups.
Agreed, it’s also true that used combustion engine cars can be a great value.
It’s important to read the full quote from Rivian’s CEO before complaining about $75k electric trucks:
“I think the reality of buying a combustion-powered vehicle … is sort of like building a horse barn in 1910,” he said. “Imagine buying a Chevy Suburban in 2030 … what are you going to do with that … in 10 years?”
He’s comparing buying a Rivian truck with buying a Suburban, which has a base price of $57k for the lowest tier configuration (LS) and a $76k price on the High Country configuration.
CEO of an electric car company recommends that people drive electric cars.
Doesn’t really seem like much of a headline.
The statement might be more significant if it was a CEO of a car company that made diesel/petrol cars who said it.
It’s more the tone deafness. Most people couldn’t afford either a car or a horse barn in 1910 just like most people (in America anyway) can’t afford an electric car.
Well maybe if this guy sold an electric car that people could afford, they would buy it
Startup costs need to be softened with a costlier higher margin vehicle. Cannot achieve quality mass production of cars from thin air.
Please pay for my apartment complex to install charger plugs in our garages then.
If you just have a regular plug in the garage, it works. I thought that I would have to get a special outlet put in, but after plugging in at night for a couple months I realized there was no need. Figure about 5 miles per hour recharge. I have an older used Leaf that was relatively cheap.
I just looked up the price for a Rivian truck and holy shit is this guy for real? Lmao. Just another out of touch CEO virtue signaling. If he really felt this way he would make them affordable lol
A giant electric “luxury” truck is still a giant “luxury” truck. Buying one over the other is like buying a cruelty free synthetic beaver cap over a cap made from an actual beaver. Yes it probably is better, but you are still wearing an ass on your head.
It’s 2023, most people live in urbanized areas where a truck is similarly ridiculous, especially the modern “luxury” models. Those that actually use their vehicles for hauling things at a farm want real work trucks and tractors (regardless of engine type) with lower and longer beds.
In 1910, in the United States, there were about 5 automobiles per 1,000 people. His analogy is stupid.
Source: Oak Ridge National Laboratory, Transportation Energy Data Book: Edition 33, ORNL-6990, Oak Ridge, TN, July 2014, Tables 3.5 and 3.6.
I think his analogy is accidentally spot on. ICE cars are going to be around for a while
For a very long while, which makes it so important we switch away from fossils fuels to co2 neutral, synthetic fuels as fast as possible. And in Europe, nobody wants EVs anyway, sales dropped like batshit crazy and everyone is getting ICE cars…
I buy what my meager wage allows me to afford…
Make an EV that competes on price with a Corolla and I’ll be there.
So the chevy Bolt?
Yeah, big words from rivian. Trucks that cost more than a luxury SUV.
Hey rivian ceo, build more fast charging stations along interstates and not just in big cities. Or build EVs that can go at least 500 miles on a charge.
Ok, that will be $150,000.
Why buy an affordable horse when you can buy my product for 3 years wages? Smh you guys are so old fashioned.
CEO of a product ridiculing a competitor’s product? I’m shocked, shocked!
Manufacturing needlessly large vehicles that you can’t even see 30 feets in front of you while you run over children and still use plenty of fossil coming from the coal power plant 50 miles away, is also like building a horse barn in 1910. Obnoxiously large vehicles for anyone other than those that actually use them for their intended purpose is just as antiquated. In 20-30 years when half the world is suffering or dying due to the most extreme impacts of climate change we are going to look at large vehicles like we were insane.
Rivian truck
It’s like buying a small house!
Maybe some people want to tow.
I’m in the market for a new car and it sure as shit isn’t gonna a be electric. Maybe that’s because I don’t have $80k to drop on a new car. Maybe it’s because I have zero interest in dealing with range issues. Maybe it’s because every EV is a goddamn touchscreen on wheels.
The Rivian R1T’s towing capacity is 11,000 pounds, so you can absolutely tow with one. The question is if you’re talking about a trailer around town or a large camper cross-country. The former should be no big deal, you can always charge at home and start your day off full, but admittedly you’ll be stopping to charge a lot more with the latter.
That said, most people don’t carry campers cross-country, let alone frequently
Stupid out of touch billionaires.
Let’s see how those battery packs are doing in 10 years you fucking wank stain on humanity.
Fuck rich people.
Either still driving perfectly fine or found a second life as static energy storage before ultimately being recycled.
Where I am the price difference between a base model Camry and a Model 3 is 21%. A difference I’d make up in lower running costs within two years.
But you’re comparing new cars. I don’t buy new cars, probably never will. There are no electric cars worth their salt in my price range, which is in the 10yo second hand range.
The value add for an individual is minimal to nonexistent in electric vs gas. Not so with a horse vs a car. This guy is delusional if this isn’t just hype (it is) and thinks the comparisons are comparable.
Meanwhile gas starts at $8.34 per gallon where I live, while I can charge my car for $0.42 per kWh.
While I’m sure there’s a large saving, a gallon of fuel is not the same as a kWh of electricity.
ALL of the off-roaders who have gone electric that I know have a gas-powered generator they throw in the back for when we’re 200km up a logging road.
I like the idea of electric cars, may purchase one, but they don’t make sense for everyone at this point. The infrastructure isn’t there, they’re very expensive, the range isn’t practical for some, and many of the choices are unreliable. I applaud those who can make them work, but they’re not for everyone yet.
Range really isn’t a big deal. Pretty much any car will get you from one charger to the next, the question is how long you’ll have to wait to charge. On most cars, 30 minutes of charging will give you a couple hours of driving. Keeping in mind that you can leave home on a full charge and arrive at your destination on nearly nothing, charging overnight, it’s not bad at all.
Oh, and check Plugshare. You’d be surprised how many DC fast chargers are out there. You’ve probably passed by some and not even noticed. There are a few deserts out there (looking at you, Wyoming) but they’re building up FAST. A year ago there was a 135-mile stretch kinda near me without anything along the way. Now there are two on that stretch.
Problems with electric cars :
Cost morenup front Claimed range is NEVER real not even close Batteries are super expensive to replace or repair and wear out sooner than ic engines Bad on the environment to manufacture Lack of charging stations makes fake range numbers super bad Slow to charge Useless on road trips Range even worse in the winter Its better for the environment to keep an older car on the road than to make a new ev
You could really do with some punctuation.
God damn! I concur.
Let me help you
Cost more up front: yes, new stuff always does
Range is never real not even close: evidently tesla has been lying about range, but for the most part, if you use an AC in an electric vehicle the batteries die sooner…which is the same with ICE vehicles. Use more energy = deplete faster.
Expensive to replace: yes
Wear out sooner than ice engines? Oh I don’t know about that
Lack of charging stations: yes, a limited problem, but in my area there are tons of them and you also charge at home and work (work is free, so it’s free gas)
Slow to charge? 10-15mins wait is really not a deal breaker, you’re just making some extra time to use the bathroom and get coffee.
Useless on road trips: I personally just rented a full electric and did an 800 mile round trip. It was not that bad.
Range worse in winter: goes along with ‘that’s how batteries work’. Plan your trip.
It’s better for environment to keep older car on the road? Hard NO. Older ICE cars are less efficient with gas, which uses more gas. Getting a newer more efficient ICE car is better for the environment.
Creating a battery is bad for the environment up front, but after that there’s a very small impact over the lifetime usage of that battery.
On the other hand, creating an ICE engine is light on the environment, but through its lifetime pollutes. Way larger impact on the environment than the electric.
Thank you for doing this so I didn’t have to
If solid state batteries do work out line Toyota says, these old EVs aren’t going to be too attractive
Electric vehicles are the future of cars, but it will mean an entire extra class of people who will be cut off from car ownership.
And they’re not going to like it.
I don’t drive a lot any more now that I work from home…but if I purchased an electric vehicle, the batteries (arguably one of the most expensive components of the vehicle) are slowly degrading whether I drive it or not, and I would either have to throw away the whole car or replace the extremely expensive batteries as early as 10 years. If I buy a gas-powered car instead, there is not a significant expensive component on it that starts totally degrading over time whether I used it or not…except the 12v battery under the hood that I have to replace every 5 to 7 years.
That Rivian CEO is suffering from affluenza and seems to think people are made of money.
Probably best to avoid these new tech-car companies if all their CEOs are going to do is just shoot off bad takes. Says a lot about the company culture IMO ☹️
Just leave people to buy whatever they want to, and importantly, whatever they can afford.
As much as I like electric cars, it’s not affordable or sustainable to splash 10k every 10 years on a new battery. If I buy a combustion engine vehicle, I don’t need to replace the engine/[insert heavy and expensive component here] every decade or less, assuming good maintenance.
Teslas are very good at looking after their batteries, but those are expensive. Nissan Leafs (older models/2010s) are cheaper, but they have no active battery cooling system to thermally protect the batteries, so you’ll probably be replacing those more frequently.
10k every 10 years vs ? a new car every 10 years?
Ideally, no car.
Realistically, any reliable older used compact car/sedan, that will cost you far less (just maintenance wise, not considering taxes, insurance, fuel etc, since maintenance would be the closest analog to the battery replacement labor and cost IMO) over the same period of time, and will likely keep on getting you from A to B for 10 years and more, with no gradual reduction in range inherent to a BEV, and no environmental issues trying to dispose of a massive lithium battery (unless a bulk grid energy storage firm buys it from you).
They’re both rubbish options environmentally speaking IMO, but a used combustion vehicle is far cheaper to obtain and maintain for the end user, and can generally be kept running and sold onwards to others until it’s totaled, without any of the many owners needing to worry about replacing a battery.
I think hydrogen fuel cell cars are the future. Batteries are by accident, planned obsolence. You have to buy a new car every 5 years due to batteries losing their charge over time.
There is a common misconception that EV batteries die within five years, forcing owners to buy a new car. However, this is not the case.
Battery technology has improved significantly, and new types of batteries, such as Li-S batteries and lithium titanate batteries, have the potential to last the life of the car or even outlast it[1].
Many EV manufacturers offer warranties for their batteries, typically ranging from 8 to 10 years or more, indicating that the batteries are expected to last for a significant portion of the vehicle’s life[1].
With proper care and maintenance, EV batteries can last for a considerable amount of time, and ongoing research and development efforts aim to further improve battery performance and longevity.
Citations: [1] semanticscholar.org/…/bf453504da210fe289e61421933… [2] semanticscholar.org/…/5a33bfeb24415656d5e74eb77ad… [3] semanticscholar.org/…/5f6178987f82360a9fe0c8f8aec… [4] semanticscholar.org/…/bf0b8629af5fbc2374e6e62b3e6… [5] semanticscholar.org/…/eedacfd12c43faa6fe57046efde… [6] semanticscholar.org/…/2b7f4e661fb14947c1f3b59f242…
Show me any car using Li-S or Lithium Titanate batteries that is sold and on the roads today.
Have you even bothered to do the most basic Google search before posting this BS?
Hydrogen is interesting for remote use cases, but the 10-15 year old used Leaf and Volt market argue against your second point. Most battery issues will be discovered in the first few years and after that it’s minimal (1-10%) loss after a decade, using far older tech than today’s models. The industry does need some standardization on battery modules to ensure less e-waste, more mechanics, and better pricing.
And where would the hydrogen come from?
The two most common schemes are either producing it from natural gas, or wasting electricity to produce hydrogen via electrolysis.
Either way, hydrogen is a waste of resources for most applications.
Tesla’s battery warranty is 8 years and between 100-150K miles. I’m not sure about other manufacturers.
My last car purchase was £8650 for a 1L petrol from 2016. And I bought it this year.
If he could direct me to the nearest electric car of the same price and range I’d be happy to buy one, until then it’s a stupid comment and ICE are going to be here for a LONG time, purely because not everyone can afford expensive vehicles.
Haven’t read the article yet, but the quote irks me. I live in a home built in 1920 by a rural “house doctor” with a barn and stalls and all that jazz. Electric may be the future, but gas cars will still be around a while. The same way horses didn’t immediately disappear from rural areas when cars became affordable.
I’m not currently in the market for a truck and I don’t know much about Rivian. Now I know for sure, based on this alone, I will never buy a Rivian vehicle. I used to consider buying a Tesla as well, but won’t for similar reasons.
I wouldn’t go buying a VW, Ford, GM and probably others then for their penchant to kill or poison people for profit.
Fuck you! Not everyone can afford that shit asshole. Guess I can add another electric vehicle to the do not buy list if I can ever afford one.
BromSwolligans@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Forgive me, sire; I hadn’t $80,000 to spend on a luxury truck.
You fuck.
subtext@lemmy.world 1 year ago
A luxury truck with the ugliest headlights on a car today.
Illegal_Prime@dmv.social 1 year ago
And the fucking dangerous high front which is completely unnecessary on an electric car, why is it there. Not even the TESLA FUCKING CYBERTRUCK pulls that shit, say what you will about Tesla, but they understand how the differences between gas and electric cars can be taken advantage of.
Kbobabob@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I’m not even sure what my headlights look like. I never really see them.
olympicyes@lemmy.world 1 year ago
If you knew that he was referring to the purchase of a $80k Suburban in 2030 would that change your assessment?
BromSwolligans@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I think you know very well I would never engage with this possibility as a means of self preservation. Good day sir!