I had to look this up. What the fuck? They came up with numbers up to 60 and then just said “eh, fuck it” and made 70 “sixty-ten”, 80 “four-twenties” and 90 “four twenties ten”.
quatre-vingts
Submitted 1 year ago by Creazle@lemmy.world to [deleted]
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/0f9da14b-ec1f-4de5-9a90-332062b2f171.jpeg
Comments
MossyFeathers@pawb.social 1 year ago
Fried_out_Kombi@lemmy.world 1 year ago
In Switzerland, they use septante, huitante, and nonante for 70, 80, and 90, respectively. Much more sensical, imo.
Jay@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
In Belgium, they use “septante” and “nonante” too. 80 is still “quatre-vingt”.
AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Swiss French is what French should have always been imo
monsieur_jean@kbin.social 1 year ago
The other way around. We started with base 20 everywhere then simplified some of it.
During medieval times it used to be :
10 Dix (10)
20 Vingt (20)
30 Vingt et dix (20+10)
40 Deux-vingt (2x20)
50 Deux-vingt et dix (2x20+10)
60 Trois-vingt (3x20)
70 Trois-vingt et dix (3x20+10)
80 Quatre-vingt (4x20)
90 Quatre-vingt et dix (4x20+10)Then they switched to base 10... But only up to 70 for some reasons in France. Belgium and Switzerland (and some parts of France) have gone all the way to 100 by using Septante (70), Octante or Huitante (80) and Nonante (90).
Comment105@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Belgians and Swiss being the premium version of France, once again.
BlueMagma@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
I’ve seen this coutless times, and as a french native I’m getting tired of this, I want to tell you that no french think of it that way.
You know how you have “eleven” “twelve” and then you switch to “xxteen” for the next 6 number ? You never dissociate them, because that’s just the way it is. French are the same “douze”, “treize”… and then suddenly “dix-sept” but nobody dissociate them, this is just one word that means “17”
And then it’s the same with “seventy”, french don’t dissociate 60 and 10 in their mind, it’s just one word. Sure from an ethymologic standpoint it comes from two word but it’s not how we think about it.
When you say “sunday” you never think “day of the sun”, when you say “blueberry”, “blackberry” you don’t think of the color, you think of the particular fruit, everybody can see the origin of the word, but nonetheless the word is one unit.
Anyway. Yes it is weird to learn a new language and see how it evolved into a weird mess, but please know that when you make this kind of comment you don’t look like you are well informed about the french language, you just look like kids that have learned a new word and can’t stop using it everywhere.
elscallr@lemmy.world 1 year ago
There’s only one place a French native gets this wound up about a joke. Are you Parisian?
BlueMagma@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
I am not, but I’ve seen this jokes so many times online…
Hadriscus@lemm.ee 1 year ago
It doesn’t matter, it’s just something every child learns by heart and doesn’t question. You don’t have to be offended by this post, it’s just funny
BlueMagma@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Not particularly offended, but just tired of seeing this jokes which I think is not really accurate, and it’s like an entry level joke about french language, there could be so many ways to make fun of french
johnlobo@lemmy.world 1 year ago
nah, you guys are just weird.
moitoi@feddit.de 1 year ago
This doesn’t apply to all french speaking regions. Switzerland use septante and nonante and in some regions of the country also huitante.
Nariom@lemmy.world 1 year ago
was gonna say props to Switzerland and Belgium for having proper numbers :) idk why we don’t switch
Hadriscus@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Probably because the cost of switching isn’t worth it. Same reasoning as the imperial system and driving on the left (barbaric, I know)
someguy3@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
With the exception of Eleven and Twelve, English is actually pretty good at this.
independantiste@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
The other day I decided I would stop saying quatre-vingt-dix (4, 20, 10 = 90) instead I would say huit-dix-dix (8, 10, 10) or even deux-quarante-dix (2, 40, 10) and shit like that
wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Why not use the existing septante, octante, neunante?
independantiste@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
idk i was tired and i tought it was the funniest thing
thedarkfly@feddit.nl 1 year ago
I’d actually be down for huitante, in ordre to keep the latin root like other numbers instead of the greek one
happyhippo@feddit.it 1 year ago
Neunante always struck me as a bit weird (although much better than the math thingy).
Neuvante would seem a more reasonable derivation from neuf.
Would also make it closer to other latin languages like Italian and Spanish.
moitoi@feddit.de 1 year ago
People are actually using huitante and not octante.
Regions use septante, huitante and neunante outside France and especially in Switzerland.
HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Ask the guys in Modern times who decided that fick it we will go for the nonsensical method.
Chickenstalker@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The French is the reason English is a clusterfuck of inconsistent grammar and spelling.
elscallr@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Well and German, and some other Latin languages, and a bit of Nordic/Slavic languages, and all the other languages whose pockets English rifled for loose vocabulary.
I love the language, honestly, I love how completely and unapologetically a clusterfuck it is, but it’s a clusterfuck.
some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 1 year ago
You are the person I’ve been waiting to recommend this book. It’s fascinating. It was wild to see everything explained. It all has very good reasons for being completely insane, but it gave me a much deeper appreciation for why it is as is.
And for those of you too lazy to read a book, here’s a podcast interview with the author:
olosta@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The “four twenties” might seems more familiar to americans by replacing “twenties” by “score” as in : " four score and seven years ago…"
some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 1 year ago
Yeah, that’s weird too.
Pregnenolone@lemmy.world 1 year ago
“seventeen, eighteen, nineteen… ten… ten ten”
Blyfh@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I think this actually roots in the problems of conversion to base ten from base twelve. Not sure though, maybe I remembered this wrong.
DarthCluck@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Being lazy and not going to look it up. I can’t help it to wonder if it’s also based in Sumerian’s base 60
monsieur_jean@kbin.social 1 year ago
It's base 20.
80 in French is 4 x 20. A long time ago, 60 was "trois-vingt", 3 x 20. We still have a hospital in Paris called "Hopital des Quinze-Vingts", 15 x 20 because it used to have 300 beds.
Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Meanwhile all french speakers understand each other perfectly well.
So you mistake people saying ninety-nine (99) for them saying ninety nine (90, 9)? No? How come? It’s the same thing!
kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Do you not have the same issue with all numbers under 70? 62 or (60, 2)? And you still have that problem for in the seventies too, it just looks weirder in decimals. "Did you mean (60, 11) or 71?
Even if there is a possible silver lining, it’s still arbitrary and weird.
Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
And I’m English it would be 71 or 70, 1. I’m just pointing out that this meme about french by english strangers makes no sense since it’s the same thing in english.
reeen@aussie.zone 1 year ago
Right, but the tens numeral and the ones numeral being separate words that you add makes more sense than occasionally throwing a curveball like 20×4+5
Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
But it’s still clear what we’re saying when we speak. 4 20 5 vs 4, 20, 5 vs 4, 20 5 vs 4 20, 5, non of it sounds the same when we speak.
atlasraven31@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Deutsch: 2andThirty
VanRijn29@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Dickensian English: in the year eighteen hundred four-and-thirty
barsoap@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Much more regular than English where you have seven-teen but then seventy-one. To be consistent you’d need to switch to either teen-seven or one-seventy.
atlasraven31@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I’m okay with saying seven, ten-seven, twenty-seven, etc…
sp451@lemmy.sdf.org 1 year ago
Wait until you hear what the Danes do.
jose-lesson.com/lin/2017/01/16/nonaginta-septem/
nxfsi@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Normal children usually gain fluency in their native language by age 5. Danish children need to wait until age 7.
Holyhandgrenade@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It’s kind of funny how aware Danes are of their weird numbers system. I speak Norwegian and whenever I’m in Denmark they use the more sensible Norwegian number system to explain to me the prices of stuff (probably because I give them the deer in the headlights-stare whenever I hear something like “fem og halvfjerds”).
Comment105@lemm.ee 1 year ago
They think we’re stupid and infantile for evolving past tradition.
Creazle@lemmy.world 1 year ago
No kidding. It’s the sort of thing that makes you think about how different people process info differently
VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf 1 year ago
TIL that there’s actually (kinda but not really) a method to the madness that is our numbers 😄