Submitted 3 weeks ago by shalafi@lemmy.world to showerthoughts@lemmy.world
No one every sung, “Fuck the firemen!” Fight amongst yourselves.
Once upon a time fire brigades were private entities operated by insurance companies. When they heard of a fire nearby, they’d roll up and only take action if the plaque on the building had their company name on it. Domestic authorities these days certainly resemble that behaviour.
That’s a myth. The Crassus story is true though. In modern times it wouldn’t have made sense to ignore a fire in a city since fires spread.
To my surprise, you’re right. Brigades letting buildings burn didn’t happen - at least not by company decree.
The most I’d ever looked into it was to see what those plaques looked like. I appreciate you countering the idea, it led me to an interesting read of this correction article that seems a great summary of what really occurred.
Primarily it seems they all just worked together for reasons that, after reading them, are painfully obvious and I can’t believe I hadn’t considered even the first one.
More recent writers have more firmly rebutted the notion of letting uninsured buildings burn. In 1996, an insurance company history referenced, in 1702, “the first of many recorded examples” of insurance fire brigades working together to fight fires. The insuring fire office recompensated the other offices whose men who had assisted. The “erroneous myth”, is said to have originated only in the 1920s. Originally writing in 1692-3, Daniel Defoe noted that the firemen were “very active and diligent” in helping to put out fires, “whether in houses insured or not insured”. Only two occasions have been reported (in 1871 & 1895), though, where insurance companies threatened the authorities that they would cease attending fires in uninsured properties. With no reward, no water, and no insurance interest in a burning building, it is not difficult to envisage firemen standing back on occasion, jeering and generally interfering with rival brigades fighting a fire in which they did have an interest. Or, alternatively, simply packing up and going home. Arguably, therefore, the legend of insurance fire brigades letting uninsured buildings burn originated in the first half of the 18th century.
Fuck Marcus Licinius Crassus.
You don’t think that’s what the rich want back?
Every volunteer fire/EMS organization in the USA is struggling to keep the trucks filled. Most stations in the country are one or two volunteers away from just shutting down entirely.
If you can show up, please volunteer! My station desperately needs not just firefighters - these roles at my station are barely covered by a few overworked volunteers:
Most fire companies would be thrilled to have someone show up and join as a member with the goal of just doing one or more of these roles. We don’t just need firefighters, we need a whole host of other things to keep the organization healthy and stable. We’ve seen what happens when these roles are neglected: we lose memberhip and when we lose membership we lose the bench needed to keep the trucks filled and ready to respond.
Do you guys pay really low taxes in the US? I just wonder why this isn’t a critical public service and therefore something that is funded through tax by the government?
It depends what state/county/city you live in. For instance, battling the Palisades Fire we had the city LAFD, the LA County Fire Department, and CalFire all coordinating resources, including some of the incarcerated firefighters who just got a raise from $1.00/hr to $7.25/hr and are starting to be able to apply for regular firefighter certification when they get out. And yes, our taxes pay for this, one of the most-supported uses of that money. They also do fast-water rescue when we have enough rain to flood the streams and rivers, help extract crash victims and put out flaming vehicles on the highways, and rescue hikers and mountain bikers on the local trails…
Whereas if you live in a rural red area, there may only be volunteers, because there’s not voter support for a professional fire department.
Yuuup some really low taxes and also a lot of money gets turned into fighter jets and missiles which are of limited use in a structure fire unfortunately. If they asked me I’d shave off a cheeky 5% of our defense budget and turn it into emergency response but they don’t ask
I was a volunteer fireman in a really shitty rural town. Those guys are racist as fuck they just don’t have guns with which to shoot you.
It’s like that here in nyc too. The only difference is the job of the fd is to help people (unlike the pd)
We have a vacation home where there are quite a lot of wildfires. People do not like the firemen there, because it’s a bit of an open secret they often set the forrest on fire to have something to do.
Lots of them have fucking Tasers though, and theirs have longer/strong cartridges, since they don’t carry guns to back them up like cops do.
I’ve never met firefighter who carries a taser. We’ve got our hands full with crowbars, axes, ladders, hose, radio, thermal imaging camera, and air monitors. I legit don’t know where I’d even store a taser.
Maybe it’s fire police who are carrying tasers?
Whoah, what? What fucking fire department lets their firefighters carry tasers?
There is a critical difference in the way we treat police vs firefighters. Both the law and their training teach police that almost anything is justified if it keeps them safe and that there will not be any consequences. Officer safety takes precedence of the public’s safety. Murdering a few innocent civilians is a small price to pay for that.
Firefighters are simply expected to risk their lives in service of the public. Efforts are made to reduce the risks, but they regularly go in to rescue people knowing they may not make it back out.
Both jobs involve operating in high-risk environments, but the police prioritize police safety and firemen prioritize public safety.
Training and culture is important, but one must remember that firefighters and EMTs do not have qualified immunity. Meaning that firefighters and EMTs can and do get sued for negligence and assault. They also have a “duty of care” while the pigs are not responsible to protect the public, enforce the law, or uphold court orders.
They tend to draw recruits from the same groups of people, though. Difference is firemen don’t have to put handcuffs on anyone, write tickets, or take people to jail. The nature of their job pretty regularly puts them in a position to be the savior. It’s possible that those experiences with their communities can make firemen more empathetic, but I wouldn’t be surprised to learn most of them are at least MAGA-adjacent.
As a former firefighter from a rural area, they’re just as bad as the cops. Most of them ARE police or sheriff’s deputies as a second job, and several are “proud boys” who happily stood on the courthouse lawn with their masks on to protest anything Biden did.
They’re not heroes, they’re cops that like to play with fire.
This is what people don’t seem to realize about MOST things in the world: the demographics of X, located in the area of Y, are going to mirror the demographics of Y 95% of the time. Cops (and a few other places, like jails or colleges [though the colleges trend the opposite way]) stand out because they self select for assholes because the assholes are already inside, holding the levers of power. If an organization isn’t purposely selecting for a trait like that, then the spread of that trait within the organization won’t shift from the general trait’s prevalence outside the organization.
Some are, for sure, but not all.
I know it’s corny, but thank you for your service. You know we still need your help to keep the fire service a welcoming place for new volunteers. Maybe you could sign back up at your new local in a more limited capacity? The more of us there are the better for everyone.
Tbf, it is a parody, not sung specifically because your family and friends are being murdered and kidknapped for a for-profit prison system with forced labor.
I agree,
Mostly I just like bringing awareness to the fantastic song!
I’ve met some really good cops. I’ve also seen a bunch of corruption and bad policing.
I don’t think it is fair to call all cops bad. They are the ones who respond first when you need help.
I’ve met some really good cops. I’ve also seen a bunch of corruption and bad policing.
So, genuine question here… Were the good cops tolerating the corruption and bad policing? If the non-cops can see it, the good cops definitely can. Tacit support allows the system of corruption to continue functioning. So if they were tolerating it, were they actually good cops?
What would you have them do? The fault falls squarely on the leadership of these problematic departments
It also doesn’t help that funding and people are in short supply. It is very hard to replace a police officer
Might think about taking a break for a while. I have to, sometimes. Do some camping and mostly unplug. Anything real big goes down and you’ll hear about it.
Marathon, not a sprint. Fuck em, we’re harder. Country boy can survive.
Not where I live, but I’m pretty sure a lot of the US is the same.
Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Utmost respect for my local firefighters. To tell all the times they’ve saved members of my family and our friends would dox me but they are super. Also always professional and treat people with respect, and solve problems rather than escalate them.
Poem_for_your_sprog@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
What are you doing that you’ve been saved so many times??
Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
My spouse is quadriplegic and medically fragile in multiple ways. So we live on the edge every day.