EU Chat Control didnt pass - proving the media got to alot of you

Submitted ⁨⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨themurphy@lemmy.ml⁩ to ⁨technology@lemmy.world⁩

Chat Control didnt pass - they didnt even vote because they were afraid the result would be embarassing.

And we got told so many times, that EU now wants Chat Control. But it was a big fat lie.

EU is a democracy with different opinions, and when a small group of facists tries to read your chats, it does not represent the EU opinion.

But the whole media got you thinking so. Proving even on Lemmy, you and me are extremly prone to propaganda.

I quoted the article here with the news:

In a major breakthrough for the digital rights movement, the German government has refused to back the EU’s controversial Chat Control regulation yesterday after facing massive public pressure.

The government did not take a position on the proposal.

This blocks the required majority in the EU Council, derailing the plan to pass the surveillance law next week.

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Prunebutt@slrpnk.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Isn’t this how liberal democracies are supposed to work? How exactly did “the media” get the better of “us”?

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- Iheartcheese@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  Good thing happens.
  
  wAkE Up ShEePlE
  
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  - msage@programming.dev ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    Good thing happens.
    
    AnOtHeR oRpHaN eScApEd ThE oRpHaN cRuShInG mAcHiNe!!!
    
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- lowleekun@ani.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I guess op was pessimistic as was i and that’s the narrative that was/kind of pushed: It is going to come in one way or another. Instead of: It is not going to win and if it is we are not going to accept it.
  
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  - Prunebutt@slrpnk.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Yeah, buy… It really is a horrible idea. Any media outcry is warranted. Not like right-wingers spouting nonsense of eating cats and dogs…
    
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- tabular@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Media covinced people that it was coming and it didn’t - my understanding of the argument.
  
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  - SARGE@startrek.website ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    This is exactly the dumb shit take from y2k.
    
    I Still hear people go on about how “it was supposed to be this big thing and then nothing happened! Smart people are so dumb!”
    
    Yeah nothing happened because a lot of smart people worked very hard to fix the goddamn problem, you fucking shitwaffle.
    
    Here? “You dum dums got so worked up thinking it would pass and then it didn’t, so the freak out was for nothing!” yeah it didn’t pass because a lot of Europeans got very upset about their governments trying to spy on them harder than ever.
    
    I’m not European, so I can’t say how people talked about it openly on the metro with random strangers, but online? People were vocal and pissed. A PROPER government (lol can we have some of that functioning democracy please) listens to its people. This was them listening to the people.
    
    The people’s reaction was appropriate, and necessary. And shouldn’t be lessened just because “lol you guys got so propaganda’d and it was obviously never gonna happen and I knew cause I’m so smart” is quite the take on things.
    
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  - porcoesphino@mander.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    That seems like a statement. I’m still lost on how this answers the question
    
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Darkenfolk@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
What kind of shit take is this?

Media made people aware of ongoing bullshit, people reacted and put pressure on their governments and somehow “media got to us”?

If anything it didn’t pass because of media attention.

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- Lfrith@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Yeah, keeping the public in the dark so people against it aren’t their to voice their opinion is how these like this get passed. Media attention to inform the public was a good thing.
  
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- vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  The kind of shit is called “ignoring dynamics and transient processes”.
  
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- Highlandcow@feddit.uk ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  That’s what I thought, OP if nobody believed the news and there was no pressure chat control might of passed
  
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- slaacaa@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  What kind of shit take is this?
  
  The lemmy.ml kind, check OP’s profile
  
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sauerkrautsaul@lemmus.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Yeah… no.

Germany switched to opposed partially because people knew about it and contacted their representatives.

They contacted their representatives because they heard about it… through the media.

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- daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I contacted my representatives in Spain and they gave two fucks about it, they still positioned as “in favour”.
  
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  - technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    my representatives
    
    These people clearly don’t represent you.
    
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  - sauerkrautsaul@lemmus.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    yeah im in Ireland, anything positoned to be about about protecting kids from sexual predators will pass here.
    
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artyom@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

Proving even on Lemmy, you and me are extremly prone to propaganda.

What? LOL Who do you think is pushing said “propaganda” to make people fear Chat Control unnecessarily?

And we got told so many times, that EU now wants Chat Control. But it was a big fat lie.

It was demonstrably not a lie. There were so many regions in support of it that it was dangerously close to passing.

I’m thinking this post is the propaganda. Really really lazy propaganda.

Don’t worry, it’ll be back again in a few months with a new coat of paint.

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- DupaCycki@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  It was demonstrably not a lie. There were so many regions in support of it that it was dangerously close to passing.
  
  It really wasn’t. It couldn’t have been close to passing without a vote even taking place. The vote was scheduled for October 14th. However, since countries representing more than 35% of the EU population have declared their opposition to this proposal, it has been canceled.
  
  A lot of countries have indeed declared support, though this is completely separate from the vote. There, it’d require a qualified majority (55% of member states in favor, or countries representing 65% of the EU population in favor). Looking at MEPs’ public statements, it’s unlikely that the vote would have passed.
  
  Nonetheless, it remains troubling that they keep trying to force this proposal through. We have to push back every single time, but they only need it to pass once. Who knows what the future may hold.
  
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  - artyom@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    It couldn’t have been close to passing without a vote even taking place.
    
    Huh?
    
    countries representing more than 35% of the EU population have declared their opposition
    
    That’s not even half…
    
    A lot of countries have indeed declared support, though this is completely separate from the vote.
    
    That’s because, as you mentioned earlier, the vote never happened.
    
    There, it’d require a qualified majority (55% of member states in favor, or countries representing 65% of the EU population in favor)
    
    Which, according to your own numbers, they already had.
    
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- Alaknar@sopuli.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  There were so many regions in support of it that it was dangerously close to passing.
  
  Correct me if I’m wrong, but - it wasn’t “close to passing”, it was “close to being passed on as a proposal for a law”, requiring then a formal vote, no?
  
  So, even if Germany retained its support and the motion went forward, it could still get smashed during the vote.
  
  I’m thinking this post is the propaganda. Really really lazy propaganda.
  
  I think you’re misreading it and badly.
  
  I read it as: “don’t believe those who panicked that the EU is a fascist dictatorship that wants to subjugate the population, because it’s still a democracy where the people have the power, as proven by Chat Control being thrown in the bin yet again”.
  
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  - artyom@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    it wasn’t “close to passing”, it was “close to being passed on as a proposal for a law”, requiring then a formal vote, no?
    
    It’s the same thing. Why would a country show support for the legislation and then vote against it later?
    
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  - veniasilente@feddit.cl ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    So, even if Germany retained its support and the motion went forward, it could still get smashed during the vote.
    
    Why risk it even being considered for a law, when so many governments have become emboldened by Taco to show their real colours? The soonest it can be put down to rest, the better.
    
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ashughes@feddit.uk ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Not going to downvote this because the source article is useful, but OP’s take is ludicrous. Have we really reached the point where ALL media is propaganda?

It might be time to unplug society and plug it back in again.

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- technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  Have we really reached the point where ALL media is propaganda?
  
  Always has been.
  
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Passerby6497@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
“Because there was push back and the EU decided to not go forward with a vote and be embarrassed, that means they never really wanted it at all” is one of the dumbest takes I’ve heard in a minute.

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yakko@feddit.uk ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Are you mad that people got mad? Anger is not a subtle political instrument, a win is a win.

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tomalley8342@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

EU is a democracy with different opinions, and when a small group of facists tries to read your chats, it does not represent the EU opinion.

But the whole media got you thinking so. Proving even on Lemmy, you and me are extremly prone to propaganda.

This is what the EU democracy opinion was as of July 2024 BTW, before the “media got to you”: Image

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- artyom@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  That image is the thumbnail for OP’s link LOL
  
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UnfortunateShort@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Let’s not protest terrible ideas to not embarrass facists (who may or may not be part of your/our government) or what’s supposed to be the message here?

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- Alaknar@sopuli.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  The message here is: “don’t believe when people start screaming that the EU is a fascist organisation that wants to subjugate the population”.
  
  Because there was A LOT of that online when Chat Control reared its head.
  
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  - scratchee@feddit.uk ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    The difference between a fascist government and a democratic government can be distressingly thin, something we should all be aware of by now.
    
    In this case, the EU has just proven it is currently on the right side of that divide. When extremely unpopular and authoritarian ideas were considered, the public felt able to voice their disapproval and the government felt they had to listen. That is a crucial step. Good for you all.
    
    Sadly it likely will continue to require major work to keep the public on guard against future attempts like this one, but that’s life.
    
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  - iii@mander.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    That’s the same EU that mandates online de-anonymisation as a last minute amendment to an unrelated CSAM-directive.
    
    Some press releases: (1), (2), (3)
    
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exu@feditown.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
It didn’t pass because people pressured Germany to reject it. If Germany had stayed undecided they would definitely have had a vote on Chat Control and potentially passed it.

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- CosmoNova@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  But even if they voted on it and even if it did pass. European courts probably would have stopped it immediately.
  
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  - exu@feditown.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Maybe, but I’m much more comfortable with it failing as early as possible
    
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  - ByteJunk@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    This is the American approach to legislation: get in as many laws that favour you or your sponsors, and pray the courts let at least some of them through.
    
    That’s not how this is meant to work. That’s a last measure, when everything else has failed and hell’s about to break loose.
    
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  - Whostosay@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    This kind of haphazard approach isn’t going well for the US. We thought we could rely on decency.
    
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dogs0n@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Maybe I don’t understand, but the fact there is a vote for it (or even just talk about it) is enough for me to warrant everyones immediate action.

I’m glad the media got this to our attention asap, because we were able to react quickly (and stop this… hopefully its stopped and wont continue or come back).

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- ChogChog@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  “let your motto be ‘eternal vigilance is the price we pay for liberty.’”
  
  Freedom dies in the silence of the many at the hands of the few. We must always be adamant with opposition, because it’s hard to undo what has been done. The easiest way to put the genie back in the bottle is never letting it out in the first place.
  
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BananaTrifleViolin@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
What a bizarre take. The EU council is backing down - they do want chat control but each time they propose it they meet resistance and back down. Then they come back again and try again.

To suggest the public reaction is overblown and media manipulation is bizarre. This is the 3rd or 4th time the EU has attempted to get this through. Just because they chickened out of a vote doesn’t mean the politicians don’t want this.

In a democracy votes happen. In the EU they keep resurrecting this terrible idea hoping to get it through but then backing away if they don’t think they can win. They know if there was an actual vote it likely would put an end to his.

Also the EU council is the antithesis of a democracy. It is not directly elected - instead it’s a club of the heads of states of all the countries in the EU. It just represents who happens to be in charge of each country, and gives equal weights to all those countries regardless of their population size. The EU has a Parliament but it’s a fig leaf of democracy as so much power is held in bodies like the Council and the Commission (which is 1 post per state and horse traded not elected).

So please don’t make this out as a sign that EU democracy works. If EI democracy was wpwkrong properly they would have listened the first time, and they’d have moved to a directly elected system.For the executive Council and commission years ago.

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- vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I don’t know. I live in Russia. One can say things like “aggressor state” and such, but if democracy worked here, we’d probably have no nukes by now, and I don’t think this would have worked well, aggression or not.
  
  While the last few years show more and more persuasively that it’s unwise to let go of your weapons, any democracy in Russia in a long period between now and 1999 would have resulted in a radical contraction of the military and everything associated with it. Because it was very easy to believe that the world is different now and daddy USA is the global power for good that will keep peace. And that “rules-based order” really exists. And what not.
  
  Propaganda is a thing. The EU is maybe not democratic, but making it such one should first make brakes.
  
  At least the EU includes France which has nukes. In case world suddenly becomes even crazier.
  
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  - ctrl_alt_esc@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    What exactly would not have worked without nukes?
    
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cley_faye@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Good news. But I’m downvoting that post. OP’s living in reverse crying-wolf land, it seems.

First, Chat Control got further than previous attempts, with a bigger scope than ever. Being worried about that is not the result of propaganda.

Second, a lot of countries where on board, including Germany. Stuff changed after lot of feedback. You can be cynical all you want arguing that “people’s voice don’t matter” and saying there’s no causality there, but people made themselves heard, and thing moved. There’s no telling what would have happened if they didn’t.

The proposal being ultimately shot down (this time!) does not mean, at ALL, that it wasn’t a very dangerous one.

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- ripcord@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  This post reminds me of a bunch of the “y2k scare was a hoax and a waste of money!” stuff from back in the day. With a bunch of people not realizing how much shit was fixed and what massive success it all was.
  
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- Alaknar@sopuli.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  Second, a lot of countries where on board, including Germany
  
  That means nothing. The governments (which the stances of were being counted) have not that much to say on how the MEPs will vote.
  
  For example, if the Polish government was in favour of this, half of their MEPs would’ve still been against.
  
  You can be cynical all you want arguing that “people’s voice don’t matter” and saying there’s no causality there, but people made themselves heard, and thing moved
  
  I think he’s arguing the exact opposite, mate. He literally said that:
  
  EU is a democracy with different opinions, and when a small group of facists tries to read your chats, it does not represent the EU opinion
  
  There was a lot of panic about the EU being an oppressive “over-government”, trying to subjugate the population like the UK government is doing. That propaganda never made sense to me, but it felt very much like something the pro-russian mob would be spewing because it sows division and chaos, decreasing people’s appreciation of the EU, stoking exit views.
  
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HazardousBanjo@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
If that graphic is accurate, the media didn’t “get” anyone. Seems some countries are actually gun-ho with the elimination of privacy, and its a movement that doesn’t die with one failed vote.

Y’all are getting too fucking comfortable. Authoritarianism is always around the corner, even when things feel safe.

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- IzzyJ@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  The biggest problem with democracy is it demands a level of vigilance most people are not capable of
  
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3abas@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Jesus Christ, you think this will be the last attempt?

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- Tryenjer@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  The fact that these guys even proposed (and more than once) something that so profoundly violates the fundamental right to privacy of European citizens is cause for great alarm.
  
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- BD89@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  There will be another one within 5 months.
  
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Mechaguana@programming.dev ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
This is a terrible map, lumping neutral and opposed together? I am against chat control but ffs we don’t need more misleading media with the internet already dying under waves of automated misinformation

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- LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Agreed
  
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RunawayFixer@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Would the outcome have been the same without people in the media repeatedly bringing this to everyone’s attention? Probably not, because there would have been no public pressure against it, while the shadow groups that want this would have still been lobbying the politicians.

Something bad is going to happen.
Some people advocate to stop that bad thing.
Even more people are holding their clutches that the bad thing might happen.
Because of public pressure, action is undertaken to prevent the bad thing from happening.
Thanks to those efforts, the bad thing is successfully averted.

Some random person: that bad thing was never going to happen, look at all those gullible people who were panicking over nothing, we could have just done nothing and the outcome would have been the same.

Also known as the “preparedness paradox”: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preparedness_paradox

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- ChronicEntertainment@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  👆 exactly
  
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Tetsuo@jlai.lu ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
We will have to fight Chat Control again and again…

Mass Surveillance should be blocked at the constitutional level in all countries.

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- vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Mass surveillance is a very bad solution to a real problem. The more years pass, the bigger are the chances of a war with equal adversary or worse, a conventional normal war or not. And the real problem would be cutting the flow of intelligence and control messages the potential adversary possesses.
  
  If that potential adversary is US or close to US, this would require either going offline with jamming all communication over EU borders and other such things, while not doing mass surveillance, so that nothing got through, or mass surveillance to proactively filter out and find the specific actors leaking intelligence and neutralize them, while not having the expenses associated with the previous variant. Those expenses would be such that they could kill the EU economies very quickly, not even talking about protests and such turmoil that what you have now won’t feel anything deep.
  
  Just playing devil’s advocate.
  
  It’s either that or limiting flow of information over EU borders, which, honestly, is not so bad, except without wide popular understanding and support it would lead to what I said.
  
  The fact that wars are rarely declared in our time really hurts.
  
  And if you think this is nuts, then you haven’t been paying attention in history classes.
  
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  - xthexder@l.sw0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    What does any of this have to do with the government forcing backdoors into otherwise encrypted chats? The point is that nobody but the recipient can read it, not even governments.
    
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mrductape@eviltoast.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Troll post. Not falling for it. Bye.

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AnAnonymousApe@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
What an idiotic take on the issue.

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DandomRude@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I think you should never take these things lightly.

It’s better to be too cautious than not cautious enough, especially since there are powerful interest groups that want mass surveillance.

The people don’t want that, of course, but many politicians do, as evidenced by the fact that Palantir is being introduced in Germany, of all places, and completely illegally. This must be prevented, and the population has a role to play in this—for example, with petitions like this one, which already has more than 400,000 signatures: Trump software Palantir: Stop surveillance plans

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Tattorack@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
What kind of nonsense is this writeup? Media “got to me”? Look, you see Denmark? You see how it’s in support of chat control?

Yeah, that’s my country. So it’s a rather serious issue here.

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unabart@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
A lot. A. Lot.

All that trouble to clown people… uses “alot”.

Kills me 🙃😘

Thank goodness for no Chat Control. Shit’s straight-up Bozo Time.

They’re bound to try again in a few months.

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technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
There’s no media about the EU in USA. Nobody gives a crap. It’s all just fascist porpaganda about how genocide is good and windmills cause tornados.

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- monkeyslikebananas2@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Wait, have people been setting their windmills to the tornado mode? I always thought it odd to have that setting.
  
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- KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Why in the world would this be talking about the USA?
  
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  - balance8873@lemmy.myserv.one ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Maybe like everyone else that poster was confused what the actual fuck OP was on about
    
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saltesc@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

Proving even on Lemmy, you and me are extremly prone to propaganda.

Uuuuh… This place is a breeding ground of heavily biased propaganda. Just look at your feed, it’s all news articles reinforcing a side of things. It’s got its fair share of users that don’t look at things from a broad perspective and most get mad when they perceive their opinion is being challenged, even when it’s not. That’s why it’s riddled with posts that aren’t for interest; they’re rooted in agenda that is to either push narrative or reinforce ego.

And if your filter lists aren’t full of users, communities, and instances, it’s very plausible your mind my be one that’s easily duped, because the shits got to be one of the most obvious places on the internet to spot it. Part of the Lemmy experience is maintaining and customising the feed.

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- Perspectivist@feddit.uk ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Lemmy is a perfect example of the often unspoken side of propaganda: when you’re surrounded by people who all seem to share the same opinion, you’re far less likely to speak up if you disagree. In extreme cases, this leads to situations where the majority actually disagrees but stays silent, falsely assuming they’re in the minority. That’s how a vocal minority ends up controlling the silent majority - and it’s exactly why authoritarian governments try to silence the media. This is why freedom of speech and a free press are so important, and why silencing dissenting voices, even with good intentions, ends up mimicking the tactics of authoritarian regimes.
  
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jol@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
The EU officials are not elected by the people. Some of them are absolute idiots. The people pushing for this will continue making adjustments to Chat Control until one of the countries changes sides. The media is absolutely right.

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- sleen@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  There always seems to be some kind of corruption amongst the governing class. And even if the government is technically guided by the people, this dynamic gets ultimately manipulated to further their authoritarian tyranny.
  
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solrize@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
What politicians want and what the public wants are often totally different things. People vote on a few hot-button issues like immigration, and for stuff that gets less attention, politicians do what they want. So calling attention to chat control likely made a significant difference.

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reksas@sopuli.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
just like y2k was just a media hoax, since it didnt happen?

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frog_meister@lemmings.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
What a retarded blog post.

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