scholarly evidences for the resurrection

Comments

• pwnicholson@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  You have to see the huge logical leap you’re making in your main point, right?

  Just because some of Jesus’ disciples believed they saw a resurrected Jesus isn’t scientific proof that he was resurrected. It just means they believed he did.

  You’re searching for facts in a realm of faith. Either you believe or you don’t. If you only believe in something that is proven, then you don’t have faith, just conviction.

  “Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.” Heb 11:1

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• Susaga@sh.itjust.works ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  This is entirely the wrong community for what you’re trying to do.

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  • Lyra_Lycan@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    /lostredditor. This isn’t even the right platform

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    • hoshikarakitaridia@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Mhm apparently there’s a !lostlemmings@lemmy.world but no clue if it’s still active.

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• psx_crab@lemmy.zip ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  based on the 3 facts above. what would a rational person conclude?

  I concluded that you’ve misinterpreted whatever fact you’re trying to show.

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• diykeyboards@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  1. There’s a critical distinction between “we believe they believed it” and “we believe they believed it, so it must be true.” Even if every early Christian believed it makes zero impact as evidence for the resurrection claim.
  2. As others here said, history is littered with those who have suffered and died for known liars. (Lookin’ at you, MAGA…)
  3. I’m not the one making the claim. I don’t have to disprove anything. Christians claim a magic man did magic things two millenia ago. It’s on them to prove it. Prove it could happen, or did happen. Even if you proved he lived, died, and was resurrected, you’d still have to prove that a God exists and that it caused it.

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• Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Replace Jesus with Bigfoot, Disciples with Cryptozoologists, and resurrection with existence, and let me know what a rational person would conclude.

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  • b_tr3e@feddit.org ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Bigfoot died for our sins!

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    • Vanth@reddthat.com ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      But like, why? If Bigfoot is as big and powerful and omniscient as the cryptozoologists claim, why did he have to die instead of just stomping his big feet?

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• hoshikarakitaridia@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  I’ll take the low hanging fruit and discuss whether this is in line with the community rules:

  You are violating rules 1, 2, 5 and arguably 10.

  1 & 2 need to no further argument; they are syntactical in nature.

  Rule 5: Is about not posting something to further an agenda or spurr debates. Your post is more argument than fact and description. I think that’s pretty self-explanatory.

  Rule 10: the fact outlined is not true, and we don’t need to have a religious discussion about that; we can merely look at this in isolation. Whether Jesus is real or not can’t be proven because we project something personally onto him. If you believe in Jesus, that’s fine, but this hasn’t passed the scientific threshold of being a fact.

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• betterdeadthanreddit@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  A rational person does not come to the conclusion that a dead person came back to life. One could disingenuously bring up medical resuscitation here but that’s clearly not what’s being presented in the Jesus resurrection story.

  Point two is invalid, history is littered with the corpses of people who died for liars, losers, frauds, fanatics, lunatics, and dead criminals.

  Agreed on point three, the resurrection didn’t happen.

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• Vanth@reddthat.com ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  critical scholars say the disciples did think they saw the resurrected Jesus (based on a survey of 1400 journal articles since 1975)

  If the claim is “1400 journal articles since 1975 claim the disciples though they saw Jesus resurrect”, sure, I can believe 1400 articles do say that.

  I fail to see how 1400 articles from 1975 and on prove that disciples from 2000+ years ago actually did see Jesus resurrect. Pardon any math errors, but I believe any potential eye witnesses were long dead by 1975.

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• not_woody_shaw@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  It sounds like you’re conflating legal proof with scientific proof. They’re very different concepts. All your evidence is hearsay, which is very weak as a legal proof, and completely meaningless as scientific proof.

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• waterSticksToMyBalls@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  You forgot to source all of your claims and most of the books of the new testament were written around 100 ad so no they didn’t.

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• Hermit_Lailoken@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  You should know that the story of Jesus’s resurrection is an allegory.

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• JC1432@discuss.online ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  atheists please answer the question below

  so virtually all critical scholars say the disciples did think they saw the resurrected Jesus (based on a survey of 1400 journal articles since 1975),

  even anti christian agnostic Dr. Bart Ehrman states “there can be no doubt, historically, that some of Jesus’ followers came to believe he was raised from the dead – no doubt whatsoever. This is how Christianity started.”

  do you disagree with virtually all critical scholars, including agnostic/atheist scholars?

  second, knowing that the disciples PLUS christian killer paul, and agnostic James ALL went to their deaths proclaiming what they KNOW they saw, the resurrected Jesus. (they would not willingly die for a KNOWN liar, loser, fraud, fanatic, lunatic dead criminal who spoke against their cherished religion, if jesus had not been resurrected

  third. all naturalistic explanations for the resurrection were debunked since the late 1800s. you cannot give me a naturalistic explanations that hasn’t been debunked can you?

  based on the 3 facts above. what would a rational person conclude?

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  • SketchySeaBeast@lemmy.ca ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Something like 4% of people in 1997 believed Elvis was still alive.

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    • Nasan@sopuli.xyz ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      He is and I will commit crimes against humanity to assert my flawed beliefs and worldview.

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    • xePBMg9@lemmynsfw.com ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      The movie Bubba Ho-Tep, clearly show he is still alive.

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    • Glytch@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Image

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  • betterdeadthanreddit@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Please see other comment. Same response to your re-statement.

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  • grumpo_potamus@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Nah.

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  • BussyCat@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    As others have said

    Your first point is useless, as you are saying the people who believe in something think they saw something.

    The second point is the same as the first

    The third point is an interesting point but they hinge on the idea that he really died and was really resurrected when even if you accept the first two points there are many other possible interpretations.

    1. he wasn’t resurrected in the sense of died and was reborn but instead it was a spiritual awakening where he meditated in a cave and returned as a spiritual leader

    2. he wasn’t really dead but was instead in some form of coma

    3. he sustained an injury that normally would kill a person but was able to shortly recover before dying for real 40 days later

    4. it wasn’t him who supposedly came back but someone imitating him

    5. it wasn’t really him who was crucified and was instead someone who pretended to be Jesus to spare him

    6. he did really die and his followers made up the story to make him seem larger and help spread his teachings

    And those are just off the top of my head in a few minutes. If you want to have faith there is nothing wrong with that but considering the utter lack of tangible evidence you aren’t going to convert anyone.

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