If you were reincarnated, wouldn't it be elsewhere in the universe?

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• FriendOfDeSoto@startrek.website ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I think it’s safe to say these thoughts weren’t necessarily factored in in the first beliefs in reincarnation. A lot of this stuff is about thinking horizons. If you don’t know about the vastness of space, you think everything happens around you. So you must be reborn close as well. And then the universe is being revealed (still) bit by bit. If your science isn’t great, you could be forgiven for thinking the world is 6000 years old and maybe created in a week. But then your horizons broaden and there is a lag in how the new knowledge filters into these established belief systems. So if you tried to argue logically about a reincarnation system, yes, it would be likely that you could become a rock near a supermassive black hole or a slug on a planet far, far away just as much as an ant on Earth (depending on how you fared in life). But logic and belief are natural opponents. I think all the Dalai Lamas were reincarnated on this planet. So that’s odd then, isn’t it? Doubt lengthens the lag.

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• CromulantCrow@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Why do you reincarnate? Let’s take the Buddhist view. The cycle of birth and death (rebirth) ends when you let go of craving for existence, craving for sensual pleasures, and ignorance (not seeing things as they truly are). (aka the Asavas.) So, that means these things are the conditions for rebirth. And they are the source of karma in your current life. Do you dream of being rich, healthy, strong, pretty, etc? That’s the first one. Do you have fantasies of sex, dream of the next meal you’re going to make, or just want to see the sunset from a mountain top? That’s the second one. Or are you convinced your individual self is separate from everything else and/or has some permanent existence? (a rough inaccurate summary of ignorance)

  If any of these things are true they are probably focused on your current life. You probably don’t have fantasies of sex with odd slugs in proxima centauri. You probably don’t dream of being a brain parasite. The conditions for the next rebirth are set up by your cravings. And, most likely, you crave something distinctly human. Ergo, the next birth generated by your karma will most likely be human.

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  • lunarul@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    You probably don’t have fantasies of sex with odd slugs in proxima centauri. You probably don’t dream of being a brain parasite.

    You’re making some big assumptions here

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  • TheBat@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    The conditions for the next rebirth are set up by your cravings. And, most likely, you crave something distinctly human. Ergo, the next birth generated by your karma will most likely be human.

    geektyrant.com/…/margot-robbie-reportedly-set-to-…

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• thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  you are a part of the life cycle of this planet… maybe when we start getting funky with the little green men and ladies, our future fucked up kids can reincarnate as something on either planet(s)

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• november@lemmy.vg ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Depends on how fast souls can travel. If they’re limited to the speed of light it’s probably easier for them to wait around for another Earth creature to be born.

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• Fondots@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Just pointing out some assumptions you’re making and shoehorning in a couple of my own thoughts on the matter.

  1. We’re assuming that there is life elsewhere in the universe. (I personally tend to believe there is something, somewhere out there that could check the boxes to be considered “life” but it’s not exactly a sure thing)

  2. We’re assuming that whatever life exists out there possesses a soul (If I did believe in souls, which I personally do not, I don’t think that every living thing necessarily would have a soul- bacteria, fungus, plants, etc. I wouldn’t think have souls, nor necessarily all animals, I don’t think I’d say that things like placozoans, sea sponges, coral, and jellyfish have souls for example.)

  3. We’re assuming that those souls operate in a similar manner to our own and are compatible with us. As far as we can tell all life on earth evolved from a common ancestor, so all souls have at least have somewhat similar biological “hardware” (wetware? Squishyware?) to run on. Would our souls be compatible with life elsewhere in the universe that might be based around totally different chemistry?

  4. Even if they’re technically compatible, would our souls even be part of the same system as the souls of aliens? I think that in most belief systems that involve reincarnation, the point of reincarnation is to somehow build upon the souls’ prior experiences on earth, to make up for or be punished for things you did wrong, to settle unfinished business, to inch closer to enlightenment with new experiences and knowledge, etc. Can you do that effectively if your soul reincarnates on an entirely different planet? Could, for example, the Dalai Lama, be an effective spiritual leader for the Tibetan people if he reincarnated somewhere near Betelgeuse? And if we are currently operating in 2 different “soul-ar” systems (couldn’t resist the pun) what happens if first contact is made? Do our two soul cycles merge into one since our two civilizations would be able to have an impact on one another? Does it happen evenly across the entire human race? Would a member of, for example, the Sentinelese people, who would probably remain unaware of and have no impact on the affairs of aliens, be part of that merged system, or would their souls remain largely in their own bubble?

  5. How fast can souls travel? Are they bound by the light speed limit that everything else in the universe seems to be, or can they go faster than that? If they can, does this open up some sort of back-door to FTL travel or communication where all we need to do is off somebody and let them reincarnate across the universe to awaken their latent memories of past lives? Can we encode information on a soul somehow and transmit it that way?

  Sort of tangential to parts 2, 3, and 4, the Catholic Church, while not believing in reincarnation, has actually given some thought to the idea of alien souls, and determined that it’s possible, even likely, that if there is intelligent life out there somewhere, that they may not be in need of Jesus’ salvation in the same way humans are. Since they’re not descended from Adam & Eve like they believe all humans are, they may not be burdened with original sin. So there’s at least one religion that thinks alien souls may be, in some way, fundamentally different from our own.

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• memfree@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Maybe souls reincarnate anywhere into anything.

  Or maybe a soul only reincarnates into related beings. In the story of the The Goat Who Saved the Priest, the goat itself had been a priest in a past life. There was a relationship to its actions in past lives and the form it took. I've heard versions of that story that suggest the goat had been the very priest it 'saves' (because souls can reincarnate in the past or future?).

  Perhaps if we had intergalactic flight and our actions impacted creatures on other planets, we'd reincarnate into those creatures. Then again, perhaps we already do.

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  • ToastedRavioli@midwest.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I like the perspective of reincarnation and humanity that Andy Weir posits in The Egg, which is not in line with the perspective of Buddhism but offers an easy way of thinking about reincarnation as less self-centered.

    The Egg by Andy Weir

    You were on your way home when you died. It was a car accident. Nothing particularly remarkable, but fatal nonetheless. You left behind a wife and two children. It was a painless death. The EMTs tried their best to save you, but to no avail. Your body was so utterly shattered you were better off, trust me. And that’s when you met me.

    ”What… what happened?” You asked. “Where am I?” “You died,” I said, matter-of-factly. No point in mincing words. “There was a… a truck and it was skidding…” “Yup,” I said. “I… I died?” “Yup. But don’t feel bad about it. Everyone dies,” I said. You looked around. There was nothingness. Just you and me. “What is this place?” You asked. “Is this the afterlife?” “More or less,” I said. “Are you god?” You asked. “Yup,” I replied. “I’m God.” “My kids… my wife,” you said. “What about them?Will they be all right?” “That’s what I like to see,” I said. “You just died and your main concern is for your family. That’s good stuff right there.” You looked at me with fascination. To you, I didn’t look like God. I just looked like some man. Or possibly a woman. Some vague authority figure, maybe. More of a grammar school teacher than the almighty. “Don’t worry,” I said. “They’ll be fine. Your kids will remember you as perfect in every way. They didn’t have time to grow contempt for you. Your wife will cry on the outside, but will be secretly relieved. To be fair, your marriage was falling apart. If it’s any consolation, she’ll feel very guilty for feeling relieved.” “Oh,” you said. “So what happens now? Do I go to heaven or hell or something?” “Neither,” I said. “You’ll be reincarnated.” “Ah,” you said. “So the Hindus were right,” “All religions are right in their own way,” I said. “Walk with me.” You followed along as we strode through the void. “Where are we going?” “Nowhere in particular,” I said. “It’s just nice to walk while we talk.” “So what’s the point, then?” You asked. “When I get reborn, I’ll just be a blank slate, right? A baby. So all my experiences and everything I did in this life won’t matter.” “Not so!” I said. “You have within you all the knowledge and experiences of all your past lives. You just don’t remember them right now.” I stopped walking and took you by the shoulders. “Your soul is more magnificent, beautiful, and gigantic than you can possibly imagine. A human mind can only contain a tiny fraction of what you are. It’s like sticking your finger in a glass of water to see if it’s hot or cold. You put a tiny part of yourself into the vessel, and when you bring it back out, you’ve gained all the experiences it had.“You’ve been in a human for the last 48 years, so you haven’t stretched out yet and felt the rest of your immense consciousness. If we hung out here for long enough, you’d start remembering everything. But there’s no point to doing that between each life.” “How many times have I been reincarnated, then?” “Oh lots. Lots and lots. An in to lots of different lives.” I said. “This time around, you’ll be a Chinese peasant girl in 540 AD.” “Wait, what?” You stammered. “You’re sending me back in time?” “Well, I guess technically. Time, as you know it, only exists in your universe. Things are different where I come from.” “Where you come from?” You said. “Oh sure,” I explained “I come from somewhere. Somewhere else. And there are others like me. I know you’ll want to know what it’s like there, but honestly you wouldn’t understand.” “Oh,” you said, a little let down. “But wait. If I get reincarnated to other places in time, I could have interacted with myself at some point.” “Sure. Happens all the time. And with both lives only aware of their own lifespan you don’t even know it’s happening.” “So what’s the point of it all?” “Seriously?” I asked. “Seriously? You’re asking me for the meaning of life? Isn’t that a little stereotypical?” “Well it’s a reasonable question,” you persisted. I looked you in the eye. “The meaning of life, the reason I made this whole universe, is for you to mature.” “You mean mankind? You want us to mature?” “No, just you. I made this whole universe for you. With each new life you grow and mature and become a larger and greater intellect.” “Just me? What about everyone else?” “There is no one else,” I said. “In this universe, there’s just you and me.” You stared blankly at me. “But all the people on earth…” “All you. Different incarnations of you.” “Wait. I’m everyone!?” “Now you’re getting it,” I said, with a congratulatory slap on the back. “I’m every human being who ever lived?” “Or who will ever live, yes.” “I’m Abraham Lincoln?” “And you’re John Wilkes Booth, too,” I added. “I’m Hitler?” You said, appalled. “And you’re the millions he killed.” “I’m Jesus?” “And you’re everyone who followed him.” You fell silent. “Every time you victimized someone,” I said, “you were victimizing yourself. Every act of kindness you’ve done, you’ve done to yourself. Every happy and sad moment ever experienced by any human was, or will be, experienced by you.” You thought for a long time. “Why?” You asked me. “Why do all this?” “Because someday, you will become like me. Because that’s what you are. You’re one of my kind. You’re my child.” “Whoa,” you said, incredulous. “You mean I’m a god?” “No. Not yet. You’re a fetus. You’re still growing. Once you’ve lived every human life throughout all time, you will have grown enough to be born.” “So the whole universe,” you said, “it’s just…” “An egg.” I answered. “Now it’s time for you to move on to your next life.” And I sent you on your way.

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    • TheLeadenSea@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I don’t like that story as it is a profoundly scary idea that I have to experience all human suffering in billions of lives.

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• LodeMike@lemmy.today ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Read up on quantum immortality :)))

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• gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  the way that i think about rebirth typically is that you get to inherit the world that you helped create, i.e. if you’ve been a nice person, you’re gonna encounter your previous self in your next life, independent on whether you’ve had children or not, even across species.

  so, since we didn’t interfere with alien species, probably we’re not gonna be reborn as them.

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• Ashiggan@eviltoast.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I mean I’m willing to accept whatever the universe needs me to be in the next life. Maybe I’ll be a deer. Maybe I’ll be a tick. Maybe I’ll end up being a Dalek or a Macra.

  I sincerely hope that no one believes reincarnation is locked down to earth species only.

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• gedaliyah@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I’m planning to come back as Fermi’s Paradox.

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  • DemBoSain@midwest.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I’ll probably be just another Boltzmann Brain.

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• Akasazh@feddit.nl ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I have thought of a monadic theory of reincarnation.

  A monad was vind by Leibniz as a particular individual being. This can be a human, animal, plant or even atom. All of these heb varient levels of consciousness. An atom can just sit somewhere in a piece of rock in the universe.

  Of course atoms are day more numerous than more conscious brings. I like the idea that we could ‘reincarnate’ (as no meat is present in most of these) in many beings. But only very rarely one of higher consciousness.

  That way your being a even low conscious being is very rare, even more so a being that can reflect on the natural world.

  This way of thinking makes one more considerate towards other beings, as their time in this form is so rare and incredulous.

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• HubertManne@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  maybe there is some sort of inverse square law over distance.

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• yermaw@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I would assume it only applies to earth until we nail down interstellar travel or something. Assuming we actually exist, like the soul/consciousness/fundamental-youness has a presence.

  If we exist outside of reality, like somebody standing at an arcade machine, yeah probably anywhere but earth, statistically.

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• Perspectivist@feddit.uk ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  The level of consciousness in something like a brain parasite or a slug is probably so dim that it barely feels like anything to be one. So even if you were reincarnated as one, you likely wouldn’t have much of a subjective experience of it. The only way to really experience a new life after reincarnation would be to come back as something with a complex enough mind to actually have a vivid sense of existence. Not that it matters much - it’s not like you’d remember any of your past lives anyway.

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