Submitted 10 months ago by IloveyouMF@lemmy.world to nostupidquestions@lemmy.world
I think progressives never thought about this because we banked on immigration and demographic change allowing us to win culturally and electorally but the issue is immigrants tend to be overwhelmingly male, that is how Trump won actually he won over a lot of Hispanic,Black,Asian and indigenous men who feel humiliated by a new culture, economy and world.
So what can we do rhetorically and policy wise to win more young men over ?
The first thing is that progressives need to stop being intellectually dishonest. The movement needs to admit that the world view is a technocratic one in which the best course of action given the evidence available is the one that will guide the decisions of the movement, not popular sentiment.
As of right now the progressive agenda looks like a mass of contradictions whose only identity is opposition to MAGA and the right with such intensity that the right has in fact co-opted many of the stances that traditionally belonged on the left, losing the support of the working class.
Seen through a Marxist lens, it is not surprising, the progressive movement in the US is not a worker’s movement but rather a managerial class movement.
its just too disorganized, no coherent or concrete motives for progressive.
I agree that we need to be more technocratic as I think democracy is kind of running it’s course in the world. Maga also has a lot of contradictions to be fair
It doesn’t matter what MAGA does or what MAGA is, progressives need to define themselves independently of that. But a popular workers movement it is not. That crown for right or wrong belongs to MAGA.
Male stereotypes have to be culturally broken first. Men are being taught that showing any emotions other than anger and hate is effeminate. They’re being taught that empathy is weakness, that education is stupidity, that freedom is slavery.
Everything that makes men human is being stripped away, leaving a husk of burning hate awaiting marching orders. They need to reconnect to humanity.
Frankly, I was going to say almost the opposite. Conservatives are appealing to young men by decrying the “woke” process of breaking down those stereotypes. It’s a reaction to those “traditional” masculine traits being challenged by a more enlightened society.
The key is not breaking down those gender norms, but rechanneling that masculine energy and “gender pride” into something healthy and beneficial. We need to reframe the conversation, because when you attack, people instinctively defend. Instead, we should model the new masculinity, one where being tough means being confident enough to stand out or be yourself. Where being a bro means being a friend, not a douchebag. Real men have the strength to admit their faults and ask for help. Real power is punching up, not down, and real bravery is accepting people for who they are.
Contrast someone like Joe Rogan with Pedro Pascal. Which one is a “Real Man™”? Which one should we celebrate and focus on? Boys need role models, because we don’t know how to handle our hormones at an age when everything is confusing. If you tell them their instincts are wrong, they will retreat to a safe space where someone else will tell them that society is wrong and they should be as gross and misogynistic as they can be.
Real men are creative. Real men are kind. Real men are curious. Real men are sincere. Real men admit mistakes and accept consequences. Real men lift others up. Real men are able to ask for help. Real men are comfortable with their sexuality, and are not afraid of exploring their preferences.
All children are born selfish and frightened. We have to learn to be better through empathy. Without positive role models, we cannot learn to overcome those selfish impulses, and we cannot stand up to the bullies that will try to sell the red pill.
Because no matter what we do, there will always be conservative dipshits talking about how oppressed they are because they can’t insult people by calling them “girly” or “gay” or “retarded” anymore. There will always be angry gym rats who think big biceps and a fast car will fix their insecurities. There will always be bullies, and we should always stand up to them.
Also, every boy should watch Ted Lasso. Seriously, there has never been a better breakdown of male stereotypes than that show.
40 something male that has struggled to overcome toxic masculinity. I mean I was literally slapped silly by my parents and grandparents for crying when I was 5 and told “boys dont cry”. I mean I’ve cried 3 times in my life before coming to terms with needing to change. Eventalking to my wife it’s taken years for her to accept that Im allowed to feel more emotions than anger and laughter.
Im a foster parent now and it’s been a lot of work to internalize my stuff but damn im supportive if the boys we have want to feel their feelings. 3 year old wanted a rainbow shirt and I got it for him but his dickehad machismo father called him a faggot. Oh boy I made sure he wore his favorite shirt for every visit.
I am going to be honest, I think women need to be a a part of this. We are used to being right in regards to gender conflict because usually we are but one thing I agree with men on is that every woman says they want men to share their feelings more but many women lose respect for a man they see as weak.
Bell Hooks talks a lot about this so you can go read her.
I do not find that to be the case at all in my circles, it’s usually the guys giving shit to other guys for expressing emotion and the emotionally expressive people (including women) riffing them for back for being assholes. There’s certainly a song and dance to doing this effectively.
I don’t really think it should be a gendered expectation but rather an everyone expectation. If someone is being vulnerable with you that wouldn’t otherwise, don’t be an asshole. If someone needs to be called out for exhibiting rude behaviour to someone else, do so in the way that works for your circumstances.
I don’t know. How do you teach empathy?
You got to beat it into people
This is proof that the current progressive agenda causes the same kind of brain rot MAGA does.
Sell it to women first and let them broadcast that they wont date any regressives.
Im assuming the regressives are mostly young cishet men
Women don’t want effeminate men.
first of all, progressive men don’t imply them being effeminate.
secondly, you should be aware that “women” refers to a group of about 4 billion people. that means, if what you say is false for only 1% you’re wronging 40 million people. (but what you wrote is probably false for a much higher percentage. just like men, women can like different and multiple types at the same time and their preference can even change over time)
the issue with that is with less women dating period since less women want to settle. Would that work ?
There just isn’t a gaurentee or even a good enough chance that being a progressive or supporting progressive politics will get you a girlfriend or wife so would this kind of incentive system work ?
If you want the carrot and stick to work you have to give the carrot.
Telling women to just date random progressive guys for the cause even ignoring the fact it’s not ery ethical. I just don’t think you could convince enough women to do it for it to work
they don’t even have to date them. dating them and publicly showing the dates off (like in tiktok videos etc) helps and counters misogynists like the Tates or ppl claiming girls only date rich guys etc, but just hanging with boys and making clear they are leftist and like being around leftist boys will sway lots of boys. talking politics also helps.
i remember in my teens there were multiple girls doing this and it helped a lot. there was this punk girl and she would hang with like four boys and play them punk music, make them tea and hand out mixtapes and flyers for protests. another was a girl scout and met boy scouts on scout camps and they were following her around like creeps, but she invited groups of them to activities after the camp and got them to go to peace protests and help at cummunity events. if a cute girl asks a boy to help her hand out flyers for a good cause at the town fair most can’t resist. and many girls have no idea how cute they are. they see stupid ads with supermodels and compare themselves with them, but there’s a very wide range of what boys like and they’re very likely in it, for most boys, even if they think they’re ugly.
hah that’s true, good point
You don’t like cishet men much, do you?
I said regressives, most of which I’d wager are cishet men.
That doesn’t count cishet men outside of the regressive group. I hope, otherwise I’d be in trouble with myself
Without having stats to back it up, it seems perfectly logical to me. Cishet men are the people conservative views benefit the most, and they’re the people folks like Andrew Tate specifically target. If I had to make a blind guess, I’d have said it’s cishet men, too.
BombOmOm@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Start by no longer telling men who have done nothing wrong they are responsible for the misdeeds of others. It breeds resentment and closes people to anything else you have to say.
themeatbridge@lemmy.world 10 months ago
This comes up a lot, and I really don’t know where it comes from. Who is telling you that you’re responsible for the misdeeds of others? Seriously, point that out, because I’m in my mid forties, I’m a white cishet American man, and I’ve never felt like I was being blamed for the sins of people who look and fuck like me. Really, it just sounds like a conservative strawman talking point, because nobody does this.
Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
Yapping on about the patriarchy, white privilege, male privilege etc is one example.
Shardikprime@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Literally the talk about how privileged men are is that