Submitted 10 months ago by essell@lemmy.world to showerthoughts@lemmy.world
Maybe god does prevent Evil and the Universe is totally just and fair. The problem is humans thinking their version of Evil is the correct one. Maybe.
There is no good and evil, just people trying to justify their decisions as rational. There is nothing else required, to fuck up the world, just people and their desires to “help” and “protect” everyone from everything.
Maybe we are the freaking rogue demons
Or maybe she’s born with it.
Or maybe it’s maybaline.
Maybe it’s sulferine
I wasn’t expecting the intrusive adds on the comment section
Common* christian theology posits that God is a perfect judge of law and fact, seeing as she has both infinite patience, infinite subjective time, and accurate knowledge of everyone’s points of view.
“Why does evil persist on Earth then” comes down to either said evil being necessary for some unseen purpose, said evil being irrelevant to God’s plans, or said evil being the consequence of some mortal privilege. Or some combination thereof.
There has been a lot of christian thought about why evil persists, and settling on an answer to it is essentially the base of all persistent ecumenical schisms. Other religions add even greater complexity, because once you examine perspectives off the abeahamic tree you quickly find that not even “Good” is consistently defined.
The moral and philosophical questions don’t get much easier if you remove God from the equation, or even if you adopt a nihilistic “only the momentary physical now matters” perspective.
If you don’t believe me, try coming up with an answer to “why is killing bad” that you can get agreement on. (Not just “is killing bad,” but an actual casual why.)
Morality is only made complex because humans like inserting their ego into things.
No, all morality is are the behaviours that benefit us as a social species, put to language and culture.
Why is rape bad? Theft bad? Indiscriminate killing bad? Because if we did these things we’d be unable to use our unique species’ power to overcome hardships and thrive; creating and maintaining social groups that allow for the division of tasks.
I just wish we could collectively realize the whole enterprise is epistemologically bankrupt.
It is okay to stop trying to apply reason once you have encountered the first unreconcilable contradiction.
There are no such things as unreconcilable contradictions.
*: and by “common” I mean “as I believe most Christians understand it.”. I’m sure some don’t, and that there’s at least one sect that would call me funny names for saying anything.
There’s no god and playing around with angles how and why a god exists can poison your person
I think I can handle it. 😄
Poison in a sense that you start believing in god. Poison not in the sense there’s some dark mysterious evil thing.
I guess you’re gone already, which is fine 😅
Some gods are evil.
Or God is also evil. Who says God needs to be nice?
Not that I believe one exists.
The stories about god are a copy of a copy of a copy. Dumbed down. Rendered in terms of popular metaphor. Light years from the original report by the weird old tripping mystic in the cave.
The photons both live in a pineapple and are under the sea at the same time unless you observe it, then the crabbypatty waveform collapses.
Certainly, that was the Gnostics viewpoint. It has as much merit as any other
“If you think the point in life is to be happy and live long I can see how you’d be confused”
Not sure where I heard it but I think of it often.
I’m a father and I think of god the same way I think of being a parent. I want my kids to learn things and I want them to return home and tell me about it.
If good, evil and god were phenomena that could be observed directly then we’d understand better through that. No thinking required.
It’s interesting to consider the definition of real in that sense then, because many experiences do not have an objective cause, or at least not one that directly correlates to the subjective experience.
God, evil, ghosts, happiness. They’re real In the sense that we can experience them, however, the shared understanding largely comes from an internal place, a necessary agreement of experience with the concepts of its objects.
I dont care whether ‘evil’ is prevented, I care whether undue suffering could be prevented.
If the bar is so high, that God’s only obligation is preventing Cthulhu from fucking out butts, then he’s just as much of a cunt as squid-daddy.
I’m suddenly both curious and terrified to go and check if there’s any rule 42 of Squid Daddy.
There is no God.
I saw a post in atheism mostly about this. I decided not to post. I don’t believe in forcing my views on other people who clearly didn’t ask for them.
That would depend on your experience, surely. And experience varies.
Well, we have a word for god so we must have a concept of god.
Even if there’s no objective phenomenon which corresponds to the concept, the subjective experiences alone are worthy of attention and consideration
There’s a zen story about that
Once upon a time there was a Chinese farmer whose horse ran away. That evening, all of his neighbors came around to commiserate. They said, “We are so sorry to hear your horse has run away. This is most unfortunate.” The farmer said, “Maybe.”
The next day the horse came back bringing seven wild horses with it, and in the evening everybody came back and said, “Oh, isn’t that lucky. What a great turn of events. You now have eight horses!” The farmer again said, “Maybe.”
The following day his son tried to break one of the horses, and while riding it, he was thrown and broke his leg. The neighbors then said, “Oh dear, that’s too bad,” and the farmer responded, “Maybe.”
The next day the conscription officers came around to conscript people into the army, and they rejected his son because he had a broken leg. Again all the neighbors came around and said, “Isn’t that great!” Again, he said, “Maybe.”
This.
Love it.
Evil and pain/suffering/discomfort are not the same. Evil has an intention behind it. Where is the evil in dying cause I slipped in the shower, or the evil in crushing your toes cause I’m heavy and inattentive and you’re dainty and I accidentally stepped over your feet? At most you could say there’s evil in natural disasters, but the world was going from A to B, we just didn’t know our world enough and suffered because of it (and that’s why now we have seismology!), for instance, but since when does nature have conscience? The world, compared to a garden with no danger no fear like Paradise, is evidently chaotic, but does that mean it’s “flawed” or just the only way things could work the way God designed the universe? So, at most I’ll accept some disagreement with the fact that God put us in a place that’s chaotic, but haven’t we risen to the task of understanding and using the universe to our whims? They put a man on the moon!
On the other hand, however, is everything that’s man-made. All the evils, from starvation to genocide, from greed to rape, this is all the result of misguided free will. And God teaches us (by the pen, so read) on what we should do to control it/us. You can’t possibly put that on God, unless you wanted us to be basically sims/robots…
That’s certainly one definition of evil, yes
Of course if you believe “God” set all of this in motion and with foreknowledge then even those seemingly random events have god’s intent behind them, yes?
That’s basically the Euthyphro dilemma.
I meant, of course everything depends on which version of what you consider. This reasoning also works if we have a different version of what God, or good or humans are.
Or a different definition of “problem”.
Kolanaki@pawb.social 10 months ago
That’s basically what the church will say when asking questions along this line.
“His intentions are simply beyond our comprehension.”
While at the same time saying he has the same morals we should uphold.