How would you run a society?

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• kmoney@lemmy.kmoneyserver.com ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  That’s not too far off what you can do here. www.nationstates.net

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  • SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    First decision is a false dichotomy between wealth equality or having a good GDP.

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    • Lv_InSaNe_vL@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      That’s just how the game is. It’s incredibly simplified. Every issue has a decision for you to make and that decision only impacts 2-4 things. Usually 1-2 positives, and 1-2 negatives.

      It’s a really fun little game but it shouldn’t be used as a replacement for actual policy.

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• PyroNeurosis@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Do I get a copy of the grading criteria? What marks ‘success’ to our alien overlords?

  It doesn’t matter, cause I’ll still do poorly, but I always want to know the desired ends…

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• djsoren19@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  and if the Aliens like it,

  I think this is the part I would become obsessed with; trying to figure out what the Aliens actually want. I’m confident that at our current technological level, we could automate a society that supports a million people. I’d start with accomplishing that, and then spend the rest of the time trying to develop a perfect piece of performance art including all million members to try and please the Aliens.

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  • Kookie215@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Your humans can procreate so in 1,000 years there will at least a few 100 million, provided you don’t wipe them out with a flood or whatever.

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• libra00@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Fully automated luxury gay space communism for everyone!

  Stipulations Seriously though, my goal would be to build a society that exists for and is utterly committed to providing for the needs of all of its citizens. All else is secondary. The rule is simple: have a pulse? Congratulations, you’ve won a lifetime supply of all the clean air, healthy food, pure water, sturdy and comfortable housing, quality education, and top-tier healthcare you need to live a long, comfortable life in which you can pursue whatever you’re passionate about.

  Aside from teaching skills and such, education would also convey the importance of community, cooperation, helping each other, etc to the pursuit of maximizing individual liberty for everyone.

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  • Kookie215@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    This works if everyone is willing to put in the effort to contribute, how do you handle those who are not willing or able to do so? I feel like everyone is probably able to make meaningful contributions to a society in one way or the other, but what about those that just don’t wanna? Do you think the number would be high? I’m not sure.

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    • libra00@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Why do you imagine people wouldn’t contribute? People aren’t only motivated by money - unless I’ve somehow been missing out on getting paid for doing the dishes, cleaning up trash at the park, or helping my friends and neighbors out this whole time. People are so programmed by capitalism to stop any idea that comes into their head that might challenge the status quo and apply the ‘rugged individualism’ bullshit to it until they figure out how it couldn’t possibly work, while failing to realize that humans worked together for thousands of years before capitalism came along and taught us all that we should be thinking of ourselves first, last, and only.

      But also you missed something important here, in the first two words:

      Fully automated luxury gay space communism for everyone!

      What contribution do you imagine is required if automation can meet everyone’s needs? This isn’t the real world, we’ve got goddamned aliens in space ships flying around, there’s no reason to believe someone with that level of technology couldn’t automate away literally everything. And even if that wasn’t the case, the point of the bit I said about education was explicitly to deprogram people who are still hung up on capitalism’s ‘fuck you I got mine’ attitude, if that’s required (the prompt said nothing about where these people come from, what their preconceived notions are, etc, so I was covering all bases.)

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    • brendansimms@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Sci-fi writer Ursula Leguin wrote a book about an anarcho-syndicalistic society called The Dispossessed. In that book, those who ‘opted out’ of this society were barred from enjoying the fruits of the collective labor but could still live on the outskirts and start their own subsistence farm or whatever. Societal control in that story was basically maintained through personal relationships among the community (shame those who don’t want to contribute) whereas the capitalistic society control method is threaten with death by restricting access to resources (home,food,water,etc). I’m not saying public shaming is the best route, but it’s still more humane than work or die.

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• agent_nycto@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I think a lot of this hinges on what the one million humans are like. You said in another comment you were thinking of them to be mind blanked, but wasn’t sure.

  So do these people have their memories? Are they from our earth? Do I get to pick and choose who I can take there? Are they clones or the original?

  This can really change what the answer would be and how someone would go about answering your question.

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  • Kookie215@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    All natural resources we have now on Earth are available on New Earth but they are all raw as humans haven’t touched them yet. Same goes for animals, the ones that are extint strictly due to humans are back, but the ones that exist strictly because of human intervention don’t exist (sorry that means most dogs!) The state of the human mind is tricky, importing current humans with their memories is problematic for tons of reasons, so I think it would be better to program them all with like basic knowledge and beginner traits the way you would a Sim.

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    • agent_nycto@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Oh man that’ll be rough, a lot of tech we have is because we have tech from the past. So it’ll be kinda like a Dr Stone situation but without the obnoxious main character.

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• 0x01@lemmy.ml ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Hmm not going to lie I don’t trust humans to be qualified self-governing at scale, brains are too small and empathy is too weak.

  Big brother surveillance sucks, but is probably one of the most effective ways to mitigate crime. Power begets corruption so it’s essential to limit any one person’s power, to that effect a monthly empathy and compassion test should be mandatory for any person in a position of power. Obviously the test itself is the weak point so you need some sort of balanced system of administration and auditing, one group has only the power to judge, the other has only the power to judge the judges etc. Perhaps some sort of distributed dao style voting system, in which voting is mandatory, you cannot purchase anything without performing your duty of voting.

  Ai is imperfect but it’s fairly safe to assume that 1000 years of progress fine tuning the current technology would lead to a reasonable system that could be relied upon as a final arbiter for decisions that humans fail to form a consensus on. A “supreme court” of sorts. Important with such a broad timeline that the ai system can only be used after the death of the last person to work on it. So you literally cannot personally benefit from corruption, and income of officials would be strictly monitored, anything unreported would be assumed to be corruption and the position would be lost.

  Prison is ineffective, punishment in general is ineffective, so some alternative needs to be established. Since we’re all meaty human flesh machines, there’s not an awful lot of options, perhaps an option to move off-planet if a crime is committed, with a system of working their way back to a main colony.

  Work as established is dystopian, I think the focus should be on creating automations, mandatory work should be limited to something like 1 week a month.

  There’s a lot more I think, in general hedging against common human corruptions would be the gameplan. Humans will self destruct given enough time and there’s just not much you can do about it

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• AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Accept that there’s going to be political diversity and social change (for better and worse), and try to create an overarching framework to channel it into something other than violent conflict. One idea:

  Let societies do whatever they want, but institute a “risk mitigation’ tax (or other form of resource redistribution) based on size and similarity: if a social strategy is popular and widely adopted, it’s taxed at a marginally increasing rate until it reaches an equilibrium level; and the revenue is used to fund more experimental social strategies. This flips the historical dynamic on its head: instead of each society trying to forcibly convert the rest of the world to its own system, each society has an interest in discouraging others from following its example.

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• Afflictedlife@lemmy.ml ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Anarco-collectivist solarpunk hobbit earth go! Means of production divided into small towns where you can have all your needs met while having the opportunity to produce vital products for the collective. Solar and wind powered earth sheltered homes each with its own greenhouse and drone powered town farming plots where the crops are determined by online voting. Freedom to use your labor how you’d like and real-time tracking of the collective needs that can be filled. Solar powered lora drone mesh networks that can be deployed to any region to extend connectivity. Philosophically and religiously free to believe anything you like as long as you aren’t trying to undermine or destroy the collective. Completely horizontally organized with all town issues voted on by the town and national issues voted on by the whole collective. Real time no waiting for results or analysis. Broad goals to eliminate most of human labor and automate for the good of all. Education could be handled with hybrid online human teachers and specialized teaching ai combined with self directed study. Telemedicine with on site medical and perscribing robots for every town regardless of if a doctor lives there. Art and culture for its own sake, no intellectual property, everything open source and available for anyone to use. Crimes serious enough to warrant punishment handled with ostracization, send you prohibitively far from the collective with a single construction and farming drone and let you live your awful life alone. Start with one test town to make sure it’s self sustaining and then keep adding new towns for each production requirement that arises, probably take a few years to get all million humans settled. I don’t feel the towns would be much larger than 700 people each. I wonder how long before 47% of the population is ostracized… I feel if I am allowed to select like minded humans it would be much less than that.

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  • Lv_InSaNe_vL@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I’m curious on how you reconcile the “towns not much larger than 700 people” and the advanced automation you have in your world.

    Drones, computers, or any of the 15 layers you need to support any “network” need significantly more people than groups of 700 to manufacture.

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    • Afflictedlife@lemmy.ml ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      So you have a supply chain now. Very centralized, mostly for control and property reasons yeah? Found out how we don’t really need to work in the offices over covid yeah? So one town they mine, or harvest some natural resource that’s the main production at that town apart from the personal food production and culture and art, you want to mine or whatever you move there. Nearby is another town, all they do is process the stuff the other town mines/gathers and prepare it for shipment, if that seems like a nice job to you you move there now it starts getting more complicated. for every step in the supply chain between towns that are too far away to retrieve the resources you build a town that just moves things from one town to another. We have 1428.5 towns to build. Do you think that is enough to start a decentralized society? How about after 19 years and everybody’s hookups have borne a new generation of townsfolk? How complex could our infrastructure become after 2 generations? How many more towns from your great grandkids? I live a thousand years, that’s only what? oldest grandkids turning 18 like 38 years? And I have the internet and all the tech currently available? Look what the Chinese peasants did in 75 years after a bloody revolution. I don’t even have to murder anyone these aliens apparently gave me copies of people who are willing to go along with this little experiment. It won’t take many of my thousand years for my collective to cover the planet with very content small groups of people building one piece of a puzzle that when completed benefits them all. I mean china just ran a marathon with bipedal robots and I saw someplace else someone is teaching them hand to hand combat I don’t think we would have trouble improving on that to automate away most of the manual labor in say 100 years. Sure it would be pretty subsistence at first when we are settling the first million and coordinating the supply chain, the first generation will probably be mostly building towns and farming in places their children will possibly be able to utilize but it snowballs quickly considering how many years I’m managing this thing

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  • Kookie215@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Oh the like-minded thing gives me a dilemma because ideally I would want them to be blank-minded and be taught by you from scratch, but that doesn’t really work for adult humans they have to have a basic level of intelligence, otherwise it would take years and years just to teach them how to properly human the way it takes babies. We can’t start them all as babies. Hmmm.

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    • Afflictedlife@lemmy.ml ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Yes if I was raising clone babies there would be zero percent chance of establishing a civilization in my lifetime

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• whaleross@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  First steps would be to create a religion with all the usual “be kind and caring and patient and forgiving and nice in general to others and yourself” and then “do not be an asshole unless the others were an asshole first and then you may respond in moderation with an appropriate pinch of extra salt” and the ritual of an Aztec pyramid with slice and dice and flush them down the sewage sacrifice of any billionaires and power hungry totalitarians and corrupt public servants. Every year that do not require any sacrifice pleases the gods. But any year it is needed, the gods are content that required action was taken.

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  • Kookie215@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Do you think you would make yourself God? Because you can pop in and out as you please, it would be very easy to convince the populace that you are all-powerful and all-knowing.

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    • whaleross@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I’d prefer not to. I’d like to make it Buddhist philosophy inspired non-religion if possible. But people seem to have this need of something to gather around and have rituals and festivities and believe in so religion is still useful. I’m thinking it would be easier to get everybody pulling together early on in a theocracy though the deep teaching aims to dissolve itself.

      The teachings would promote (or demand) something of an egalitarian society with food and shelter and healthcare for everybody and encourage learning and education and culture and arts and own responsibility and critique and discussion and questioning the whole shebang in orderly fashion with ongoing goals of improving it for everybody.

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• Xaphanos@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I’d aim for Annares as a model. From 'The Dispossessed". Syndicalism/Anarchism.

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• FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I’d hit the red button and end it all.

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• adespoton@lemmy.ca ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I wouldn’t. I’d set up at least four groups and let them run autonomously from each other. I might not even let them know that there’s other groups on the planet.

  More chance of survival if there’s different groups trying different things. Strength in diversity.

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• Kolanaki@pawb.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  If I get some kind of SimCity interface to run it, I think Id do pretty okay.

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• edgemaster72@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  The same way I do everything: poorly.

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  • Kookie215@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Oh for sure, I am jacking up at least the first 500 years.

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    • edgemaster72@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I hope your perception of time is greatly accelerated in that case, I know I couldn’t stand 500 years of failure, I’d off myself way way WAAAYYY before that.

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• stinerman@midwest.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  There’s a song about it.

  And I wanna conquer the world Give all the idiots a brand new religion Put an end to poverty, uncleanliness, and toil Promote equality in all of my decisions I want to conquer the world Expose the culprits and feed 'em to the children Do away with air pollution, and then I’ll save the whales We’ll have peace on Earth and global communion

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• 2006liner@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  [deleted]

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  • Kookie215@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    No. You were abducted alone. You can still contact people via the internet if you want, but good luck convincing them to believe you.

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